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  • #21
    No offense to your idea, but Narnia isn't disney status and it would suck big time.
    Cosmo Kramer: Well I can't go back to the public courses now! I can't! I WON'T!

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    • #22
      Originally posted by tonyrr1
      Respecting your allegory comment... while it may be true that the Narnia novels were such (and CS Lewis was a very prolific writer on Christianity following his conversion from atheism), "The Lord of the Rings" could hardly be classified as such. As a matter of fact, Dr. Tolkien loathed the idea of his works being considered as allegorical in any respect. While someone with religious leanings might be tempted to characterize certain themes in the works as indicative of Christian tenets and virtues, that was not Tolkien's intent, and throughout the books there are no direct references to any kind of religious observances (though, as you allude to, Tolkien was himself a devoted Catholic throughout his life). About the only thing that stands out in that regard to me was the brief mourning scene of Boromir by Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli following Boromir's demise. The writing concerning Middle Earth that does show some semblance of theological groundings is contained in "The Silmarillion" which, among other things, explains Middle Earth's creation myth and the fall of Morgoth through covetousness into evil, similar to the fall of Satan common to the Abraham-centric theologies.

      I know we're here to talk Disney, but I just wanted to straighten that point out. Thank you for indulging me, and let me add that I agree with Kevin Yee's article discussing the lack of original inspiration on the part of the current Disney creative folks who cannot seem to come up with many original ideas outside of a film property. This thread unfortunately drives that point home.
      It is a little off topic, but there are christian themes in LOTR because it draws much from Wagner's Ring Cycle... And you see an end of the age of Magic (and with it those who serve the pagan gods), and the rise of the age of Men (the rise of Christanity)... I think this was on purpose...

      Back on topic: I am very troubled by the decision for Disney to produce the Narnia Chronicles... Not just because it is Christian allagory, which I think they will pull back... I really don't see how they can make all 7 stories work in film form... And is Disney willing to commit to 7 movies? I am telling you, I think they will pull the plug on the project after the two or three... The strongest films are the LW&W, Prince Caspian, Dawn Treader... But when they get to Horse and his Boy, and the Magicians Nephiew, Eisner will be thinking, "Why the hell did I agree to this?"

      To steal a line from Charles Barkeley: "I hope I am wrong... But I doubt it."

      I think you are more likely to see the full the Hitchhiker's Guide Trillogy move into Tomorrowland, if its good... It will be more likely that you will see a Marvin the Paranoid Android walking around... That film series has more potential has more distance... Provided that you don't try and do Mostly Harmless... Which was Mostly Horrid... Eisner has some distance with producing cheap space productions from working on Star Trek... So I am hopeful...
      Check out my other blog:

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      • #23
        again off topic, but Tolkien based a great deal of his writings on myths and legends (mostly celtic) that had nothing to do with christianity. Some of the legends he used, have their core basis in stories that were around before christianity. Tolkien himself stated that his writings were his own version of some of the myths and legends that he loved to study. He also did abhor anyone even remotely referring to his stories as allegorical. I do personally subscribe to the theory that the time period had a hand in his thinking; hitler and the war, even though he categorically denied it his entire life. Just because there is good vs evil does not immediately imply christianity, those themes have been around since the dawn of man.

        As for the rise and fall, that could also imply the end of a more innocent age, and the ushering in of the new mechanized one. Tolkien did state that he was not terribly fond of the modern age, and felt there was more magic in the more innocent bygone times. To me, the entire Sauron thing actually screams this theme, and it has a interesting complication; to preserve what innocence was left, they had to take up some of the root ideas that sauron proposed that of destroying some of the old to make way for the new. Perhaps the age of man was Tolkiens way of saying that we should not be so presumptious to think we are the most important creatures on the planet, after all the ushering in of the age of men all but destroyed the other races that seemed to be put in a better light than ours. Its also sort of telling to me that those other races knew what was going to happen, but they unselfishly helped anyways, and most of the men are portrayed as either selfish or weak.

        ok end of soapbox carry on.
        Last edited by Tigertail777; 02-12-2005, 04:44 PM.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by cellarhound
          Back on topic: I am very troubled by the decision for Disney to produce the Narnia Chronicles... Not just because it is Christian allagory, which I think they will pull back... I really don't see how they can make all 7 stories work in film form... And is Disney willing to commit to 7 movies? I am telling you, I think they will pull the plug on the project after the two or three... The strongest films are the LW&W, Prince Caspian, Dawn Treader... But when they get to Horse and his Boy, and the Magicians Nephiew, Eisner will be thinking, "Why the hell did I agree to this?"...
          OK one person out there interested in the topic... hehe
          Not shooting down the idea that a new property could become classic Disney... Roger Rabbitt, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Lilo and Stich even come to mind...

          But these stories have princes and lions and wizards and all kinds of fantasy characters, and it's such a long series that if the sequels keep coming like they do with Harry Potter, seems to me it's not such a stretch that Disney's new management post Eisner might latch on to their new 'baby' as New Line did with the force majeur of it's LOTR trilogy... and want to celebrate the NEW DISNEY with a new land...

          Remember Eisner's months are numbered.

          OK got yer tomatos ready.... Yesterland purists can go back to pooh poohing the whole thing again guys...

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          • #25
            I loved the Narnia books, but I just don't see how they'd translate the Chronicles into rides. I don't think talking animals would do it; DL is already lousy with talking animals.
            Current hat total: 100 of 100 - completed!

            Duckland
            : Stroll through downtown Duckburg, making sure to tour Scrooge's Money Bin, then cross the Audubon Bay Bridge to St. Canard. Visit Liquidator's Splash Pool, and don't forget a stop by Bushroot Gardens!

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            • #26
              Originally posted by SurfedUpDane
              No offense to your idea, but Narnia isn't disney status and it would suck big time.
              OK so back in January, I was the first to propose "NARNIA" as a new land between Frontierland and Fantasyland... You know the space they're thinking of for WOODY-JESSIELAND ? ? ? ?

              Those of you who watch this weekend's tv premiere of Harry Potter on ABC will catch the new trailer for "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe". It will also become available on AOL and is being seen on more screens this weekend than any movie trailer in history according to the Hwood trade papers. So Disney is going to be PUSHING BIG TIME on this thing, by attracting all the Potterfiles to their new movie property...

              So does everybody still hate my idea? Let me know after you've actually seen some footage from the movie. Then go watch Toy Story Two and a Half or whatever and get back to me.



              CAL
              :o

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              • #27

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                • #28
                  I've been a Big C.S. Lewis fan for more years than I am wililng to admit. I have seen more lame adaptations of "Lion, Witch & Wardrobe" than I care to remember. THIS movie looks wonderful! The mix of live action and CG is very well done. A very good director doesn't hurt, either. Awesome movie And series of books, but would it make a whole land at Disney? Probably not.

                  I'd love to see a dark ride with thrill elements come from this venture. But - what to put in?! If you were to properly tell the whole story you'd end up with a ride time of IASW and POTC combined! I keep having ideas but by the time I get them put on paper, the ride is Way too long and WAY too big.

                  Each book would make a lovely ride - with the exception of The Last Battle, Much too sad.

                  It would be Very hard to fit the themes of betrayal, redemption and resurrection and not have people complain that you are making it too Christian.

                  For that very reason, I'd like to see the ride made from "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader". Lots of action, very distinct seperate acts and a wonderful chance to utilize water coaster technology. One minute you're flying along as Eustace in his Dragon form and the next you are afloat and moving on to the next island. No, it doesn't have to be a scary flume ride like Splash, but the ending of that book just BEGS for a drop of some sort. Yes, I know this is not the book that is being released Now, but Disney has said it plans to release All of the stories.

                  Don't let the Christian element of this story scare you away if you're not of that bent. C.S. Lewis was a wonderful author - this person of an agnostic leaning heartily recommends reading the whole series!


                  War is over if you want it...

                  Peace - Love - Mickey Mouse

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Momzilla59
                    ...THIS movie looks wonderful! The mix of live action and CG is very well done. A very good director doesn't hurt, either. Awesome movie And series of books, but would it make a whole land at Disney? Probably not... Each book would make a lovely ride - with the exception of The Last Battle, Much too sad...
                    Thank goodness I found a CS Lewis fan out there. I too, read the books as a kid and although I cant do a book report on them from memory any more, they were very immersive stories. Like a modern Wizard of Oz.

                    Anyways, if there are so many books and so many characters and so many stories to tell from the series, why do you think "a whole land at Disneyland" is too much? We're talking one major "E" ticket and a meet the characters area, then if there's room for a couple of smaller rides and / or a restaruant or gift shop, we're done.

                    We're talking about a land like CRITTER COUNTRY or TOON TOWN not like Tomorrowland which takes 1/2 the park.

                    After you guys see the trailer, you may think OOOH AHHH.

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                    • #30
                      Narnia is a guarenteed HIT so expect Disney to milk that franchise big time.

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                      • #31
                        I'm sort of suspecting that people who are drawing parallels between the Christian messages in Tolkien and Lewis haven't reread the Narnia books since they were little kids. While the blatant Christian message is not something you notice when you're small and reading a book about the adventures of some children and some talking animals, it really beat me over the head pretty hard as an adult rereading the same books. Tolkien is far more subtle and as somebody else pointed out, he does take a lot of elements of his stories from Celtic folktales that have been around since waaay before Christ. Lewis on the other hand is very much aware that the bulk of his audience is children, so he lays it on pretty thick.

                        While I can understand making a movie that appeals a lot more strongly to people of one given faith - people who don't want to listen to Christian messages can just avoid the movie (and we've seen that if a movie is seen as a good Christian film it can and will make a mint and a half, and that one was seen as too violent for children!) - I think that it's a lot harder to finesse this kind of thing in a theme park that is supposed to be (although it sometimes seems unrealistic at this point) a global tourist destination.

                        I guess, though, that before we make any judgments on the viability of such a scenario, we'll have to see what Disney does with the books. If they somehow manage to quiet down the Christian allegories then maybe this would be a good ride/land. Otherwise, I think it's just begging for controversy. I mean, I know there will be people who will say that Christianity is the majority religion in America just like English is the majority language so of COURSE it's fine and I'm an un-American PC nutjob for even suggesting otherwise - but hey, that's what I do. Disney is trying to make money here and I think that alienating many subsets of the incredibly diverse LA metropolitan area would be a bad thing.

                        That said, thanks to this thread, I'm watching the Apple trailers featurettes on the movie - and it looks freaking great. So, I think my official stance is going to be to wait and see. I'd entrust WETA with my own dreams.

                        Of course, the question of whether we want more pre-established characters and stories at DL is a whole other issue...but sometimes that too seems like it's moving towards moot.

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                        • #32
                          Maybe all this crap should go into DCA.

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                          • #33
                            If they decide to build "E" ticket attractions in the area behind Big Thunder and they aren't "E" ticket attractions in Discovery Bay, I will lay down on the floor and cry. And by "floor," I mean the ground in front of the entrance of whatever it is that isn't Discovery Bay.

                            Now, as for Narnia-Land. When the serious revamping of DCA occurs, making the Hollywood Backlot the jumping off point, all the more movie tie-in stuff that can be crammed in, the better.
                            So full of Disney Magic, my eyes are blue.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Tigertail777
                              again off topic, but Tolkien based a great deal of his writings on myths and legends (mostly celtic) that had nothing to do with christianity. Some of the legends he used, have their core basis in stories that were around before christianity. Tolkien himself stated that his writings were his own version of some of the myths and legends that he loved to study. He also did abhor anyone even remotely referring to his stories as allegorical. I do personally subscribe to the theory that the time period had a hand in his thinking; hitler and the war, even though he categorically denied it his entire life. Just because there is good vs evil does not immediately imply christianity, those themes have been around since the dawn of man.
                              FWIW, Tolkien himself said that TLOTR is "fundamentally religious and Catholic" (Tolkien-A Celebration, Joseph Pearce, page 103). That said, it is very true that it is not an Christian allegory in the sense that the Narnia Chronicles are.

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by mp3piratesavvy

                                No!
                                That sums it up for me too. There are way too many lands in Disneyland as it is at this point. Critter Country? What dreck!

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Gn2Dlnd
                                  If they decide to build "E" ticket attractions in the area behind Big Thunder and they aren't "E" ticket attractions in Discovery Bay, I will lay down on the floor and cry. And by "floor," I mean the ground in front of the entrance of whatever it is that isn't Discovery Bay.

                                  Now, as for Narnia-Land. When the serious revamping of DCA occurs, making the Hollywood Backlot the jumping off point, all the more movie tie-in stuff that can be crammed in, the better.
                                  Well, I honestly don't think Discovery Bay has any real draw to Bob and Mary Smith, 4 kids, living in Aliso Viejo. I'd LOVE to see that, too, but I am resigned to the fact that this concept is dead for Disneyland. There's no real draw to justify that level of expenditure on something quaint and different (and based on Disney designs of yesteryear) but what's the draw to non-MiceChatter types?

                                  Now, before Matt signs off on WOODY JESSIE LAND, I would love to get something a little more highbrow in the works. That was my reason for suggesting this movie property in the first place.

                                  If NARNIA LAND is built, I think it would be mythical and mysterious and cool and more immersive and interesting to people of all ages than another PIXARLAND. Isn't that what Tomorrowland is now?

                                  I say enough Pixar overlays, let's get a few other (new) ideas in there.

                                  Oh and thanks to those of you who had really positive and interesting comments. Even those who arent convinced but at least are willing to engage in an educated conversation about this.

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by EmeralineDragon
                                    I loved the Narnia books, but I just don't see how they'd translate the Chronicles into rides. I don't think talking animals would do it
                                    thats true.Also, the subs are actually one of the most loved attractions. I think thats a good idea, but not in place of the subs.

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                                    • #38
                                      Sorry, putting that garbage in DL would be a definite deal-breaker.

                                      ...and it STILL wouldn't solve the problem of originality. It's definitely not new or original or creative.
                                      Woo. Another bought franchise.

                                      *yawn*
                                      "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill
                                      -
                                      "We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." - Edward R. Murrow
                                      -
                                      "It's far easier to fight for your principles than it is to live up to them." - Adelai Stephenson
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                                      Reason for the Season? Tilt of the planet's axis. Oh, you meant the holiday season? That's easy - Feast of Saturnalia. Disagree? That's nice.

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                                      • #39
                                        The problem I see with this idea is it's not a broad enough Theme for Disneyland to have an entire Land dedicated to it. Sure, you can build countless rides, landscapes and Attractions around the idea but the idea itself is doomed to becoming dated right from the start.

                                        Take the current "Land's" of Disneyland - they are all centered around very wide Themes that allow them to remain timeless and can always grow & be improved. The exception to this is New Orleans Square which can't grow but has two fantastic Attractions (Mansion & Pirates) that represent general Themes so they can be re-invented to meet the demands and needs of a future audiance. For this reason I believe "Discovery" is a suitable brother to the likes of Frontier, Fantasy, Toon's, Tomorrow & Adventure - No matter where you are in the world, these themes are commonly known and always evolving. You can see "Narnia" doesn't really fit this picture. Even so, I do not doubt they will put something Narnia orientated in one of the Disney Parks - the two most appropriate in my mind being the Disney Studios or DCA (on the proviso they dropped California from the name, practically anything would fit in a "Disney's Adventure Park"). If they did put something themed around Narnia in DL, I'd say Fantasy land would be the place for it to go & what do you know, they already have a nice big spot for it where the old Motorboat cruise ran!

                                        The dead end at Critter Country does need to be opened up with something one day when the time is right. I too would love to see a new Land developed and ran beyond the berm from Big Thunder ranch to Critter Country - mind you as they are two of the smallest lands in the Park with the least to offer, both of these Themes could be further explored so they simply link together around the back?
                                        I'm just a bit more than Just Really Nice!

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                                        • #40
                                          Hehehehehehe...*snicker*

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