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  • #21
    Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

    Phase 2 involves a daily submersion of the island by an underwater beast known as the Kraken.

    Phase 3 involves the utilization of hundreds of Captain Jack Sparrows, talking amongst themselves.

    Comment


    • #22
      Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

      Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
      Are you really? Well I meant too old for that ol' island anyways.
      Truthfully, I'm 6'1".

      But I'm really 9 years old.

      Comment


      • #23
        Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

        Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
        BTW, as we've discussed many times, that's flawed logic. If they had put a looping roller coaster on the Island, it would draw WAY more people than PLTSI. So, should that be the next step?

        They're putting a loop in ?

        Sweet!
        :sc:-"Enjoy the rest of your stay here at Disneyland, where all of your dreams come true...well except for two of them, short lines and cheap food.":sc:

        Comment


        • #24
          Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

          Originally posted by sediment View Post
          Phase 2 involves a daily submersion of the island by an underwater beast known as the Kraken.

          Phase 3 involves the utilization of hundreds of Captain Jack Sparrows, talking amongst themselves.

          Sweet! But does the Kraken submerge the double loop coaster that is going in?

          Comment


          • #25
            Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

            Originally posted by boozemyer View Post
            For the record, Im HUGE fan of Steve, his work, and usually find his opinions spot on. Us DLRR nutjobs hold Steve's books on the subject in special reverence.

            But I digress. Back to the subject at hand. Anyone have any tidbits to offer up? One nugget I seem to recall was the possibility of a new showbuilding being built along the backside of the island that would house a more elaborate set of caves, tunnels, etc...
            Steve is by far the most knowlegeable person I know when it comes to the Disneyland RR, trains and railroading in general.

            We just have a difference of opinion about making changes that are geared towards today's generation.

            Comment


            • #26
              Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

              Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
              Sweet! But does the Kraken submerge the double loop coaster that is going in?

              You know... This is how all those other sites come up with those crazy rumors (not that I visit those).

              I'm glad to see we're the ones throwing them off track. Keep up the good work!

              Can't wait for the loop!
              Check out My Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 rides... I'm always working on another one... I hope they make you want to go to Disneyland.

              "Disneyland is the star, everything else is in the supporting role."
              ~Walt Disney~

              Comment


              • #27
                Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
                Oh, I also enjoy dry-rubbed Texas-style ribs. Mmmmmm!

                EDIT: Now you've got me thinking about the ribs you could get at Big Thunder BBQ.
                are there plans on bringing that back??
                OLM!!!
                There is no better park than TDS

                sigpic

                Comment


                • #28
                  Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                  Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                  Steve is by far the most knowledgeable person I know when it comes to the Disneyland RR, trains and railroading in general.

                  We just have a difference of opinion about making changes that are geared towards today's generation.
                  And that is the beauty of MC... a difference of opinion. While we are on this topic I might as well chime in this little tidbit.

                  Even if you change a long standing classic with a current fad, eventually that fad will fad and you will be left with something less popular then the classic it replaced. If, however, you base your decision on enhancing a theme instead of following a fad then you have a greater chance of continued success. You have only to look at things like Pooh, PM and Tarzan to see stunning examples of what happens when the replacement is half a$$ed. Pirates are popular now, what about in four or five years? Please do not misunderstand I am not a purist. I believe the island needed a change, and needed new life. BUT it could easily have been an "Island of Discovery" with the caves possibly containing "buried pirate loot", only recently discovered by the settlers of Fort Wilderness. Simple, well themed, hint of the current Pirate trend, NOT BREAKING THEME.
                  "Happiness is a Low Water Level"

                  sigpic

                  "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                    How about we tie the Frontierland/New Orleans theme together by having actual Tom and Huck actors (youngfaced 18/19 year old guys) FIGHT their imaginary pirates enemies!!!?????

                    In other words, you'd have Tom and Huck who are obviously dressed up (as kids would be, somewhat shabbily) to be pirates, but it's obviously still Tom and Huck with their underlying "Tom n' Huck"y clothes. Then, like in Fantasmic, their imaginations come to life, and the bad guys (enemy pirates) come out to fight them.

                    After all, that's the premise that the WDI guys came up with to justify this whole thing.


                    The best thing ever though is if Tom and Huck get the kids on the island involved in the fight, using nerf swords or something. So the kids imaginations will also run free.

                    Kids love this kind of stuff.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                      Popularity is everything, common sense is nothing.

                      -- PMM

                      "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                        Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                        We just have a difference of opinion about making changes that are geared towards today's generation.
                        I wonder how "relevant" an 1890s Victorian Main Street was to kids in 1955? Or how "relevant" 1860s New Orleans was to the 1967 generation? Or how "relevant" 1830s Missouri was to kids of 1956? Or how "relevant" Edwardian London was to kids of 1992?

                        This argument of "gearing towards today's generation" should have its own logical fallacy assigned to it. It holds no water.

                        What makes an attraction or theme "relevant" lies not only in its appeal to the kiddies. What makes these things work goes far deeper than I think you're willing to explore, touching on myth, archetype and collective unconscious. When we can elevate the discussion to involve these topics, instead of relying on the trite "it's relevant to today's generation," then we may make some headway here.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                          Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
                          I wonder how "relevant" an 1890s Victorian Main Street was to kids in 1955? Or how "relevant" 1860s New Orleans was to the 1967 generation? Or how "relevant" 1830s Missouri was to kids of 1956? Or how "relevant" Edwardian London was to kids of 1992?

                          This argument of "gearing towards today's generation" should have its own logical fallacy assigned to it. It holds no water.

                          What makes an attraction or theme "relevant" lies not only in its appeal to the kiddies. What makes these things work goes far deeper than I think you're willing to explore, touching on myth, archetype and collective unconscious. When we can elevate the discussion to involve these topics, instead of relying on the trite "it's relevant to today's generation," then we may make some headway here.
                          As much as I enjoy this, it begs the question... does Disney even care? Not a "should they" but a "do they"? Because such endeavors, while nice, can be costly and it appears the current company is not willing to invest in the long term, considering they really do not face much competition. They appear to be content to simply 1 up their competitor rather then go for the highest bar possible.
                          "Happiness is a Low Water Level"

                          sigpic

                          "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                            Originally posted by techskip View Post
                            As much as I enjoy this, it begs the question... does Disney even care? Not a "should they" but a "do they"? Because such endeavors, while nice, can be costly and it appears the current company is not willing to invest in the long term, considering they really do not face much competition. They appear to be content to simply 1 up their competitor rather then go for the highest bar possible.
                            Excellent point! For my opinion, I think they used to care about that but the current folks at least APPEAR to only care about useing fads (fads created by Disney productions by the way) to sell tickets and merchandise...long term thematics don't appear to matter as they used to in the past.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                              Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
                              I wonder how "relevant" an 1890s Victorian Main Street was to kids in 1955? Or how "relevant" 1860s New Orleans was to the 1967 generation? Or how "relevant" 1830s Missouri was to kids of 1956? Or how "relevant" Edwardian London was to kids of 1992?

                              This argument of "gearing towards today's generation" should have its own logical fallacy assigned to it. It holds no water.

                              What makes an attraction or theme "relevant" lies not only in its appeal to the kiddies. What makes these things work goes far deeper than I think you're willing to explore, touching on myth, archetype and collective unconscious. When we can elevate the discussion to involve these topics, instead of relying on the trite "it's relevant to today's generation," then we may make some headway here.
                              I'm talking about the run down island being reinvigorated with Disney's biggest movie franchise in decades, which is based on a classic Disneyland attraction.

                              Why do you think Tomorrowland needed an upgrade in the 60s? It was already becoming irrelevant in its appeal and needed to be more relevant for the next generation. Also, in those years, Disneyland was adding new attractions every couple of years in all the lands.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                                Tomorrowland becomes irrelevant because it's supposed to be futuristic. The future is a moving target.
                                Lands of the past never become irrelevant because they are about the past. The past is a static target.

                                Having said that, it's true that technologies that represent the future or past, also become dated and cheesy to newer crowds. But that's a seperate issue from the underlying theme issue. There is nothing wrong with updating and plussing the technology of a ride, regardless of its theme, as long as theme is not violated.

                                Tom Sawyer island did need improvement, but the pirate choice was irrelevant to the theme of Frontierland, and weakened it significantly. At this point, either they need to re-balance the island by adding a lot more Frontierlandy stuff in phase 2 and 3 (no more pirate stuff). OR they need to reassign the island to New Orleans Square and make it full blown Pirate Island.

                                This half-assed hybrid hamfisted synergy theming ain't cutting it.
                                Last edited by idreamofjeani; 10-12-2007, 10:45 AM.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                                  Originally posted by idreamofjeani View Post
                                  Tomorrowland becomes irrelevant because it's supposed to be futuristic.
                                  Interesting comment. It makes you wonder if Buzz was created just for that reason. People will eventually go to the moon, someday there may be a people mover type transportation, autopia is already here.

                                  Makes you wonder if Disney is creating rides that are impossible to come true in the future, just to not have to update.

                                  I don't know what I believe but it's an interesting point idream.

                                  Chad

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                                    Originally posted by idreamofjeani View Post
                                    Tomorrowland becomes irrelevant because it's supposed to be futuristic. The future is a moving target.
                                    Lands of the past never become irrelevant because they are about the past. The past is a static target.
                                    The past, or rather our perception of it, is NEVER static, it's always changing. This can happen lots of ways, but a couple that come to mind right away are that either we learn new information about that era that changes the way we look at it, OR our values shift one way or another and a particular era seems either more or less relevant based on our current state of mind. Take the ways in which we view films about how settlers dealt with tribes native to an area. Films used to depict these tribes as part of the wild landscape, something to be overcome to make the land more "civilized." Frontierland was created during a time when that thinking was the prevailing cultural take. I've covered this ground before in a different thread, but suffice it to say that the past isn't static, it changes with our preception of it.

                                    So how does this impact the arguement of making a theme more relevant to a given generation? Well, I believe that is EXACTLY the question that causes popularity of given areas. We, and I mean that as the cultural we, as in America today... have shifted the way we look back at Small town america, have shifted the way we look at the future, and certainly have changed the way we look back at the "wild west." That isn't to say that the right amount of leverage, applied in precisely the right place... A film can change the way we view...say, PIRATES... or the west. The western was dead (was the common thinking in Hollywood) before Dances with Wolves... then came Unforgiven... it was back, with a post modern twist. Hidalgo, gave us a popular film, and had shades of the old westerns as well as more than a number of shades of our new thinking on how we view the past.

                                    All this is to say, we CAN find ways to invigorate a land, AND still stick to theme, but we need to make BOTH goals part of the equation.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                                      And...in spite of all that... I STILL want to visit the Pirates on TSI and STILL want to know what's happening with the other phases.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                                        When Tom, Huck and Joe ran away, they did runaway to be pirates. I suppose that's something of a seque to the Pirate's Lair.
                                        Crazy Works For Me!

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Re: TSI/Pirates Lair Phases 2 & 3

                                          Originally posted by Pirate Lover 68 View Post
                                          All this is to say, we CAN find ways to invigorate a land, AND still stick to theme, but we need to make BOTH goals part of the equation.
                                          Originally posted by Pirate Lover 68 View Post
                                          And...in spite of all that... I STILL want to visit the Pirates on TSI and STILL want to know what's happening with the other phases.
                                          Doesn't sound like theme is really that important then? As long as the attraction is fun and new? Anxiously awaiting news of yet more thematic violations? Would you be so disposed to accept this theme change if it were NOT a subject matter interesting to you, as Pirates are? Would you be just as forgiving of a 'Princess Island'?

                                          Comment

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