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  • iTS a SMaLL WoRLD_
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Yeah, I think that it would be fine if they went either way, stricly an extension of Disneyland with new-age Disney characters or a revamp of California adventures. I'm not so sure of the outcome of a mash-up of the two though. But, hey, it might work.

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  • IMAGINE
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    I think so too...there are plenty of things that can be fun and original in california...well not riding in a limo or anything like that... but there are possibilities. Even then though, I don't mind being able to walk around in Radiator Springs too..

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  • iTS a SMaLL WoRLD_
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Exactly, DCA needs to make its own identity rather than piggybacking on the already known Disneyland themes. I think that the park would be much more respected that way

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  • IMAGINE
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    I think what some people are trying to convey is they what an area/attraction that can become an icon all on its own as Pirates and Mansion did. Which is justifiable and I myself would like. Also from a business standpoint the market today would rather be spoonfed characters than be adventurous in a new endeavour. The people today have no sense of real adventure...

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  • TRADERsam
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    exactly right thats how disney differentiantes itself with other parks

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  • iTS a SMaLL WoRLD_
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Originally posted by bfdf55 View Post

    Paradise Pier is intended to evoke the beach and ocean boardwalk amusement parks of the past. The Disney magic ( when they actually think to take advantage of it) is in the details that they can put into their projects in a manner that emphasizes the quality and essence of something while removing the tacky and cheesy elements of the original.
    The 'Disney Magic', so to speak, is definitely a huge part of it. It's not that DCA is a bad idea, it actually had huge potential to be something great. It's just that it seems as if not enough time went into designing and building it. Whenever I go to Disneyland, I seem to notice something new and unique, but when I go to DCA, it feels as if I've seen it all before. The rides lack the subtle details that make Disneyland so magical.

    That said, the Pier could definitely do with some touch-ups and redos. It needs more detail, and a solid theme. I don't believe that they should stick on Disney characters, though. It would make the theme way to jumbled. Walt didn't make Disneyland so magical by using characters from a different park- he made his own unique place. That's what DCA needs to do. Make it's own identity, but in doing so keep the details that characterizes Disney.

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  • symbolic
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    I cant wait for the Mickey face it will be the greatest nightime photo op in the whole park! Its gonna look awesome!

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  • lazyboy97O
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    When I say outlandish I do not mean in terms of a theme park. A giant Mickey mouse face is not outlandish in the sense I was describing. Outlandish would be an incredibly rich Victorian ornamentation that existed only in a very few, luxury places. It would be all done in the vain out crazy seaside architecture, but to a level only seen in romantic memories and not entirely true to real life.

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  • bfdf55
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    I am revering to an overemphasis on the beach and ocean aspect of a pier. That just is not very realistic to any notion of the pier. The beach may be right there, but it is typically seen as a seperate amusement. Paradise Pier needs outlandish takes on rides and architecture or be done away with in its entirty.

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  • lazyboy97O
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Originally posted by seasnake View Post
    Ok, then what I'm hearing is that people think PP is supposed to be a tribute to the great boardwalks of yore, and there is no Disney character that fits. For example, if there were a disney movie with a frog named Fred who lived under a ferris wheel on a boardwalk, then having Fred-themed boardwalk would be acceptable. As such, it appears none of the classic characters or Toy Story characters seem to fit.
    Thsi si where my point differs. I say that Paradise Pier should be a celebration of seaside amusements, not the seaside. As such it does become a certain thematic no-man's land. But under a strong atmosphere of outlandish architecture and fantastic fun, it could take on a notion very similar to Fantasyland. Therefore, almost every character fits as it is part of an individual attraction based much more on experience and familiarity than linear sotrytelling.

    Edit: I forgot one very important point of character inclusion, style. All characters should be restyled to fit the Victorian, seaside amusements atmosphere; just as Mickey Mouse is being presented in an older incarnation in the new statue.

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  • seasnake
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Ok, then what I'm hearing is that people think PP is supposed to be a tribute to the great boardwalks of yore, and there is no Disney character that fits. For example, if there were a disney movie with a frog named Fred who lived under a ferris wheel on a boardwalk, then having Fred-themed boardwalk would be acceptable. As such, it appears none of the classic characters or Toy Story characters seem to fit.

    My only contention is that adding these things has been done successfully in other parks. Camp Minnie-Mickey in AK has nothing to do with anything, but it works because it's the best place to get character meets/autographs. So, while theme-wise it's a head scratcher it does add value to the area. The Victorian themes will make it look nicer, which I like.

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  • PragmaticIdealist
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Originally posted by IMAGINE View Post
    Ok, I agree... but you feel the use of disney characters to illustrate that point is wrong?
    No, not necessarily... Mickey Mouse, Goofy, and the rest just don't have any relationship to the California coastline.

    For example, instead of Toy Story Midway Mania, why not create a hybrid between a funhouse and midway games that actually takes place in a uniquely Californian "underwater" environment that is filled with marine-life characters, original or otherwise?

    The problem with the concept for the attraction is the fact that the "Toy Story" characters are being forced where they don't belong. The farther Disney strays from the over-arching concept, the weaker the entire presentation becomes, creatively-speaking, and that lack of creativity is the antithesis of all that the Disney name represents, traditionally.

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  • IMAGINE
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Ok, I agree... but you feel the use of disney characters to illustrate that point is wrong?

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  • PragmaticIdealist
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Originally posted by IMAGINE View Post
    I want to chime in, but not getting the overall argument exactly...anybody want to spell it out?
    Basically, my contention is, and always has been, that only imagery related to California's coastline and the Pacific Ocean is germane to the presentation. The amusement zone is incidental, so anything that is done to the Ferris wheel, roller coaster, and the like has to reinforce the connections of Paradise Pier to the unique oceanside geography of California.

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  • IMAGINE
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    I want to chime in, but not getting the overall argument exactly...anybody want to spell it out?

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  • WSVR
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    They have to provide information, education, or inspiration that transcends the mindless thrill of spinning around in a circle.
    Dumbo does not do any of that. It's Elephants flying around in a circle. They aren't pink. Nor would the depiction of drunkenness fly by today's standards. They don't provide information or education. It's an elephant that goes around and around. And I don't mind the occasional mindlessness. The sunwheel is going to be a spinning mickey. Disneyland has had several of these types of rides even when it opened. And when it opened it had none of NOS or Critter country. It didn't have Space, or the Matterhorn. It didn't have the subs. It hand none of what today would be considered super headliners. It did have one or two headliners and some nice things. Some of the best done rides in the place when it comes to immersion came well after it opened. The problem with DCA isn't that it has rides like this. Every park does including Disneyland. It's problem is it has too many of them and not enough of the ones heavy on immersion like Indy or POTC. And that's a problem this plan so far looks like it is going to address.

    I can live with Paradise Pier if we get that other stuff.
    The one thing I'm not keen on at all is the beer garden. Nothing shatters the illusion like a watering hole.
    Last edited by WSVR; 10-20-2007, 10:35 AM.

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  • lazyboy97O
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    Well, as I said, the amusement zone is only incidental. So, whatever other piers have done in the past is really of no consequence. Disney should design something unique unto itself.
    What past piers did in the past of serious consequence. The past is what establishes the real elements that make the fictional ones believable. The simply toss out every cultural notion of the pier removes any connection that guests will make.

    Disney did do something unique, it's called Disneyland.

    But, I think you are mistaken about the extent to which some actual piers have attempted to create an atmosphere with imagery that complements the sea. For example, the now-defunct Pacific Ocean Park, pictured below, hired production designers and art directors from the film industry to design many of the park's features.
    Pacific Ocean Park was established as competition to Disneyland. Far too modern and still outside what is considered the "golden" age (all Disney does "golden" ages).

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  • PrincessY
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    I anyone else freaked out thinking about hanging over the ocean in an enclosed ball on a wire?? This scares the bejeezus outa me! (fear of drowning thing)

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  • techskip
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Prag Here's the Pike Thread I do see the irony in designing a land that in a sense prompted Walt to build Disneyland in the first place. In reality by the time Walt experienced The Pike it was already headed downhill. But as far as the carnival atmosphere and architecture.... this is what they SHOULD be shooting for. This was the West Coast Coney Island! There is a TON of things they could take from this, lots of inspiration. If they really needed characters to randomly toss in it could also mimic Pinocchio's Pleasure Island!

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  • PragmaticIdealist
    replied
    Re: Paradise Pier's new theme

    Well, as I said, the amusement zone is only incidental. So, whatever other piers have done in the past is really of no consequence. Disney should design something unique unto itself. But, I think you are mistaken about the extent to which some actual piers have attempted to create an atmosphere with imagery that complements the sea. For example, the now-defunct Pacific Ocean Park, pictured below, hired production designers and art directors from the film industry to design many of the park's features.



















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