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  • Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

    Hi I just wanted to share a very powerful exchange between a Ex Imagineer and a current imagineer on the Re-Imagineering website. This is pretty powerful and worth a read. The interesting exchange starts with a post from a anonymous ex imagineer who is responding to todays big post about what most of the current creative imagineers have to say about this TSI pirates replacement (most are very unhappy).

    Anonymous said...
    I love Tom Sawyer's Island, and as a former Imagineer I bemoan what has happened to it.
    That said, I understand the fiscal reasons for the need for a change.
    Look all you "I know what's best for Disney" types - and that especially includes those current Imagineers playing politics and leaking stuff to the press (P.S. Those that are should be fired but that would probably include a couple of long time VP's!) - Tom Sawyer's Island has long been known as the easiest opportunity for lawyers. Hence the reason so much of it is closed down. And only WDI is to blame for the burning cabin.
    Everyone needs to recognize that times have changed and WDI Imagineers along with some of the "Disney fans" stuck in the past need to realize it too.
    Yes, it is about money. So, let's just accept that fact and make it into a terrific attraction again. One it has not been for some time. Oh, and this is for current Imagineers, kindly check all your political correctness at the door. Your inability to come up with plausible alternatives slowly led to this fate.
    And now for the powerful reply by one of the current imagineers who is a contributor to the re-imagineering site.

    6:36 PM
    Mr Banks said...

    To above anonymous: The very use of the word "leak" is very telling. The legacy of the Disney Company for years was to announce blue sky projects to the public often years in advance, whether they came to fruition or not. Garnering excitement over the never realized Edison Square or putting up signs around the Haunted Mansion well before Imagineers got down to business was a marketing coup. (And this is just two examples of hundreds). These announcements weren't "leaked", they were celebrated.

    So someone is clearly embarassed this cynical market driven pirate overlay got out to the public and for good reason. The public doesn't appear to be comfortable with the idea. And, of course, the public is always right. Some high level executives SHOULD be embarassed!

    If this idea is a good one (and it's really not) then the person who put the idea out there should be confident and let criticism come their way. If it's a solid and well built concept than no amount of analysis or criticism is going to threaten it. A good idea is a good idea is a good idea.

    As for any witch hunt to fire whoever is responsible for "leaks", I find that concept thoroughly reprehensible. Whoever shared this information obviously cares deeply about the legacy of the Disney Theme Parks and the guest experience and should be running the division. Remember the plaque out front? "Disneyland is your land.."

    Nobody, and nobody, is against a complete overhaul of the area. It's a mess. They just are pushing for consistent theming and a powerful well thought out high quality wow factor.

    A rushed contradictory themed area driven by the whimsy of marketers is dangerous stuff. WDI should be doing everything to stop this trainwreck. Bravo all.

    Lastly, true blue Imagineers have come up with many rescue plans for Tom Sawyer Island. But the Eisner Era didn't want to hear of it. They preferred to let the area rot. And it has.

    And I promise you, WDI would be MORE than happy to bring re-imagine the area if they were only given the chance. What a great challenge!

    Let Imagineers do their job. Given the chance, they could rock your world and show you unexpected wonders beyond your wildest imagination.

    Let these gals and guys show you some worlds that actually inspire movies rather than market them after they've been released.

    And you can banter about how it's really about money, spreadsheets, bottom lines and stock holders. You can go on and on and on about "reality" all you want. But your approach is wholly wrong.

    Put on a Mickey Mouse costume and look into the eyes of the first child that approaches you. You'll realize right away that The Disney Company stands for something much more powerful than profit margins.

    Many at WDI know this. You, however, would like to fire them.

    Very telling.

    7:59 PM
    WELL SAID!

    to view this on your own I suggest first reading the original TSI article on the main page at http://imagineerebirth.blogspot.com/

    The comments can be found at http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blo...07230459026344
    Last edited by CAspace; 10-05-2006, 09:04 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

    ..........you can banter about how it's really about money, spreadsheets, bottom lines and stock holders. You can go on and on and on about "reality" all you want. But your approach is wholly wrong.

    Put on a Mickey Mouse costume and look into the eyes of the first child that approaches you. You'll realize right away that The Disney Company stands for something much more powerful than profit margins.

    Many at WDI know this. You, however, would like to fire them.
    .........
    Incredibly well said.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

      I agree with the ex-Imagineer. If it wasn't about money, a burger combo wouldn't cost $12.

      "So, let's just accept that fact and make it into a terrific attraction again."

      Amen.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

        Originally posted by demento57 View Post
        I agree with the ex-Imagineer. If it wasn't about money, a burger combo wouldn't cost $12.

        "So, let's just accept that fact and make it into a terrific attraction again."

        Amen.
        Perhaps I need to break down some of the main points from the current Imagineers mouth.

        ....Nobody, and nobody, is against a complete overhaul of the area. It's a mess. They just are pushing for consistent theming and a powerful well thought out high quality wow factor...
        ....A rushed contradictory themed area driven by the whimsy of marketers is dangerous stuff. WDI should be doing everything to stop this trainwreck....
        And the grand slam

        And you can banter about how it's really about money, spreadsheets, bottom lines and stock holders. You can go on and on and on about "reality" all you want. But your approach is wholly wrong.

        Put on a Mickey Mouse costume and look into the eyes of the first child that approaches you. You'll realize right away that The Disney Company stands for something much more powerful than profit margins.
        Case closed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

          Originally posted by demento57 View Post
          I agree with the ex-Imagineer. If it wasn't about money, a burger combo wouldn't cost $12.

          "So, let's just accept that fact and make it into a terrific attraction again."

          Amen.
          Six Flags has some pretty cool rides. The burgers are expensive too.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

            Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
            Six Flags has some pretty cool rides. The burgers are expensive too.
            But we're not talking about Six Flags...
            With all the times they've been sold to different companies, I'm pretty sure they never said it wasn't about the money.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

              Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
              Six Flags has some pretty cool rides. The burgers are expensive too.
              And which park company is selling off their properties?

              I'd hate to see DLR go the way of Six Flags. I'm with the current Imagineer, let them make TSI something worth going to again!


              War is over if you want it...

              Peace - Love - Mickey Mouse

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                [quote=CAspace;998552]Perhaps I need to break down some of the main points from the current Imagineers mouth.
                quote]

                Alright, I can see what you guys are saying. However, you can not say that money isn't a factor at all. It's the ex-imagineer's worlds of just accept that is it, and let's make a kick *** attraction that I agree with.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                  Interesting post. Love the arguments.
                  -Jack :geek:
                  Doc Brown had 2 Deloreans!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                    Originally posted by demento57 View Post
                    Alright, I can see what you guys are saying. However, you can not say that money isn't a factor at all. It's the ex-imagineer's worlds of just accept that is it, and let's make a kick *** attraction that I agree with.
                    But the reality is according to those within the inside the creative part of WDI, the idea being proposed is not a kick a## attraction, it is apparently pretty crappy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                      Originally posted by demento57 View Post
                      I agree with the ex-Imagineer. If it wasn't about money, a burger combo wouldn't cost $12.

                      "So, let's just accept that fact and make it into a terrific attraction again."

                      Amen.
                      Does anyone care to guess who this "ex-Imagineer" is?

                      I can think of a few people, myself.

                      Robert Iger should be paying attention. The same thing that happened to Eisner could easily happen to him. He's had a year to shift the course of the company, and most of the same simple-minded bureaucrats are still in charge.

                      By all means, spend some money enhancing the island. But, do it the right way and let the artists make the decisions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                        Originally posted by demento57 View Post
                        Alright, I can see what you guys are saying. However, you can not say that money isn't a factor at all. It's the ex-imagineer's worlds of just accept that is it, and let's make a kick *** attraction that I agree with.
                        Every business is about making money, and it would be foolish to deny that. What is even more foolish is constantly changing what your business focus is in an attempt to make some quick cash. Disneyland has always been a success. Why fix a business model that isn't even remotely near being broken?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                          If theming a ride around a successful product is against the Disney model, how do you explain Fantasyland?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                            Originally posted by demento57 View Post
                            If theming a ride around a successful product is against the Disney model, how do you explain Fantasyland?
                            Once again I must insist on the reading of Designing Disney: Imagineering and the Art of the Show by John Hench. I never said the parks should avoid being connected with the studios or synergy. Sleeping Beauty Castle was named years before Sleeping Beauty was released. Davy Crockett (A HUGE fad of the 1950s) hung out in Frontierland. Davy Crockett though was not all of Frontierland nor did he venture into other lands. Davy was never splashed everywhere in an attempt to sell more skin caps as they were already hot items.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                              Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
                              Once again I must insist on the reading of Designing Disney: Imagineering and the Art of the Show by John Hench. I never said the parks should avoid being connected with the studios or synergy. Sleeping Beauty Castle was named years before Sleeping Beauty was released. Davy Crockett (A HUGE fad of the 1950s) hung out in Frontierland. Davy Crockett though was not all of Frontierland nor did he venture into other lands. Davy was never splashed everywhere in an attempt to sell more skin caps as they were already hot items.
                              I think that one cannot connect Davy Crockett with synergy. Synergy is the attempt to produce more profits by using one business, let's say the theme parks, to promote another business, in this case film and DVD sales. Walt had Davy Crockett in Fronteirland because is was fun to have him there. Already before Disneyland opened, Disney was selling boat loads of Davy Crockett merchandise. I don't think anyone at Disney thought they would sell more just because they had the character walking around. They just thought guests would like it. And they did!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                                Originally posted by JiminyCricketFan View Post
                                Walt had Davy Crockett in Fronteirland because is was fun to have him there. Already before Disneyland opened, Disney was selling boat loads of Davy Crockett merchandise. I don't think anyone at Disney thought they would sell more just because they had the character walking around. They just thought guests would like it. And they did!
                                WHAT? Doing something for the fun of the guests sake without assuring the profit increases or the extra expenses of an additional cast member? That is outrageous!

                                Oh the good ol days of Disneyland, when it was all about the "show" which naturally brought in more money because a good show is going to be recognized by the public. Now it's almost only about the profit margin at the expense of the cast members and the guests.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                                  Originally posted by demento57 View Post
                                  If theming a ride around a successful product is against the Disney model, how do you explain Fantasyland?
                                  Very good corporate marketingspeak. Now think like a creative person. No, I mean a REAL creative person. An artist. Did Shakespeare write "product" or stories? Did Charles Dickens create "product" or did he leave a literary legacy?

                                  You have to think like an artist and recognize that without story, your theme park is not a theme park, but an amusement park. And if your story is weak or non-existent, then so is your attraction.

                                  Disneyland is not like other parks, so to compare it to other parks is pointless. The entire concept of "theme parks" didn't exist before Disneyland did. Disneyland does not have customers, it has Guests. Disneyland does not have rides, it has Attractions. Disneyland does not have employees, it has Cast Members. Think about that phrase a minute. "Cast Members." The entire park is a show. In the term "show business," which word comes first? That's right, the word "show." It isn't called "business show," so emphasizing the business element before the show element is a gigantic waste of time. I'm not interested in what ideas marketing has, other than for marketing. Marketing doesn't run the ship, anymore than the 1st mate runs an actual ship. The captain does. And the captain at Disneyland is the SHOW STORY. Without that, you're dead in the water. Just like this incredibly stupid idea to change Tom Sawyer Island to a pirate island. It messes with too much of the theming of the lands that border the Rivers of America. Might as well put horses in Tomorrowland and spaceships in Critter Country if you're going to mess around with the overall concept of themed lands.

                                  Marketing needs to just shut its trap and follow the Imagineers' lead, or go work for some other studio. Walt didn't ask marketing for movie ideas, and he didn't ask them for Disneyland attraction ideas, and there's a good reason he didn't. IT'S NOT THEIR JOB. Their job is to market the ideas and the creations of the creative people in the company, not come up with their own concepts.

                                  I get so sick and tired of all this corporate political jockeying, and this is a perfect example of some hotshot marketer trying to puff himself and his department up in order to get the key to the executive washroom.
                                  Last edited by Janie; 10-05-2006, 11:08 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                                    Not sure why you quoted me on that one... but you're right :P

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                                      Originally posted by JiminyCricketFan View Post
                                      I think that one cannot connect Davy Crockett with synergy. Synergy is the attempt to produce more profits by using one business, let's say the theme parks, to promote another business, in this case film and DVD sales. Walt had Davy Crockett in Fronteirland because is was fun to have him there. Already before Disneyland opened, Disney was selling boat loads of Davy Crockett merchandise. I don't think anyone at Disney thought they would sell more just because they had the character walking around. They just thought guests would like it. And they did!
                                      The same happened with Zorro, briefly, while that Disney series was a hit on TV. Zorro didn't show up in Frontierland to sell more Zorro goods (although they probably had some on hand, just in case), he showed up because he fit the theming of the land and because his appearance would please the Park Guests. But he showed up in Frontierland because it was right for him to show up there. It would be odd if he showed up in Tomorrowland or Fantasyland.

                                      The problem is that the company is now overcorporatized and unfocused. It's no longer called Walt Disney Productions (which indicates a place where shows are produced), but "The Walt Disney Company," which indicates a giant megacorp, defined by one thing - the pursuit of profit. Walt Disney was not about the pursuit of profit. He was about creating entertainment for families. If the company neglects its core purpose for existence and instead pursues a general concept of pursuing whatever makes the most money, it may be successful in some of those other ventures, but it will have ceased being about entertainment and will have alienated much of its core audience. If that doesn't matter to them, then they need to change the name from "The Walt Disney Company" to something else, like "WDC Systems" or "Synergy Inc." because to base your corporate concept around anything but the philosophy of the man whose name your company bears is misleading and disrespectful to his memory.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Re: Powerfull exchange between Ex Imagineer and Current Imagineer.

                                        Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
                                        Does anyone care to guess who this "ex-Imagineer" is?

                                        I can think of a few people, myself.

                                        Robert Iger should be paying attention. The same thing that happened to Eisner could easily happen to him. He's had a year to shift the course of the company, and most of the same simple-minded bureaucrats are still in charge.

                                        By all means, spend some money enhancing the island. But, do it the right way and let the artists make the decisions.
                                        I agree - very well said. Hopefully all the press, and Guest reactions theyre reading across the web relating to the news of the TSI change will help steer the Island make-over in a much more theme-appropriate direction.

                                        People may say that the Island can easily "switch lands" like the Matterhorn did. But -- the Matterhorn never suited the Tomorrowland theme anyway - bobsledding through a Mountain is hardly futuristic - and with the addition of the Abominable Snowman, it was a perfect fit for Fantasyland. But themeatically, the Island is a critical part of Frontierland. And it should remain that way. It isn't, and shouldn't be part of New Orleans Square's Pirates of the Caribbean.

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