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  • aashee
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Originally posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    This could be dangerous...and potentially messy.
    We didn't say the dreams were wet.

    Leave a comment:


  • fo'c's'le swab
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Originally posted by Bigbadwolf View Post
    yes i think synegy to movie would be great for frontier land espesilly zorro:yea:
    I've never really associated Zorro with the American frontier very strongly. But a lot of people seem to like this idea. I'd support it, since theme is not violated by its inclusion, but I'd rather see a different, more uniquely 'American' option explored. Could potentially be a popular franchise, however--a lot of possibility (though I doubt Disney still owns rights).

    Leave a comment:


  • fo'c's'le swab
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
    Long live PL's dreams!!!
    This could be dangerous...and potentially messy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bigbadwolf
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    yes i think synegy to movie would be great for frontier land espesilly zorro:yea:

    Leave a comment:


  • Goofy Daddy
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Originally posted by aashee View Post
    Dreams are welcome PL68. Eventually they will realize what they missed out on by not giving TLC to Frontierland. Either way, tomorrowland will get the attention, pirates and whatever movie is hot then will get the add-ons and Frontierland will be left alone growing more stale with each passing year.

    Sad but you can see it coming.

    Chad
    Now you have made me depressed.

    I'm going to go eat worms.

    Long live PL's dreams!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • aashee
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Dreams are welcome PL68. Eventually they will realize what they missed out on by not giving TLC to Frontierland. Either way, tomorrowland will get the attention, pirates and whatever movie is hot then will get the add-ons and Frontierland will be left alone growing more stale with each passing year.

    Sad but you can see it coming.

    Chad

    Leave a comment:


  • Pirate Lover 68
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Great points everyone. I do agree that synergy taken to an extreme (pirates in every corner of the park) kills the effect and plays out what fun could have been found in it. Of course, any synergistic move that would effect Frontierland has precious little space to caplitalize on in the first place.

    As to WHAT aspect of "western expansion" do you highlight? Well, I think your best bet IS the wild west for the main reason that it's the most recognizable. I do think a ride based on western myths could be fun...Paul Bunyan (sp?), Pecos Bill...etc. Could make a great dark ride. Of course, chances are this would be based on an animated feature and then Swab would be up in arms that they added a cartoon to Frontierland...lol

    Alas, MY desire would be that they would come up with a GREAT origional idea for a ride, perhaps one that has an interesting character element, and then a few years later, they come up with a great film to feed back into the park again.

    A guy can dream.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zoe Necrosis
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    It saddens me that kids today don't know who Davy Crockett is. I'm only 27, and believe me, I had my coonskin cap and I wore it out.

    This was of course back in the day when the Disney Channel's only original programming was Mousercise and Kids Incorporated. Other than that I was treated to a festival of 30's - 50's cartoons and live action treasures such as Davy Crockett, the Absent Minded Professor, Polyanna, Pete's Dragon, etc.

    Davy Crockett and the River Pirates is still one of my favorite films of all time.

    It's entirely conceivable that Disney could come up with a reinvention of the Western, just as the Pirates trilogy took the swashbuckling epic and infused a supernatural bent. But it would have to be a heck of a lot more watchable than Shanghai Noon. Axion the first: no Owen Wilson please.

    Maybe Johnny Depp will come up with some kind of gunslinging outlaw character they can build an empire upon. He could base it on a cross between Jimmy Page and Elmer Fudd. (Actually, he's already done a western, a not-for-kids picture called Dead Man which is my number one favorite film of all time. But it's dark and existential and not Disney.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Goofy Daddy
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    I'm in this a bit late but here goes...

    Great topic PL! I quoted you above to mention that I half agree with that point. I do indeed think that synergy is a good thing and that originally synergy helped DL become the amazing dream-magic theme park that it became. HOWEVER, synergy has to stay fresh and diverse or it turns into pedantic over kill. The synergy of the early park was great and it also included a vast array of things.

    Today what some call synergy I see as one tracked over kill. Pirates are popular so put pirates EVERYWHERE!! Pirate merchandise in Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, ect...

    I also agree with what many have said, that movies are not needed to create new rides and attractions but it appears Disney has gotten "gun shy" about actually green lighting a really original ideas. Even some things that are not movie inspired are rides/attractions from other parks (WDW) but renamed.

    In my opinion synergy is only good if real imagination is involved as one of the forces that is to be combined with other things to create something.

    Leave a comment:


  • aashee
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    I'll always think of Frontierland as the Wild West.

    Leave a comment:


  • fo'c's'le swab
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Since Walt Disney's Westward Expansion theme has been all but gutted, which direction do we turn to represent the 'new' Frontierland? While the original purpose of the Land was to explore the many dimensions of the 'American Frontier', from the civilized, to the settled, to the wild and primitive, we see little left nowadays. TSI has been replaced, it's representation of Missouri in the settled 'West' gone. 'F!' plays nightly on the serene RoA nightly (seasonally), up to three times, infringing upon the Mark Twain's rightful thematic territory. The civilized Port of New Orleans, where one could board a boat for Galveston in the Wild West is now a buccaneer's dream. The Wild West saloon doesn't even serve sasparilla, and the Mercantile Store? They sell Mickey plushes. Indian Village? Adios.

    So if Frontierland is being distilled down to its bare essence, what should that essence be? The Wild West? The Deep South? The Gold Rush? The Frontier Border states (Missouri, Arkansas, etc.)? Indian Territories? Since the many complex identities of Frontierland seem to be disappearing, in favor of a more narrow view of the 'Frontier', what should represent it?

    Leave a comment:


  • techskip
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Is it that management doesn't realize it... or is it that they do not care?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sambo
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Originally posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    ...The problem is that Disney execs have no faith in original ideas...

    I think you have pointed out the elephant in the room. This was best exemplified by Pressler whose cost cutting measures nearly bottomed Disneyland out. His recent experience at the GAP where he let all the creative original thinkers go only to then not have anyone left to grasp new merchandise trends/ideas further illustrate this.

    There is nothing at all wrong with being a bean-counter. But when that is your only talent, you shouldn't be in a position to "manage" the creative staff.

    Simply put:

    The creative, original thinkers need to be running Imagineering and turning out new concepts and ideas, not being told "here is what I want based on this other thing, and it can only cost this much."

    The bean-counters and I include the Management structure in this, need to find the funding and appropriate (and appropriately paid) staff to make it happen. If they can't do that - they need to be let go (Is the GAP hiring?).

    The lawyers should be finding out how to make these things happen within the laws and not be the roadblock to creativity because the perceived (not actual) risk is in their overpaid opinion - too high.

    The Disney leadership needs a severe wake-up-call and reality-check.

    I would love to see Frontierland based on westerns again...

    Leave a comment:


  • Barbossa
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Originally posted by Pirate Lover 68 View Post
    Regarding tie ins, I would even say that if Disney made a western, they wouldn't even have to create a ride to exploit it, the land itself could have merchandise and even a show to take advantage of the film.
    There is one western Disney made in the last 10 years that was pretty good, ok it was under the Touchstone label: Shanghai Noon

    Leave a comment:


  • techskip
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Originally posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    Original merchandise used to be a big part of the individual identity of each Land. I would love to see a new line of Frontierland specific items offered only in Frontierland. I realize that commerce is fueled by convenience these days, but generic merchandising is leaving us with one uniform, boring retail experience, IMO.
    That is a steller idea. Now all we need to do is make a movie about a guy who buys nothing but western clothing in the western themed area of a theme park. Of course it will have to be CGI so we can incorporate Pixar into it somehow.

    Leave a comment:


  • Esdeebee
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    I've recently finished two bios of Disney, the Gabler and the Barrier ones, and it seemed to me that Walt himself pointed to "content" as the key for the theme parks' success. And it also seemed that most of the attractions came from cartoons and movies (except for the ones coming from the exhibitions at the World's Fair in 1964). I know that Pirates is supposedly an original as it doesn't come from a Disney film, but I seem to recall mention of Erroll Flynn's swashbuckling films (which I've never seen) when the books were discussing the development of the POTC attraction. Is this observation incorrect?

    As far as westerns go, I too like the genre, the old John Wayne vehicles and High Noon were great, and I really enjoyed Silverado and Tombstone (two mentioned in other posts), but they weren't exactly mega hits if I recall. (Tombstone might have been the bigger of the two.) That said, everyone I've talked to who's seen either (or both) liked them a lot...

    Leave a comment:


  • DisneyMickey
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Why don't they come up with something new and original for Forntierland? No Pirates, no High School Musical, or Pixar. There are plenty of ideas they could come up with.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pirate Lover 68
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Originally posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    Original merchandise used to be a big part of the individual identity of each Land. I would love to see a new line of Frontierland specific items offered only in Frontierland. I realize that commerce is fueled by convenience these days, but generic merchandising is leaving us with one uniform, boring retail experience, IMO.
    Completely agree with you... I have seen threads and commented on them regarding how I miss shopping in the different lands BECAUSE of their differing items that were specific to those lands. While this happens in some ways (Indy stuff in Adventureland, Princess stuff in Fantasyland) it's not nearly as unique experience as it used to be. That being said, I know that some items were simply TOO unique and folks didn't see the way that the purchase tied into their Disney experience, so the sales probably weren't what they could have been.

    There HAS to be a happy medium on this matter though, don't you think? I remember buying a "flintlock" as a kid outside of Pirates and I ALWAYS knew where I got that from.

    Leave a comment:


  • fo'c's'le swab
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Originally posted by Pirate Lover 68 View Post
    Regarding tie ins, I would even say that if Disney made a western, they wouldn't even have to create a ride to exploit it, the land itself could have merchandise and even a show to take advantage of the film.
    Original merchandise used to be a big part of the individual identity of each Land. I would love to see a new line of Frontierland specific items offered only in Frontierland. I realize that commerce is fueled by convenience these days, but generic merchandising is leaving us with one uniform, boring retail experience, IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pirate Lover 68
    replied
    Re: Frontierland needs Synergy...

    Regarding tie ins, I would even say that if Disney made a western, they wouldn't even have to create a ride to exploit it, the land itself could have merchandise and even a show to take advantage of the film.

    Leave a comment:

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