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  • #46
    Originally posted by GameNBurger View Post
    I think people should really look to the park for the changes in crowd capacity, rather than to the people. Star Wars land is going to be a great crowd sink, and letting people walk forward thru critter country rather than having to turn around will do wonders for the crowd flow.

    I understand we all wish it was 2003 again and the park was empty on midweek day, but I don't understand how no one is surprised these topics don't devolve quickly, it's hard to really have a good discussion when the start of it is with statement saying that my own ticket is the problem. People aren't obstacles, we're just trying to have a good time.
    Well said. I agree that blaming APs is scapegoating the issue. The higher ups really need to invest in upgrades to the infrastructure of the resort to better handle new capacities. That's the only way they can better the guest experience without cutting into their profits from AP popularity.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by DisneySpook View Post

      Well said. I agree that blaming APs is scapegoating the issue. The higher ups really need to invest in upgrades to the infrastructure of the resort to better handle new capacities. That's the only way they can better the guest experience without cutting into their profits from AP popularity.
      Absolutely correct, which we clearly see them in the process of, atleast with the parking plans and open mindedness for a third park. I'm no apologist but I do think this issue is being worked on, espescially with the nice hall of posters on the Main Street alternate routes. I'm not sure how they'll fix adventurland tho...

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      • #48
        Originally posted by GameNBurger View Post

        Absolutely correct, which we clearly see them in the process of, atleast with the parking plans and open mindedness for a third park. I'm no apologist but I do think this issue is being worked on, espescially with the nice hall of posters on the Main Street alternate routes. I'm not sure how they'll fix adventurland tho...
        You really can't fix Adventureland unless you find a way to make it a one way street. I also think you would need to look into removing part of the Tree house and possibly extending the Pirates bridge to help and maybe even the Dole Whip (not saying get rid of it, but look into moving it such as where the wall between Jolly Holiday Bakery and the Tiki Room).
        Last edited by Donald1980; 03-16-2017, 11:36 AM.

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        • #49
          I think we are ignoring the elephant in the room. The best solution is to do away with the APs all together, or at the very least greatly reduce the number that are sold every year and allow folks to be on a waiting list until a pass opens up. The second idea would be like season tickets for a sports team. You have them until you give them up.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Donald1980 View Post

            You really can't fix Adventureland unless you find a way to make it a one way street. I also think you would need to look into removing part of the Tree house and possibly extending the Pirates bridge to help and maybe even the Dole Whip (not saying get rid of it, but look into moving it such as where the wall between Jolly Holiday Bakery and the Tiki Room.
            One way street? That's a really interesting idea. It works so well in old historic cities, but that's for vehicles. Are there any one-way pedestrian routes around the world? Maybe somebody knows.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Donald1980 View Post

              You really can't fix Adventureland unless you find a way to make it a one way street. I also think you would need to look into removing part of the Tree house and possibly extending the Pirates bridge to help and maybe even the Dole Whip (not saying get rid of it, but look into moving it such as where the wall between Jolly Holiday Bakery and the Tiki Room.
              I see them doing something like this. The Treehouse is cute but its just novelty and doesn't really do much for taking people out of the walkways. If they removed that and opened NOS while making Adventureland a one-way back to Main St, that would help.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Pips View Post

                One way street? That's a really interesting idea. It works so well in old historic cities, but that's for vehicles. Are there any one-way pedestrian routes around the world? Maybe somebody knows.
                They already do this during Fantasmic! by having westbound traffic coming in through Frontierland and people leaving the show through Adventureland. It may not be easy to create a flow or to get people to go with it for a while, but they will. Well, most will; many will ignore instructions and do what they want, but if the vast majority do, it's a success.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by elle317 View Post
                  Getting rid of monthly payments = not gonna happen. Disney actively trying to discourage APs = not gonna happen. There are no facts in evidence to support that Disney will do either of those things anytime in the near future.
                  This horse has been beaten to death in other threads, but I'll just point out that there are actually numerous points of evidence that Disney is not satisfied with the current model and distribution of APs, and might be willing to take fairly drastic steps to change it when they decide the time is right.

                  Whether that ultimately leads to cutting the monthly payments or not, obviously nobody knows. But, I think absolute statements of any kind are unwise on this topic.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by amyuilani View Post

                    They already do this during Fantasmic! by having westbound traffic coming in through Frontierland and people leaving the show through Adventureland. It may not be easy to create a flow or to get people to go with it for a while, but they will. Well, most will; many will ignore instructions and do what they want, but if the vast majority do, it's a success.
                    I'd forgotten this, Amy. It would require some "re-training" of guests, but really could make a big difference in traffic flow.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by chadwpalm View Post
                      I'm gonna go out on a bold limb here and say it's not the payment plans that are making the parks crowded.....it's the So Cal passes that are making the parks crowded.
                      I mostly agree with this. The SoCal passes (especially Select) are almost scandalously underpriced for the value they offer. Every time prices go up, social media explodes with complaints for a few days, but it's practically pennies on the dollar relative to the price a tourist pays on a per-day basis.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by frihauf View Post
                        I think we are ignoring the elephant in the room. The best solution is to do away with the APs all together, or at the very least greatly reduce the number that are sold every year and allow folks to be on a waiting list until a pass opens up. The second idea would be like season tickets for a sports team. You have them until you give them up.
                        But it's not the elephant in the room. APs are a scapegoat for the reasoning behind the crowd. You eliminate APs, then something else becomes the scapegoat for the crowd. Again, I am beating this horse to death with this, the crowds will even out if you remove APs all together. Also, how does Disneyland survive without the income from APs? You truly do not want to see what the parks would look like without the income. Yes, you will get what you want when it comes to crowds, but will it be worth the cost of what you might lose? For example, no new attractions, less staffing, less attractions open at one time, more expensive food, more expensive tickets, more expensive merchandise, and much more. You know the saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too", it's the same for crowd. You can't have low crowds everyday without it eventually costing you something you are not willing to give up.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Donald1980 View Post
                          how does Disneyland survive without the income from APs? You truly do not want to see what the parks would look like without the income.
                          I'm not convinced this is true. Actually, I tend to believe the revenue Disney gets from the average AP is significantly overstated on this forum (and others). I'm not saying it's just throwaway money. But, based on what financial info is available publicly, it's possible to make some guesses and assumptions about AP revenue, and I don't think you can make a convincing argument that it's really propping up the parks, as your point implies.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Donald1980 View Post

                            But it's not the elephant in the room. APs are a scapegoat for the reasoning behind the crowd. You eliminate APs, then something else becomes the scapegoat for the crowd. Again, I am beating this horse to death with this, the crowds will even out if you remove APs all together. Also, how does Disneyland survive without the income from APs? You truly do not want to see what the parks would look like without the income. Yes, you will get what you want when it comes to crowds, but will it be worth the cost of what you might lose? For example, no new attractions, less staffing, less attractions open at one time, more expensive food, more expensive tickets, more expensive merchandise, and much more. You know the saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too", it's the same for crowd. You can't have low crowds everyday without it eventually costing you something you are not willing to give up.
                            Disney doesn't make as much on AP holders as you might think as a percentage of their gross revenue. I would bet a conservative estimate is that it takes at least 5 AP holders to spend what 1 Vacationing attendee pays. I wouldn't be surprised if the number was closer to 10:1. If Disney finds that by removing AP holders they would gain more vacation attendees AND keep the parks full, they will start cutting pass holders in a second. They have already started doing that with pricing and blackout dates.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by longbeachaztec View Post

                              I'm not convinced this is true. Actually, I tend to believe the revenue Disney gets from the average AP is significantly overstated on this forum (and others). I'm not saying it's just throwaway money. But, based on what financial info is available publicly, it's possible to make some guesses and assumptions about AP revenue, and I don't think you can make an convincing argument that it's really propping up the parks, as your point implies.
                              If it's not, then why has Disney not gotten rid of the AP program or any of it's levels yet? If it's not a huge source of income for the parks, then why keep the program? I highly doubt they keep it because APs spend so much money on food and merchandise (which in itself is a whole separate argument for another thread).

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by frihauf View Post

                                Disney doesn't make as much on AP holders as you might think as a percentage of their gross revenue. I would bet a conservative estimate is that it takes at least 5 AP holders to spend what 1 Vacationing attendee pays. I wouldn't be surprised if the number was closer to 10:1. If Disney finds that by removing AP holders they would gain more vacation attendees AND keep the parks full, they will start cutting pass holders in a second. They have already started doing that with pricing and blackout dates.
                                We are quickly getting off topic and honestly we should be having this conversation in it's own thread and not on here. I'm not going to disagree with you because I don't have the facts, nor do you. We are all doing this based off of assumptions, experience, what we have read on here, what we have heard and possibly seen from other sources. However, I think it's a fair assumption to say APs are a good source of income, an important source of income because Disney has yet to remove any of the levels of the AP program. There is something within the AP program that Disney needs.

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