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  • #41
    Three words:

    A Bug's Land


    Tell me, what does THAT have to do with the theme?

    But I suppose they can get away with a movie-based attraction in the backlot.












    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by JiminyCricketFan
      Has anyone noticed that Disney has abandoned the "California Adventure" theme by putting in the Monsters Inc. ride? Unless they are saying California is the land of Monsters? :lol: Do you care that the California theme is out the window? Are you happy about it?
      I disagree! If you consider the proximity to Muppets- this whole back area could be considered the "Creature Feature" are of the Hollywood Backlot. If they put emphasis on this like a monster movie production area it really does continue to support the theme.






      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by ah schucks
        I disagree! If you consider the proximity to Muppets- this whole back area could be considered the "Creature Feature" are of the Hollywood Backlot. If they put emphasis on this like a monster movie production area it really does continue to support the theme.
        I think that everyone is missing the obvious point in this discussion. Disney Management is not designing attractions and rides for DCA but is saying, we have a ride that worked in WDW, let's put it in DCA somewhere. We have an older parade that Disneyland used to use, let's put it in DCA. We want to do a Monsters Inc. themed ride, let's put it in DCA. I like the Monster Inc. idea, but it seems a stretch to put it in DCA.

        Doesn't anyone see that Muppets were put in DCA not because it was a California themed ride but that it was cheap, kid themed, and tried-and-tested. One ride out of theme is not going to blow the over-all theme, but if you do that over and over again, then the theme desolves.

        DCA will continue to seem "heartless and carney" if every building gets its own theme. That is how amusement parks used to be themed. Walt was the one who thought that whole "lands" or areas should be themed and rides fit to that theme.

        DCA need to have a central theme and have the rides coordinated and designed for that. Otherwise, DCA will be just the hand-me-down park. With a new guiding, fun, interesting theme, it will feel more like an "Adventure" rather than a hodge-podge of good ideas looking for a theme.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by JiminyCricketFan
          I think that everyone is missing the obvious point in this discussion. Disney Management is not designing attractions and rides for DCA but is saying, we have a ride that worked in WDW, let's put it in DCA somewhere. We have an older parade that Disneyland used to use, let's put it in DCA. We want to do a Monsters Inc. themed ride, let's put it in DCA. I like the Monster Inc. idea, but it seems a stretch to put it in DCA.
          Again if they sat around and said, "Hey we need to promote Monster's Inc and Disneyland is out of room." Then yes it was poorly conceived, but more over they took the time to put it in a movie based area where they can refocus theming and continue to create a "Hollywood" theming area.

          Doesn't anyone see that Muppets were put in DCA not because it was a California themed ride but that it was cheap, kid themed, and tried-and-tested. One ride out of theme is not going to blow the over-all theme, but if you do that over and over again, then the theme desolves.
          So they fact that is a movie based ride about seeing a movie in a movie themed area has nothing to do with the area?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

          PS: Henson Studios is in California! Makes a hellova lot more sense here than in Florida!






          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by ah schucks
            Again if they sat around and said, "Hey we need to promote Monster's Inc and Disneyland is out of room." Then yes it was poorly conceived, but more over they took the time to put it in a movie based area where they can refocus theming and continue to create a "Hollywood" theming area.

            So they fact that is a movie based ride about seeing a movie in a movie themed area has nothing to do with the area?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

            PS: Henson Studios is in California! Makes a hellova lot more sense here than in Florida!
            Actually, DMGM is clearly themed to California. Brown Derby, GMR's facade, the Hollywood gate in front of ToT, etc...

            Anyway, if SSL was a ride built in, say, Paradise Pier, that's where Monsters would be. They didn't take the time to do anything thematically. And you know, if Monsters did show up in Paradise Pier, some apologist would be claiming that old boardwalks frequently had dark rides, blah blah blah.

            Now, if Mike and Sully are portrayed as actors making Monsters Inc, and chase the actress playing Boo throughout a movie set, that might at least be appropriate to HPB. Then again, if they are just actors, they would send their personal assistants, and we would have no ride.

            Again, there are people in this world who don't want to put cartoons in Toon Town because they're the wrong KIND of toons, or they won't put Fantasy toons in Fantasyland because they're laboring under the false impression that Fantasyland is only for European fantasies (someone forgot to tell Dumbo?), but throwing any old movie in HPB is just dandy...

            That's the kind of thinking that is going to keep DCA an unthemed, catch-all, Six Flags park.
            See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
            78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

            "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

            "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

            -- Walt Disney

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by dlfreak
              The entrance into the attraction is through one of the Monsters Inc. protal-doors. Backlots have lots of doors. The entrance door might lead into Monstroplis



              And in regards to Zorro... I posted this a while back....



              Combined with the Mission-like architecture of the Golden Wine Vinery and the the Wharf Area (near the Mission Tortilla factory leading backstage) a Zorro ride would make a great attraction perhaps in a land dedicated to the Mexican and Spanish influences in California's history. Maybe something like El Camino Real leading into the land (with the bells that marked the way (the ones you can see on most of the 101)) in essence the land would be the romanticized idealized vision of the old Spanish west with this E-ticket Zorro ride...

              I think a gentle but exciting ride could be done with Zorro... I think carriage type vehicles would be neat. You're completely surrounded by the carriage (and like a real carriage you can't see what's in front or back) so your vision is limited by what you see through the side windows and this can be how your carrige which was horseless when you boarded gets its horsepower (You hear them being saddled and reigned up front of the carriage)

              Since this would be a relatively gentle E-ticket for the whole family people can seat across from each other and without restraints (think Sunwheel) like they would in a real carriage. You set out on a protected carriage trip to attend the Governor's ball (or somewhere else). The trip begins as a leisure stroll through beautiful Spanish-California near dusk. The you feel the pull of the horses and the tiny bumps in the dirt road as your carriage rolls on.

              You can't see out the front or back but you can hear banditos climb uboard and hear them as they take your carriage hostage. They take you on a harrowing journey leading you over the creekbeds, cliffsides, rickety bridges, dark caves (not sure if this is historically accurate but maybe stop along a railroad track) etc. You see Zorro ride along side the carriage and hear (and feel) as he jumps on board, kicks butt, takes the reigns and guides you safely to your destination. You arrive safely at your destination as the sun is setting over the hill and the black sillhoute of the original masked crusader can be seen as his horse stands on its rear legs.
              I think that would be awesome! I was thinking more along the lines of an indy type ride, but your idea sounds great. You're right about the winery. The first thing that comes to my mind when I see it is the old Zorro series. If money is an issue, Disney should think of the merch it would sell. Zorro was one of Disney's hottest sellers back in the day. The new Zorro film in the fall will renew interest in the character. It really is a great idea.
              Out of the NIGHT....
              When the full moon is BRIGHT!!
              Comes a horseman known as ZORRO!!!
              ---------------------------------------

              Comment


              • #47
                Is it true theirs an attraction at DCA that stars Whoopi Goldberg as the "Queen of California"???? and then Disney wonders why DCA sucks.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by ModHatter
                  Actually, DMGM is clearly themed to California. Brown Derby, GMR's facade, the Hollywood gate in front of ToT, etc...

                  Anyway, if SSL was a ride built in, say, Paradise Pier, that's where Monsters would be. They didn't take the time to do anything thematically. And you know, if Monsters did show up in Paradise Pier, some apologist would be claiming that old boardwalks frequently had dark rides, blah blah blah.

                  Now, if Mike and Sully are portrayed as actors making Monsters Inc, and chase the actress playing Boo throughout a movie set, that might at least be appropriate to HPB. Then again, if they are just actors, they would send their personal assistants, and we would have no ride.

                  Again, there are people in this world who don't want to put cartoons in Toon Town because they're the wrong KIND of toons, or they won't put Fantasy toons in Fantasyland because they're laboring under the false impression that Fantasyland is only for European fantasies (someone forgot to tell Dumbo?), but throwing any old movie in HPB is just dandy...

                  That's the kind of thinking that is going to keep DCA an unthemed, catch-all, Six Flags park.
                  well gee I can't tell when I'm being referenced :B

                  my claims of the Pier are more then just that there's also the oceanic themes and the existing mermaid elements (for my mermaid ride) I would only support Monsters Inc in the Pier if they did a funhouse type deal that was once rumored (because then it would have a good connectiont ot he area around it)

                  yes I do think that different toons belong in different places and artisticaly toontown and fantasyland shouldn't become concentration camps (people expect characters in any Disney park anyways) however I have always hoped for some kind of tie in to make the Monsters Inc attraction MAKE since and I perfer to be optimistic and look for one at least till it's open

                  I have become more nervous about the attraction since I have found that it 's plot now sounds like a rehash of the movies (I'd really hoped it would be origional)

                  I also used to talk about the Great Movie ride being placed in that location all the way up until Monsters Inc moved from rumor to confirmed (at which point I simply tried to look on the bright side)

                  I've also always hated the way they handled A Bugs Land which is why I created this thread http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=1041

                  I'm really not a huge fan of stuffing characters everywere I've always talked about Balance (I once posted about creating balance in things like the Treehouse *which I suggested neutralizing into the Adventureland Treehouse*)

                  I don't think DCA is quite as low as Six Flags (which is bottum of the theming foodchain low pretty much) but it could be alot better (however I fear more for epcot)

                  honestly DCA creates a good atmosphere for "some" of the Pixar characters. this is simply because they all have a nice modern feel to them (not to say that historical things can't be done in DCA quite the contrary they can still do history quite effectivly even if the setting is today)

                  I say Some Pixar characters because I don't think Woody and Buzz fit in at all, however Cars can go on the roads and the Increadibles can go in LA.(http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=271)

                  as for Monsters and Bugs I'd have rather not had them but they're there, in my saving the farm thread I pointed out that Bugs would have been better served if it were themed to being under the farm in a very small section of its own that still has minor overtones of the farm and doesn't destroy the theme

                  Monsters would've been better if they'd had a real san fran area and you entered through a San Fransisco style house or something into a kids bedroom (at least that way it would fit in on the outside)
                  "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    I believe I have heard that Matt Ouimett has wanted to make DCA more about DISNEY'S California Adventure rather than Disney's CALIFORNIA Adventure. I think they realized that having a California park within California just isn't that exciting...

                    Epcot worked because it was such a GENERAL concept for the whole park -- therefore they could stay away from anything that has to do with Disney.

                    IMO, I don't really mind having Disney attractions within DCA --- it just makes sense when it's right across the "street" from Disneyland.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by GeneralShang
                      I believe I have heard that Matt Ouimett has wanted to make DCA more about DISNEY'S California Adventure rather than Disney's CALIFORNIA Adventure. I think they realized that having a California park within California just isn't that exciting...

                      Epcot worked because it was such a GENERAL concept for the whole park -- therefore they could stay away from anything that has to do with Disney.

                      IMO, I don't really mind having Disney attractions within DCA --- it just makes sense when it's right across the "street" from Disneyland.
                      And see, adding Disney magic to the CALIFORNIA adventure would be great. But taking out California, and not putting in any other theme, just makes it the direct-to-video, cheap sequel to Disneyland.

                      If you look at the production values of Epcot, it's still intensely Disney, even though it didn't contain any official Disney franchise characters. Doesn't mean you can't have Disney characters in DCA. Escape to With Mountain I remember being set in California. As we know, 20K begins in California. Zorro, of course. Disney Studios are in California... The state is rich with Disney stories that are actually California adventures. Or could be.
                      See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
                      78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

                      "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

                      "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

                      -- Walt Disney

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        i love the monsters inc. idea... yes it doesn't go with the theme, but you know, a foreign visitor doesnt look at the theme. When I went my first time, I didn't even realise there was themes, I just wanted to ride all the rides as fast as I could, then do them again! I don't think a first time visitor, really care about the themes. it's only us disney fanatics that do...






                        ~ Here you leave today and enter the world of yesterday tomorrow and fantasy
                        ~

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Soulquarian
                          Come on guys, this is Disneyland Resort 2005... Who cares about theme? Let's put cartoon characters everywhere in Disneyland, and turn DCA into Disney Presents A Pixar California Adventure!
                          Sweet. Sign me up for that park. Sounds like a lot of fun.

                          I know you were trying to be sarcastic, but I just can't fault a company for giving its customers what they want.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by GeneralShang
                            I believe I have heard that Matt Ouimett has wanted to make DCA more about DISNEY'S California Adventure rather than Disney's CALIFORNIA Adventure. I think they realized that having a California park within California just isn't that exciting...

                            Epcot worked because it was such a GENERAL concept for the whole park -- therefore they could stay away from anything that has to do with Disney.

                            IMO, I don't really mind having Disney attractions within DCA --- it just makes sense when it's right across the "street" from Disneyland.
                            my point has been that there should be balance

                            I understand ModHatter's want for a park themed totaly to California and history

                            and I understand alot of other peoples want for a park that is more imaginative and incorperates Disney magic

                            my suggestions have been to create a atmosphere of balance and land theme relevence

                            it can be both Disney and California if they're careful and play this right

                            Disney SHOULD seak the middle ground because if you can please MOST people you're doing great (you can't please everyone always but to please a majority is great)

                            you'll find int he middle most people are satisfied

                            it should be DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE

                            I want characters to matcht he lands art and have some sort of decent reason for being in the land or perhaps some sort of magical transferance but there MUST be a tie in

                            no rehashes
                            "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Evan-500
                              i love the monsters inc. idea... yes it doesn't go with the theme, but you know, a foreign visitor doesnt look at the theme. When I went my first time, I didn't even realise there was themes, I just wanted to ride all the rides as fast as I could, then do them again! I don't think a first time visitor, really care about the themes. it's only us disney fanatics that do...
                              I'm a huge fan, but yeah, I find I don't really care about the themes myself. I enjoy the rides because they're fun. And the Monsters Inc idea sounds fun to me.
                              Looking for the truth about giraffes? http://www.menacinggiraffes.blogspot.com/

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                              • #55
                                It's good (great) to have really good rides, but to achieve that "immersion" that Kevin Yee
                                (and others including Imagineers like John Hench) talks about, one really needs some
                                level of cohesion between everything in a particular area. WDI even worked on the
                                transitions. And it's this subtle Immersion that really gives that special "oomph" that
                                makes DL what it is. And if done right, the mind can unconsciously make the necessary
                                gaps from Germany (Pinnochio & Snow White) to England (Peter Pan) or even to
                                the Matterhorn. But without attention to detail, you can do garish things that will
                                bother you without knowing what it is that's unsettling. Ex. put Indy in the middle of
                                Fantasyland.

                                In my opinion, Monsters, Inc kind of works (barely) in HBL mainly because it's a movie, but
                                like Muppet 3D, it's a stretch. Basically, any movie based attraction can go here (although it really is stretch). Thematically, SSL was a nice fit. However, IMHO, Bug's Land doesn't work for me although I understand that it's connected to the Farm area and farms have bugs ... yeah, but so do gardens...

                                IMHO, like others have noted already, it's not the overall concept of DCA that bothers me. It's
                                the execution of the various "lands". Paradise Pier is IMHO is thematically very weak. That
                                whole section where the games are is really "flat" w/ a lot of paint only. A real CA boardwalk
                                (Santa Cruz for example) is actually a lot more 3 dimensional than that. The Farm area is
                                also thematically weak and have very little for guests to do.

                                But enough of the knocks, IMHO, I think Monsters, Inc can work and probably belongs there more than any other part of DCA. I just hope that WDI can do similar magic to what they did with Buzz!

                                Any way, my two cents...

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by dshimel
                                  Sweet. Sign me up for that park. Sounds like a lot of fun.

                                  I know you were trying to be sarcastic, but I just can't fault a company for giving its customers what they want.
                                  If that's what the customers actually wanted, that might be a good idea. But, I have seen TTBAB become a ghost town in short order, Block Party Bash wasn't enough to push DCA attendance anywhere near its goals, and again, the recent rash of cartoony rides that don't have something extra to offer have been tanking at both US flagship parks.
                                  See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
                                  78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

                                  "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

                                  "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

                                  -- Walt Disney

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by ModHatter
                                    If that's what the customers actually wanted, that might be a good idea. But, I have seen TTBAB become a ghost town in short order, Block Party Bash wasn't enough to push DCA attendance anywhere near its goals, and again, the recent rash of cartoony rides that don't have something extra to offer have been tanking at both US flagship parks.
                                    Yes but does your argument doesn't take into account cost? The cost of the animated based projects are far less then an original E-ticket attraction than say POTC or HM...so pull your thinking cap on and step into the mind of a upperlevel planner for WDI and the parks and imagine the pressure to cross-market videos which are a cash cow for Disney and create a ride on a limited budget.

                                    All the would'a / should'a post arm-chair imagineering isn't enough to build a better ride, unless you can build a ride with hollow salty tears from overly pessmistic Disney fans who sit online all day and say more about what the don't like than what they do like...If you build a ride made of tears, I will test it for you!






                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by ah schucks
                                      Yes but does your argument doesn't take into account cost? The cost of the animated based projects are far less then an original E-ticket attraction than say POTC or HM...so pull your thinking cap on and step into the mind of a upperlevel planner for WDI and the parks and imagine the pressure to cross-market videos which are a cash cow for Disney and create a ride on a limited budget.

                                      All the would'a / should'a post arm-chair imagineering isn't enough to build a better ride, unless you can build a ride with hollow salty tears from overly pessmistic Disney fans who sit online all day and say more about what the don't like than what they do like...If you build a ride made of tears, I will test it for you!
                                      Right, so we should just accept crap because it's all we're gonna get? Sorry, no, poor management will lead to poor attendance, which will lead to more cheap attractions, which will lead to more poor attendace, etc.

                                      There's a wise old addage. You have to spend money to make money. Think of all the money Disney could have saved if they'd simply built a better ride than SSL. We're not talking E ticket here, we're just talking about a more appealing, less "edgy" show to go along with the ride. Think of all the millions saved if management had built a better Tomorrowland, a better Pooh.

                                      Finally... from everything we have been told, officially and unofficially, abotu rides line Monsters, there's nothing to be overly pessimistic about. Realistic, sure. But somehow, when people actually form opinions based on knowledge of the overlay and of the ride receiving the overlay, and those opinions are not enthusiastic, some people have to resort to namecalling, and one of the favorite names they pick is "pessimist." Which is interesting... we can't judge a ride we don't know, but judging people we don't know is A-OK.
                                      See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
                                      78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

                                      "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

                                      "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

                                      -- Walt Disney

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by ModHatter
                                        Right, so we should just accept crap because it's all we're gonna get? Sorry, no, poor management will lead to poor attendance, which will lead to more cheap attractions, which will lead to more poor attendace, etc.
                                        Then write to Disney, what you telling me for? I don't control it! Invest in stock, get a job for WDI- venting produces a few posistive neurons upstairs that you could just as easily get from a cup of coffee or a cigerette...go do something if you think its crap, sharing it with us isn't going to fix it.

                                        There's a wise old addage. You have to spend money to make money. Think of all the money Disney could have saved if they'd simply built a better ride than SSL. We're not talking E ticket here, we're just talking about a more appealing, less "edgy" show to go along with the ride. Think of all the millions saved if management had built a better Tomorrowland, a better Pooh.
                                        Its much easier to spend money like its growing on trees and far easier when its not your own. Disney is a carefully balanced company not all financial decessions are independent of another branch of the company.

                                        Finally... from everything we have been told, officially and unofficially, abotu rides line Monsters, there's nothing to be overly pessimistic about. Realistic, sure. But somehow, when people actually form opinions based on knowledge of the overlay and of the ride receiving the overlay, and those opinions are not enthusiastic, some people have to resort to namecalling, and one of the favorite names they pick is "pessimist." Which is interesting... we can't judge a ride we don't know, but judging people we don't know is A-OK.
                                        You looked at the ride and the concept and you said it won't be good---the opposite of good is bad. Bad is usually associated with pessimism. Thats fine.






                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by ah schucks
                                          Then write to Disney, what you telling me for? I don't control it! Invest in stock, get a job for WDI- venting produces a few posistive neurons upstairs that you could just as easily get from a cup of coffee or a cigerette...go do something if you think its crap, sharing it with us isn't going to fix it.


                                          Its much easier to spend money like its growing on trees and far easier when its not your own. Disney is a carefully balanced company not all financial decessions are independent of another branch of the company.

                                          You looked at the ride and the concept and you said it won't be good---the opposite of good is bad. Bad is usually associated with pessimism. Thats fine.
                                          What am I doing telling the board for? Because it is a board, not just you... It's called a discussion board. I'm here to discuss. Not a tough concept.

                                          Yes, I looked at the old SSL ride, and adding a Monsters overlay... caring for neither of those two elements, I reasoned that I wouldn't like the SSL/Monsters ride. One person's use of reason, leading to a lack of optimism, isn't pessimism. The world simply isn't that black and white.
                                          See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
                                          78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

                                          "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

                                          "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

                                          -- Walt Disney

                                          Comment

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