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  • More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remodeling

    The following thread is a continuation of one begun here: http://www.micechat.com/forums/showt...u-81826p9.html

    One of the interesting parts of Disney's personal history is the fact that his first experience with theatre was a then-new play, entitled "Peter Pan", by J.M. Barrie.

    Originally presented in London in 1904, "Peter Pan" made its way to Middle America just in time to create a seminal moment in Walt Disney's life. And, incorporating an allusion to the show into the Main Street, U.S.A. story would foreshadow Walt Disney's film career in Hollywood, as well as his definitive cinematic production of the story in the 1950's.

    Moreover, such an allusion would also foreshadow the four cardinal realms of The Magic Kingdom because Barrie's Never Neverland, filled with everything from pirates and Indians to mermaids and fairies, parallels all that lies across the castle moat and beyond the castle walls at Disneyland.

    Steve DeGaetano recently published a memorandum Walt Disney wrote in the early part of Disneyland's development that said he intended for the opera house to present plays like "Peter Pan", but I would be satisfied with a mere mention of the show through a playbill, perhaps, or something similar.

  • #2
    Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

    Great idea!

    This is the most perfect way to place Johnny Depp on Main Street!

    He starred in Finding Neverland, and they showed him playing pirates with Peter and his brothers.

    Jack Sparrow on Main Street -- here he comes!

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    • #3
      Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

      Correct me if I'm wrong here Prag, but are you suggesting that because Barrie's "Peter Pan" experienced:
      everything from pirates and Indians to mermaids and fairies,
      that Main Street USA should have the aforementioned characters as well ?

      That's absurd. Main Street is a recreation of Anytown, USA in the 1910's. You know that.

      How does Peter Pan have anything to do with Main Street? Snow White had a bigger impact on Walt Disney's life by a long shot than Peter Pan, but I don't see you suggesting that the characters from Snow White be on Main Street.

      I get where you're going with this, but the fact that Barrie's Peter Pan had different characters from the imaginations of his characters doesn't tie into Main Street.

      Maybe... possibly... remotely... The Hub. But definitely not Main Street USA. It would be tooooooooo weird.
      Charlie :wave:
      MiceChat User #1037

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      • #4
        Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

        *smacks forehead*

        Seriously? Again? can someone just resort to derogatory comments already so that this thread is litterboxed again?

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        • #5
          Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

          Originally posted by Circarama View Post
          Correct me if I'm wrong here Prag, but are you suggesting that because Barrie's "Peter Pan" experienced:
          that Main Street USA should have the aforementioned characters as well ?
          Again, none of the particular suggestions I've made is radical by any stretch of the imagination. A playbill, for example, is a small detail that a guest would have to discover. And, he or she would have to think about it for a while in order to understand its meaning in context.

          As to the "Peter Pan" characters, in the previous thread on this topic, I offered the opinion that when Mickey Mouse, and the other Disney characters, appear as permanent fixtures in Town Square and on Main Street, U.S.A., the show is weakened, creatively-speaking. So any allusions to "Peter Pan" here should likewise comport with the stageplay as it existed in the early part of the last century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:P...15_cover_2.JPG.

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          • #6
            Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

            I think it's a fantastic idea to revive theatre on MS. I started a thread awhile back about this:
            http://www.micechat.com/forums/showt...treet+shoppers
            It called for a Vaudeville revival, but I like Prag's suggestion of a perfprmance of the original stage production of Peter Pan, or any other period stage plays. Good idea.

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            • #7
              Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

              You're suggestion would come across the same way the original Fantasyland dark rides... confusing.

              As you well know, When the Fantasyland dark rides were built, Disney animators included characters from Disney's famous theatrical cartoons, except the main characters i.e., no Peter Pan, no Snow White, no Alice and no Mr. Toad. It was a huge mistake. The guests didn't make the connection that Disney's animators were trying to impress upon the guest... that the guest was the main character pasing thru the attraction.

              Your expectations that today's guests (who are much more "spoon-fed" their fantasies than their earlier counterparts were) would be able to make the connection that the playbill is suggesting that they are entering a stage production is woefully optimistic.

              Besides, one of the idea's behind Main Street is not to make people work to understand a suggestion, but rather to lull them into another place in time when life was (supposedly) easier.

              Main Street as it exists is fine. Leave it be.
              Charlie :wave:
              MiceChat User #1037

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              • #8
                Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                Originally posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
                I think it's a fantastic idea to revive theatre on MS. I started a thread awhile back about this:
                http://www.micechat.com/forums/showt...treet+shoppers
                It called for a Vaudeville revival, but I like Prag's suggestion of a perfprmance of the original stage production of Peter Pan, or any other period stage plays. Good idea.
                I didn't read anywhere that Prag was suggesing a stage play in the Opera House. That would be palatable, but not on Main Street.
                Charlie :wave:
                MiceChat User #1037

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                • #9
                  Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                  Originally posted by Circarama View Post
                  Correct me if I'm wrong here Prag, but are you suggesting that because Barrie's "Peter Pan" experienced:
                  that Main Street USA should have the aforementioned characters as well ?

                  That's absurd. Main Street is a recreation of Anytown, USA in the 1910's. You know that.

                  How does Peter Pan have anything to do with Main Street? Snow White had a bigger impact on Walt Disney's life by a long shot than Peter Pan, but I don't see you suggesting that the characters from Snow White be on Main Street.

                  I get where you're going with this, but the fact that Barrie's Peter Pan had different characters from the imaginations of his characters doesn't tie into Main Street.

                  Maybe... possibly... remotely... The Hub. But definitely not Main Street USA. It would be tooooooooo weird.
                  [bold mine]

                  Not even close, Charlie.

                  Prag is saying that a mention of the play shoud be located somewhere on Main Street. Something like a playbill tacked onto a bulletin board or something would work.

                  When I read Prag's OP, I immediately thought of the new "River Notices" board near the Rafts to Tom Sawyer Island dock - something small like a newspaper clipping, a handbill, or something announcing a showing of the stageplay Peter Pan tacked up on a bulletin board like the River Notices board would work well on Main Street.

                  Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
                  Steve DeGaetano recently published a memorandum Walt Disney wrote in the early part of Disneyland's development that said he intended for the opera house to present plays like "Peter Pan", but I would be satisfied with a mere mention of the show through a playbill, perhaps, or something similar.
                  [bold mine]

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                  • #10
                    Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                    Originally posted by MasterGracey View Post
                    Not even close, Charlie.

                    Prag is saying that a mention of the play shoud be located somewhere on Main Street. Something like a playbill tacked onto a bulletin board or something would work.

                    When I read Prag's OP, I immediately thought of the new "River Notices" board near the Rafts to Tom Sawyer Island dock - something small like a newspaper clipping, a handbill, or something announcing a showing of the stageplay Peter Pan tacked up on a bulletin board like the River Notices board would work well on Main Street.
                    Okay, maybe we can get some clarification then from the man himself. Because the impression that I got from the OP was that he was suggestion characters from Peter Pan on Main Street.

                    Gotta run some errands now, I can't wait to catch up on this discussion.
                    Charlie :wave:
                    MiceChat User #1037

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                    • #11
                      Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                      Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post

                      Steve DeGaetano recently published a memorandum Walt Disney wrote in the early part of Disneyland's development that said he intended for the opera house to present plays like "Peter Pan", but I would be satisfied with a mere mention of the show through a playbill, perhaps, or something similar.
                      That I like. It would be one of those nice, small details that would enhance the overall theme of Main St, especially with those who know their Disney history.

                      However, I still dispute your basic premise that anything needs to be done to Main St as part of the DCA remodeling. The reason behind the remodel is to bring DCA up to the quality standards that already exist at Disneyland. To have an entrance to the park of the same quality and function as Main St in Disneyland is the only goal that I've seen expressed by WDI. The over-arching thematic unity that you infer will be there without them doing anything at all to Main St.
                      Last edited by BigThunder; 11-03-2007, 09:32 AM.
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                      • #12
                        Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                        Originally posted by Circarama View Post
                        Okay, maybe we can get some clarification then from the man himself. Because the impression that I got from the OP was that he was suggestion characters from Peter Pan on Main Street.

                        Gotta run some errands now, I can't wait to catch up on this discussion.
                        It's just the opposite, Charlie.

                        Disney characters shouldn't appear as permanent fixtures on Main Street, U.S.A. (Characters in parades and other special events don't really bother me because they are not presented as living on Main Street, U.S.A.; they are just passing through.). And, while a turn-of-the-19th-Century "Peter Pan" show in the opera house wouldn't bother me, either, a simple mention of the play can be just as effective in enriching the Main Street, U.S.A. story with historical details that are of special significance to The Walt Disney Company.

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                        • #13
                          Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                          Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
                          It's just the opposite, Charlie.

                          Disney characters shouldn't appear as permanent fixtures on Main Street, U.S.A. (Characters in parades and other special events don't really bother me because they are not presented as living on Main Street, U.S.A.; they are just passing through.). And, while a turn-of-the-19th-Century "Peter Pan" show in the opera house wouldn't bother me, either, a simple mention of the play can be just as effective in enriching the Main Street, U.S.A. story with historical details that are of special significance to The Walt Disney Company.
                          Thanks for the clarification, and sorry for the misunderstanding.:blush:

                          I actually like the idea of taking it a step further and offering a period era stageshow such as Finding Neverland in the Opera House. That would be cool. It would also strengthen the image of Main Street USA in the early 1900's.
                          Charlie :wave:
                          MiceChat User #1037

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                          • #14
                            Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                            Got to agree... it would be a cool idea to include little tips of the hat to Peter Pan on a playbill or poster somewhere. As Prag said, Peter Pan characterizes a whole lot of what makes up many parts of the park, and would fit well as a reference inside Main Street. And it would fit the time period too if you presented it as a stage play of that period in time.

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                            • #15
                              Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                              I think there's only room for one Peter Pan at Disneyland. By changing the characters to fit a 1900s model, you would be confusing the guests who would want to see the "real" Peter Pan.

                              If you create a show featuring the Disney version of Peter Pan, I think it would be more at home in Fantasyland than on Main Street.

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                              • #16
                                Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                                :judge:


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                                • #17
                                  Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                                  Originally posted by 1FoolishMortal View Post
                                  :judge:


                                  Now imagine a dead horse where he's banging....
                                  Move along then... nothing for you here.

                                  Nothing wrong with us discussing possibilities.
                                  Charlie :wave:
                                  MiceChat User #1037

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                                  • #18
                                    Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                                    Originally posted by Circarama View Post
                                    Move along then... nothing for you here.

                                    Nothing wrong with us discussing possibilities.
                                    Oh, I don't necessarily have a problem with some of the ideas, it's the reasoning behind them that's still leaving me perplexed. Why DL needs to be updated simply because DCA is getting its "story" changed is an odd proposal to say the least.
                                    "Keep Moving Forward."

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                                    • #19
                                      Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                                      Originally posted by MrLiver View Post
                                      I think there's only room for one Peter Pan at Disneyland. By changing the characters to fit a 1900s model, you would be confusing the guests who would want to see the "real" Peter Pan.

                                      If you create a show featuring the Disney version of Peter Pan, I think it would be more at home in Fantasyland than on Main Street.


                                      Mr. Liver,



                                      You and I actually seem to agree on this, which I believe is one of the signs of the Apocalypse .

                                      I do think having more than one version of Peter Pan might be confusing.

                                      I could potentially see an image of a somewhat Victorianized but still recognizably Disney Peter Pan used somewhere on Main Street, (the same way that the Nemo Subs poster emulates the period style of the old Subs poster). But I do feel his main home is in Fantasyland.

                                      On a slightly related note, Disney seems to be launching a campaign of having characters in two places, dividing popular franchises between the two parks. Last time I was there, I saw ads on buses emphasizing the fact that the Nemo Subs were in DL and Turtle Talk was in DCA. This will probably continue with BLAB in DL and Toy Story Midway Mania in DCA.
                                      Last edited by animagusurreal; 11-03-2007, 07:41 PM.
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                                      • #20
                                        Re: More of What Needs to Be Done to Main Street, U.S.A. as Part of the D.C.A. Remode

                                        Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
                                        And, while a turn-of-the-19th-Century "Peter Pan" show in the opera house wouldn't bother me, either, a simple mention of the play can be just as effective in enriching the Main Street, U.S.A. story with historical details that are of special significance to The Walt Disney Company.
                                        Prag, you take a lot of abuse here (occasionally from me), but I do have to say that your intentions are nothing but the best. You really want to layer Disneyland with many intelligent, sophisticated details, and for that you should be commended.

                                        That said, I really think you would be playing to about one dozen or less individuals on the planet who would appreciate the elaborate and almost subliminal message of a posted playbill for a circa 1905 Peter Pan stage production outside the Disneyland Opera House. Honestly, that little detail would be missed by 99.5% of the visitors to Disneyland.

                                        And let's imagine one of the 0.5% of Disneyland visitors who did happen to notice the cleverly placed playbill near the Opera House entrance.

                                        Picture the average family from Whittier, California visiting Disneyland for their once every 18 month visit. Dad with his shaved head and Raiders football jersey. Mom in her Wal-Mart maternity wear. Three adorable children in junior gang attire, with the 5 year old boy sporting the same shaved head haircut that dear old Dad wears.

                                        Waiting for Mom to return from the ladies room, Dad peers down at the antique Peter Pan playbill jauntily placed on the WDI designed theater notice board outside the Opera House. Ah! our father figure says to himself, here's a reference to J.M. Barrie's original stage production of Peter Pan. As his lovely wife returns from the ladies room, Dad is happy to point this clever detail out to her while the children beat up Pluto near the Mad Hatter. "Look honey, here's a nod to the cutting edge theater that must have inspired a young Walter Elias as it crossed the ocean and spread to small town America at the dawn of the great American Century! How clever those Disney artists are to include that in this thematic setting, as if to prod us forward to explore the other realms of this Magic Kingdom! Peel the kids off Pluto before security arrives and let's begin our day of enlightenment and wonder!"

                                        Somehow, I don't imagine that's how it would go down, even for those Disneyland visitors that even notice such a vague reference on Main Street USA.

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