Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

[animagusurreal]

This is a debate that came up in the "Absolute Weight of Theme" thread and I thought it would be an interesting topic for a poll.

Personally, I am currently wavering between Options #1 and #4.

When the park opened, it was definitely Option 1 - on the Opening Day TV special (1955) Bob Cummings clearly states that the land was set in 1986.

I'm fairly certain Tomorrowland '98 was supposed to be Option #3, taking a cue from Disneyland Paris' Discoveryland.

However, this poll is about the current Tommorowland...and I'm not sure

I'm only sure that it's not Option #2 - which is exactly what someone in the other thread was arguing in favor of.

The plaques on the entrance tunnels state:

"HERE YOU LEAVE TODAY AND ENTER THE WORLD OF YESTERDAY, TOMORROW AND FANTASY"

(capitalized because that's how it appears on the plaque - I'm not shouting )

Even if there is debate over what is meant by Tomorrow (as there was in the other thread), "HERE YOU LEAVE TODAY" seems clear to me. If the idea is that in entering Disneyland you leave today, then neither Tomorrowland nor any other land can be set in the present, or at least not the ordinary present that we live in.

[seinfeld5a]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

I think the Imagineers strayed from the original concept of featuring new technologies and things to come because there's so many other venues that can do it too. So, I think they're just happy to tie in movie themes that even remotely remind people of space and the future. Last time I was there, in 2006, they were still doing the introduction in Innovations about the Segway. That's kind of old, don't ya think?

[Junthor]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

Are you Kidding me?



Elvis performs there.....


'nuff said.

[hollywood1939]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

I think that it was supposed to be what people from the past viewed what the future will be (the Jules Verne info). I think it worked for DLP because it is Discoveryland, not Tomorrowland. Besides even with the update it didn't look too futuristic anyways.

[IMAGINE]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

The rethemeing from 98 was a huge dissapointment when I saw it for the first time. I couldn't but keep asking where is the furture in all of this? It looked like Da Vinci was all over the place...

[seinfeld5a]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

Just wondering, is the old Tomorrowland Terrace back? With the old white planter? I loved that!

[MasterGracey]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

The plaques on the entrance tunnels state:

"HERE YOU LEAVE TODAY AND ENTER THE WORLD OF YESTERDAY, TOMORROW AND FANTASY"

(capitalized because that's how it appears on the plaque - I'm not shouting )

Even if there is debate over what is meant by Tomorrow (as there was in the other thread), "HERE YOU LEAVE TODAY" seems clear to me. If the idea is that in entering Disneyland you leave today, then neither Tomorrowland nor any other land can be set in the present, or at least not the ordinary present that we live in.
[/SIZE]

Excellent point about the entry plaque that I failed to acknowledge in the "Absolute Weight" thread.

I think Tomorrowland, up until 1998, was supposed to be the future. Once they went with the 1998 theming, the original intent for the land was muddled and changed. So I want to vote for #1, but I think Tomorrowland in its current state is probably #4.

[thrax]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

at one point TL seemed to be what people imagined the future might look like but now it's just shinny things that look futureistic & movie tie-ins

[rgrant999]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

Excellent point about the entry plaque that I failed to acknowledge in the "Absolute Weight" thread. .

Well, that would be a powerful argument if all the attractions and exhibits in Tomorrowland when that plaque was installed were in the future, but they weren't.

[The International]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

If you believe Tomorrowland occurs in the future then surely you have a problem with the Star Wars attractions as Star Wars takes place "a long, long time ago."

[hobbitfeet]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

I thought of the Star Tours thing, too, but if it is also far, far away, then aren't light years involved? Couldn't the things that happened on, say, Tatooine actually be happening in the future but the time travel has gotten it all messed up?

LOL, just being silly.


So what DID happen in '98? I was still very much in my anti-big-corporation time at that point, and wasn't even *thinking* about DL...

[k_peek_2000]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

Nope, Tomorrowland should be called. "Retroland" not to be confused with Retroville which is the theme park in Jimmy Neutron.

[bfdf55]

[rgrant999]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

Exactly, well said. But what I don't get it is, what is wrong with that?

I don't understand the passion/conviction on the topic - the land had a loose theme (futuristic/progress/tomorrow/space/etc.) and they built great attractions over the years and the loose theme has morphed as needed.

It is a land in a theme park - why does it have to have rules in concrete? It is as if people have a vested interest in there being some biblical themeing structure.

Just enjoy it and go with it and take a ride on the Midget Autopia....

Wait, I mean the Midget Autopia of the Future, Future, Future.....

[bfdf55]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

Exactly, well said. But what I don't get it is, what is wrong with that?

I don't understand the passion/conviction on the topic - the land had a loose theme (futuristic/progress/tomorrow/space/etc.) and they built great attractions over the years and the loose theme has morphed as needed.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with a land that IS held to the theme and immerses you in the environment. It just has to be done properly. In Tomorrowland, that is just very hard to accomplish. They did try to do it with their Tomorrowland 2055 concept from a couple of decades or so ago. Hard to tell how that might have turned out, but it sounded interesting.

[Alchimedes]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

Tomorrowland is done. It's not going to get back on track. I want #1 but unfortunately is rated #4 at this point.

[animagusurreal]

Re: Is Tomorrowland Set In the Future?

I finally voted #4.

Currently, we have some of the Jules Verne theming, which was only half-realized to begin with, mixed in with the white pre-'98 paint scheme - which, even if the very-hard-to-believe idea I've seen proposed that this was done entirely "because white paint is cheaper" is actually true, still makes it feel the way it did pre-'98. The pre-'98 version still had remnants of the '67 "World on the Move" New Tomorrowland, which I believe was still somewhat endeavoring to be a more accurate representation of the future (changing "Flight to the Moon" to "Mission to Mars", for example -another real celestial body, not an imaginary one.)


My point is that the the idea of Disneyland's lands - not just attractions - is to transport you somewhere and sometime other than Anaheim, California on the Planet Earth on our plane of reality in 2007 (or whenever you visit). That "other place" might be a composite of various times and places - the point is to capture the essence of a time and place as it exists in the general human consciousness in a distinctly Disney sort of way, not to literally recreate a specific time and place. But yes, you are supposed to feel like you are actually going to that quintessential Old West town or jungle outpost or fanciful fairy tale village, not just looking at facades that remind you of them. Disneyland was conceived by filmmakers - not amusement park designers - like a movie set, and in most movies, the sets are supposed to be taken for reality by the audience, at least within the context of the movie.


The main reason I'd like to see Tomorrowland themed a little more specifically and extensively is not because the current Tommorowland "breaks the rules," or because it's "what Walt would want," or any of that, but because I think Tommorowland would be a richer experience for it.

I think that the best future for Tommorowland would be for it to become Sci-Fi-land (except keeping the name Tomorrowland, which sounds better ).

The covers of Sci-Fi novels alone should provide enough artistic inspiration for a much more visually compelling and cohesive Tomorrowland.

We don't have to know exactly precisely where we are, but it would be nice to know if we're on Earth or another planet or floating around in an environment-controlled space station.

I believe Tomorowland should have a "city" feel to it, and there should be evidence that futuristic city life goes on there (stuff like the upper-story windows on Main Street or the wagon tracks in Fronteirland).

There are franchises like The Matrix and Futurama which are decidedly set in the future, (Futurama specifically in the year 3000), yet their creators don't seem to be saying "this is literally what the future will look like."

Tomorowland could be like that - set in a future that may never be, but that is definitely not the present. If a specific year is chosen, it should be something far away like the year 3000, so that it won't be expected to come to pass within 31 years like the original Tomorrowland.

I also wouldn't mind if Tomorrowland - like Star Wars and countless other science fiction universes - took place in a futuristic world that is not supposed to be our present or future, that is not supposed to have any relation to the planet Earth at all.

Nor would I mind the "future as seen from the past" idea, which looks pretty good in pictures I've seen of Discoveryland. (Just give it Discoveryland's budget this time - and figure out how to tie in Buzz with that theme! )

I believe that Tomorowland would benefit greatly if Disney at least made up their minds on this.

If it's set in the present, as some say...that would be an interesting choice, considering most of the DCA plans call for removing the present-day theming and replacing it with historical period theming - however, if that's the case, then make it clear. Whatever else might be criticized about the park, it's certainly made clear that the current DCA is set in the present.

(Another thought: Ironically, thematic aberration though the attraction may be, the mural on BLAB finally makes it clear what Space Mountain is supposed to be. Actually, although I like thinking of it as some kind of space station now, it wasn't urgently necessary to know what Space Mountain was supposed to be - because it's just a freakin' awesomely futuristic piece of architecture! )

If you believe Tomorrowland occurs in the future then surely you have a problem with the Star Wars attractions as Star Wars takes place "a long, long time ago."

Surely I do...but yet, amazingly, I don't .

The idea of going on a tourist trip into outer space is definitely futuristic - probably will really happen someday. (Heck, billionaires are already doing it.) In this case our otherworldly destination just happens to be in the Star Wars universe (and that part probably won't happen )

Still, there is nothing on the attraction that screams "this is a phony ride in a theme park in the year 2007!" unlike it's across the street neighbor .

Star Tours immerses you in a futuristic environment the moment you step through the door. If Tommorowland looked more like the queue of Star Tours, I'd be a happy camper . (Of course, I don't mean that it should literally look like queue of Star Tours, but be as immersively futuristic).

Excellent point about the entry plaque

Thanks

Well, that would be a powerful argument if all the attractions and exhibits in Tomorrowland when that plaque was installed were in the future, but they weren't.

By this same logic, would you say that the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit is not actually set in 1947, as indicated by a subtitle at the beginning, because it features a few anachronistic cartoon characters?

I suppose some might argue that that's a movie and doesn't count in a discussion of theme parks. Alrighty then...

Does the fact that there's an exhibit about Disneyland-as-a-Theme-Park and a movie starring Steve Martin in the Main Street Opera House change the idea that Main Street is set at the Turn of the Century? (No, it doesn't.)

Then, I suppose some might argue that Main Street is not actually set at the Turn of the Century, and never was. I would have no response to this type of argument except to say that it's amazing and fascinating how different people can look at the same thing and see something so radically different.

Just curious, Mr. Grant...are you saying the words on those plaques which for decades have been so prominently displayed above the portals through which all guests pass (except guests riding the Monorail, of course ) are actually lies? If so, who in the Disney organization set out to spread those lies? The plaques weren't put there by us Disneyland fans .




On the subject of the original Tomorrowland:

Even originally, Tomorrowland was a mixed bag. It had elements of the future – Mission to the Moon and Autopia (kind of) and Circarama; examples of future products – Hall of Chemistry and Aluminum Hall of Fame; and assorted other attractions that didn’t really connect to anything in particular – Animation Pavilion and 20,000 leagues Under the Sea....

I agree with you.

However, I read that Walt filled the original Tommorowland with sponsors and...well, filler...because he couldn't afford to finish it the way he wanted. Not that he didn't spend the money because he had to increase his profit margin and keep the stockholders happy, but he actually couldn't afford to finish it. The financial situation of Walt Disney Productions and WED in 1955 and the financial situation of The Walt Disney Company today are incredibly different.

The idea, the goal, was still explicitly stated to be transporting the guests to 1986, Even if the original Tomorrowland was unsucessful in doing so (I can't really say as I wasn't born yet ,) that was still the idea.

"And, here in Disneyland, the year is 18...1986, folks, 1986, that's way ahead!"

Not "it has some cool stuff like we might have in 1986", but "the year is...1986." (nearly saying "1886," of course, was a live television flub, like Art Linkletter refering to the Rivers of America as "The Rivers of the World...of America, that is!")




OT -

While looking up the exact year that Roger Rabbit took place (I remembered it was the late 40's) I stumbled across this on IMDB.com:

"The first test audience was comprised mostly of 18-19-year-olds, who hated it. After nearly the entire audience walked out of the screening, Robert Zemeckis, who had final cut, said he wasn't changing a thing."

Go Zemeckis!