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Hello Folks,

Delayed, due to unforeseen circumstances our presentation of "MiceChat Forum Makeover" has been delayed till next weekend.

MiceChat Forums will be going through a design change and much needed update. This update will give a more modern look as well as bring in mobile viewing options. So you may see the forums looking strange as we implement the new look.

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  • #81
    Originally posted by longbeachaztec View Post
    Where it boils down for me, though, is the fact that a high-roller tourist who spends five days at the resort is going to drop a lot more cash than even a high-roller AP will in the same number of days. The same is true for mid-spending tourists vs. mid-spending APs, and on down the line. So, give Disney the choice between a park full of tourists, and a park full of APs whose incomes and general demographics are roughly equal, and the choice is a no-brainer.

    Of course, high-spending tourists don't grow on trees, and don't tend to frequent Anaheim in mid-February in great numbers. So, there will always be room for APs, etc.
    If you gave Disney a choice between a park full of Disney hotel guests and a park full of AP's, I would agree with you.

    But the choice here is more stark. There aren't that many Disney hotel rooms. Not every tourists can afford to stay at a Disney hotel. Therefore, most tourists do not qualify as high-spenders.

    In which case, the comparison here that matters is price to buy an AP and price to buy a single day ticket. On average, I would argue that the revenue premium on an AP is greater than that on a single day ticket.

    And, yes, I know the common thing to do here is to take the AP purchase price and divide it by X-number of visits over a year. But I doubt that is how Disney accounts for these things. You are not going to get more for that single day ticket from a regular tourist at point of sale. But from an AP, you are going to get at least $100 dollars more. That's crucial.

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by Donald1980 View Post
      In some ways Disneyland already does this when they reach capacity on extremely busy days, but they actually tend to favor those with a ticket already or annual pass when it comes to deciding who is let in. Also, I wouldn't say it's a guarantee that APs will come back. For example, I have a Signature AP and I haven't been to the park since November. I live locally but my schedule gets quite hectic. I am ok with not using my pass to its fullest potential. Some APs are from out of state and actually act more like a tourist than an AP because they may only do two or three trips a year. They do this, because at times it is cheaper to buy a pass.
      I was there on New Years Eve and had a chance to talk to a Guest Services CM about this because it happened on NYE. The details are a bit hazy because it was a few months ago, but here's what I remember -- perhaps someone else can help fill in the gaps.

      There is actually a 4- or 5- level system for limiting the main gates as Disneyland approaches capacity (doesn't really happen in DCA I guess?). It gradually begins to limit entry -- IIRC it goes something like this:

      Level 1 - ???
      Level 2 - Readmits and Single Day Park Hoppers only (?)
      Level 3 - Only Readmits to this park (people who were in THIS park earlier) & VIP's allowed
      Level 4 - Absolutely No one allowed thru gates

      Someone probably knows better, but that's my recollection.

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by TheArsenicAssoc View Post

        I was there on New Years Eve and had a chance to talk to a Guest Services CM about this because it happened on NYE. The details are a bit hazy because it was a few months ago, but here's what I remember -- perhaps someone else can help fill in the gaps.

        There is actually a 4- or 5- level system for limiting the main gates as Disneyland approaches capacity (doesn't really happen in DCA I guess?). It gradually begins to limit entry -- IIRC it goes something like this:

        Level 1 - ???
        Level 2 - Readmits and Single Day Park Hoppers only (?)
        Level 3 - Only Readmits to this park (people who were in THIS park earlier) & VIP's allowed
        Level 4 - Absolutely No one allowed thru gates

        Someone probably knows better, but that's my recollection.
        Level one: stoppage of all single day tickets at the ticket booths. By this time, you will start to see everyone is getting their hand stamp when they enter the park and you will see managers and other cast members from offices assisting with this.

        Level two: readmits for either park. Basically, you must have a hand stamp and doesn't matter from which park.

        Level three: I don't think they do readmits for only one park, I'm pretty sure it only matters that you have been to one of the parks. So for level three, I'm guessing is your level 4.

        Comment


        • #84
          Originally posted by DL714 View Post
          the comparison here that matters is price to buy an AP and price to buy a single day ticket.
          I disagree with you there. I think the single-day ticket price is one of the least useful, because its probably among the least common purchases.

          The price-per-visit metric seems more informative, and I'd be pretty surprised if Disney didn't track it
          Last edited by longbeachaztec; 03-16-2017, 04:01 PM.

          Comment


          • #85
            Speaking of anecdotal.....
            Does anybody here know any AP who doesn't spend in the parks throughout the year? Either yourself, a relative, a friend?

            Seriously wondering, as this topic comes up a a lot, but I've never heard anybody say they know of anybody. I've got AP friends and relatives who are not exactly "rolling in the stuff," yet they get so immersed in DL throughout the year with their APs that they tend to buy birthday gifts and Christmas gifts for others -- and for themselves plenty of hats, T-shirts and food.

            I'm not being facetious with this question. I really wonder if it's urban legend that people get the passes and then say, "That's it for the year. This was a good deal."

            Comment


            • #86
              With what it costs to be a Club 33 member, you would think they would NOT put a cap on new memberships. But they do. Overcrowding at Club 33 would send the quality of the visit spinning down the toilet.
              Overcrowding at Disneyland is not good for anyone, whether an out of town tourist of local AP who shows up several times a week.
              So they should put a cap on the number of passes sold each year. When the numbers go down, start selling again.

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by Natalie Price View Post
                With what it costs to be a Club 33 member, you would think they would NOT put a cap on new memberships. But they do. Overcrowding at Club 33 would send the quality of the visit spinning down the toilet.
                Overcrowding at Disneyland is not good for anyone, whether an out of town tourist of local AP who shows up several times a week.
                So they should put a cap on the number of passes sold each year. When the numbers go down, start selling again.
                Doesn't the bold contradict what you are wanting? I'm definitely in agreement with overcrowding being horrible, I don't like it either.

                Originally posted by Pips View Post
                Speaking of anecdotal.....
                Does anybody here know any AP who doesn't spend in the parks throughout the year? Either yourself, a relative, a friend?

                Seriously wondering, as this topic comes up a a lot, but I've never heard anybody say they know of anybody. I've got AP friends and relatives who are not exactly "rolling in the stuff," yet they get so immersed in DL throughout the year with their APs that they tend to buy birthday gifts and Christmas gifts for others -- and for themselves plenty of hats, T-shirts and food.

                I'm not being facetious with this question. I really wonder if it's urban legend that people get the passes and then say, "That's it for the year. This was a good deal."
                Maybe this helps. I'm an AP, been one for the past 4 years (CM 12 years before that). I mainly only do one or two things when I visit the parks, sit down and watch the entertainment. However, I still spend money on food and beverages. Once in a blue moon I will buy some type of merchandise. I don't go on attractions very often except when family from out of town visits and on those days will spend much more money on food and merchandise. I haven't had the opportunity to visit the parks very often this year, my last visit was in November where I probably spent close to $400 on food and some merchandise in three days worth of visiting the parks. The point I'm trying to make, is that even someone like me that on the average doesn't spend much time in the parks (some days I'm only there for 3 hours), I still spend money on food or drinks.

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by Donald1980 View Post


                  Maybe this helps. I'm an AP, been one for the past 4 years (CM 12 years before that). I mainly only do one or two things when I visit the parks, sit down and watch the entertainment. However, I still spend money on food and beverages. Once in a blue moon I will buy some type of merchandise. I don't go on attractions very often except when family from out of town visits and on those days will spend much more money on food and merchandise. I haven't had the opportunity to visit the parks very often this year, my last visit was in November where I probably spent close to $400 on food and some merchandise in three days worth of visiting the parks. The point I'm trying to make, is that even someone like me that on the average doesn't spend much time in the parks (some days I'm only there for 3 hours), I still spend money on food or drinks.
                  I suspect this is the norm. "Disney people" kinda like "Disney stuff" -- be it snacks or pins, whatever. Commensurate with their budgets, of course. And not to mention how the brand gets under the skin when in the parks a lot, much to the benefit of other Disney divisions, such as films.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    I know this is a radical concept to introduce to this topic, but the US Economy has been doing really, really well for the past few years (contrary to the "alternative facts" floating around) and California's economy has been even better than the US as a whole. Much of the reason Disneyland is always crowded is because people have more disposable income to spend on such things. It is highly unlikely that the parks are over-crowded because a large number of AP holders are too stupid to do simple math and/or are grossly irresponsible in their personal spending habits. Just a thought.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by Natalie Price View Post
                      With what it costs to be a Club 33 member, you would think they would NOT put a cap on new memberships. But they do. Overcrowding at Club 33 would send the quality of the visit spinning down the toilet.
                      Overcrowding at Disneyland is not good for anyone, whether an out of town tourist of local AP who shows up several times a week.
                      So they should put a cap on the number of passes sold each year. When the numbers go down, start selling again.
                      Natalie, it's such a huge leap from a regular park guest to a C33 member. They spend a fortune for that exclusivity.
                      But I do agree that the parks have become too crowded. When guests reject that crowdedness, I bet adjustments will be made.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        As to AP spending in the park vs. tourist. I had an AP in 2009-2012. The first year, including the price of 4 APs, we figured we spent in the $10-12K range that year between hotel stays (on-site), food, and merchandise. The following AP years we probably spent in the $8000 range each year. I no longer have an AP and will be a "tourist" this summer and anticipate spending around $3000. We have done the "tourist" route a few times and it is always around the same number. So, anecdotally, I spent a LOT more as an AP than I do as a tourist.

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by elle317 View Post
                          As to AP spending in the park vs. tourist. I had an AP in 2009-2012. The first year, including the price of 4 APs, we figured we spent in the $10-12K range that year between hotel stays (on-site), food, and merchandise. The following AP years we probably spent in the $8000 range each year. I no longer have an AP and will be a "tourist" this summer and anticipate spending around $3000. We have done the "tourist" route a few times and it is always around the same number. So, anecdotally, I spent a LOT more as an AP than I do as a tourist.
                          How many days per year did you visit as an AP, compared to your typical tourist visit?

                          The price-per-visit average is the key one, IMO.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by Donald1980 View Post

                            Maybe this helps. I'm an AP, been one for the past 4 years (CM 12 years before that). I mainly only do one or two things when I visit the parks, sit down and watch the entertainment. However, I still spend money on food and beverages. Once in a blue moon I will buy some type of merchandise. I don't go on attractions very often except when family from out of town visits and on those days will spend much more money on food and merchandise. I haven't had the opportunity to visit the parks very often this year, my last visit was in November where I probably spent close to $400 on food and some merchandise in three days worth of visiting the parks. The point I'm trying to make, is that even someone like me that on the average doesn't spend much time in the parks (some days I'm only there for 3 hours), I still spend money on food or drinks.
                            But you're just a small fraction of APs who actually do that. The majority of locals will show up a lot, take up space while checking their iPhone messages, not buy merchandise and eat out of their coolers full of junk food.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by Natalie Price View Post

                              But you're just a small fraction of APs who actually do that. The majority of locals will show up a lot, take up space while checking their iPhone messages, not buy merchandise and eat out of their coolers full of junk food.
                              I wouldn't generalize the majority of locals by the few you see. They have varied practices and varied spending habits. They are why you have a job there.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Originally posted by Natalie Price View Post

                                But you're just a small fraction of APs who actually do that. The majority of locals will show up a lot, take up space while checking their iPhone messages, not buy merchandise and eat out of their coolers full of junk food.
                                Any proof to this or is this all assumptions? I only ask, because this has been a big debate on here, which has been very hard to prove either way. I wasn't claiming to speak on the part of most APs, I responded the message in attempt to help answer their question.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by Natalie Price View Post
                                  ...The majority of locals will show up a lot, take up space while checking their iPhone messages, not buy merchandise and eat out of their coolers full of junk food.
                                  Originally posted by Donald1980 View Post
                                  Any proof to this or is this all assumptions?...
                                  While it's true that there is no formal, published documentation to prove most APers engage in this behavior, it's also true that virtually everyone working onstage witnessed the increased frequency in this behavior back when the no-interest monthly program began -- which was also the time that the number of APers surged. It was reported repeatedly, by many CMs and visitors, in this forum and others.

                                  The reality is that utilized to the maximum days allowed, even the lower level Annual Passports can make a day at Disneyland cheaper than going to the movies. It's a huge bargain -- especially for locals who can have someone drop them off and thus avoid parking fees. The result has been an increase in the number of APers overall, and an increase in the fraction of frequent-visit local APers who use Disneyland similar to an outing at the beach, an after-school/after-work hangout at the mall, or a babysitting place to drop off the kids.

                                  It's unfortunate that some APers see the discussion of such facts as fault-finding, blaming, or a personal attack -- it's not. It's just the reality of how the AP program works.

                                  Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 03-16-2017, 07:47 PM.
                                  "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
                                  Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
                                  imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

                                  - Neil Gabler

                                  "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
                                  until Thor told it to me."
                                  -
                                  Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    IMO

                                    Get rid of the low tier APs
                                    (I do think, by the time Disney open Star War Land ,they will)

                                    I one, does not like payment plans,because the crowds.
                                    I for paying up front for all AP's and Tickets admission
                                    (But ,I do not see Disney doing this ,for simple fact that Disney not only Theme Parks and Amusement Parks ,
                                    that have payment plans)

                                    I would like to see Disney Parks Advertise and Show the real cost for AP's not just monthly payment amount !
                                    Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by Natalie Price View Post

                                      But you're just a small fraction of APs who actually do that. The majority of locals will show up a lot, take up space while checking their iPhone messages, not buy merchandise and eat out of their coolers full of junk food.
                                      Well, really when I asked about the AP spending of friends and family, I really was trying to zero in on personal knowledge, not just "perception." Again, knowing it's all just anecdotal. For instance, I have a 20ish nephew who might be seen eating a snack he brought in at parade time, but he seriously likes the expensive drinks at Cove Bar. And my niece packs healthy sandwiches for her kids, because she's very health-conscious, but I know the kids also have a whole bunch of "Mickey stuff" and quite a pin collection.

                                      Anyhow, it was just something I wondered about...the AP habits of the Mice Chatters and of their friends and family. I'm seriously not trying to spin this one way or another. There is just always discussion about who spends in the park, tourists or APs. I know I'm shocked at the end of a year at what I've fed the Mouse in the years when I have an AP. But maybe some people do just buy the pass and say, "Great. Got it. Nothing more out of pocket for the rest of the year." (They sure would have to have good self-control, though!!)

                                      Do you have friends or family with an AP, Natalie? Care to share how they make use of the AP?

                                      I'll edit this to add I just saw Eagleman's post. I sure do agree with the last line about showing the real cost of the AP, not just the monthly amount. It bothers me no end to see the prices quoted that way. I see why they do it, but I don't think it's a decent thing to do.
                                      Last edited by Pips; 03-16-2017, 07:49 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by longbeachaztec View Post
                                        If memory serves, didn't the monthly payment plan start a couple of years after the 50th? It seems like 2009-2010ish after the recession kicked in...

                                        It seems like I've read that's when the number of APs exploded to 1m+.
                                        I believe they implemented the monthly payments in December 2008. Without official numbers we can't say for sure, but that definitely seems to be around the time the AP population exploded.
                                        "In Hell, everybody loves popcorn."

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by deadwinterskies View Post

                                          I believe they implemented the monthly payments in December 2008. Without official numbers we can't say for sure, but that definitely seems to be around the time the AP population exploded.
                                          I think your Date is close:
                                          But again- IMO
                                          There two (2) fact- er be- hide, population exploded!
                                          *implemented the monthly payments
                                          *started the low tier AP's
                                          So, I agreed!
                                          Soaring like an EAGLE !

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