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  • splashmountaineer
    started a topic No or payment plans please

    No or payment plans please

    I have been a passholder for years and as the park has become more and more crowded in the last decade i have always tried to keep a good attitude about the monthly payments or passes. Well, i have finally turned to the dark side and i am saying Disneyland has to cut this out. It doesnt matter if it's Monday or Saturday, the parks are packed.

    I know some people can't afford it, believe me i've been there. I had to wait until i could afford a pass and then there were a few years off and on where i didnt get a pass. But the parks now just feel uncomfortable with how many people there are. I had to save for a trip to WDW and it was so nice that it wasnt jam packed. Sure there were some lines but it wasnt like Disneyland. If i was coming out to DLR for a vacation i could imagine the people being furious over the crowds.

    So thats my rant. I always had the opinion that Disneyland should be for everyone but have finally changed my mind and say something else besides price increases needs to be done, axe the payments.

  • soggyinsnoqualmie
    replied
    I have not looked into this scientifically but i am curious about visitation to the parks as a percentage of local and non local population. It is obvious that the population in almost every area has increased many times over in the past decades, but has the visitation to disneyland exceeded the corresponding population increase(in other words, become more popular or just as popular but from a larger base)?

    I will give an example of how things have changed in another realm. I am in the Seattle area. With the tech boom, we have had enormous changes to our population demographic. Immigrants from India (and Asia as well)have been a very large contributor to the growth. In India, skiing is something only attainable by the very wealthy, yet here it is easily a middle class activity. As a ski instructor, i can attest that childrens ski classes now can be comprised of a majority of Indian students. This has caused skiing, which has been a stagnant sport for decades, to become a slightly growing sport now, in part to the new demographic markets that are being introduced in the US.

    I would guess that a similar situation is happening with theme parks. More and more people have a lot more disposable income and increased vacation time. What are they going to do with it? Going to disneyland has always been a choice, yet now it is attainable for many more people.

    Before readers get the wrong impression that I think immigrants are "bad" or that only the rich should be able to afford Disneyland, believe me when i say that i have no problem with anyone from anywhere. I am just pointing out a specific example that i have noted and am curious if there is a much larger shift in our society and how we spend our money and time that is creating the disneyland crowding.

    Really I think that this goes well beyond Disney. It amazes me that other companies have not seen the potential and created more theme parks versus the existing empires investing to slightly expand current venues. If there were a comparable competition to disneyland customers would be forced to make the choice, but as the numbers show there is no true competition. This is why we continue to return.

    Leave a comment:


  • igomod
    replied
    And you're one of the reasons the flow stops. So why should your experience be protected but those "others" shouldn't be there? And "others" comes to be defined by any group you can conveniently scapegoat for the cause of your discomfort: those making monthly payments, those on a SoCal pass, locals using Disneyland as a "hang out." As though your experience is privileged over anybody else's.

    (not singling you out specifically. this is meant for anyone complaining about crowds and proposing solutions that limits what other people can do)

    Leave a comment:


  • DarthBrett78
    replied
    It's too crowded, or over crowded, when you and thousands of other people are walking into a walkway or path area and it bottlenecks and you are just standing there not moving or barely able to walk at all. That is over crowded/too crowded.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barbaraann
    replied
    The bottom line is that the people keep coming. They keep buying tickets of all kinds. So why would Disney change anything, based on those simple facts alone?

    Leave a comment:


  • igomod
    replied
    But they DO know that. Not by walking around, but by looking at that same data we don't have. Are we still showing up and spending money? Has attendance dipped? Boom: emotional impact can be known.

    Leave a comment:


  • amyuilani
    replied
    Originally posted by igomod View Post
    In all of these discussions, nobody has ever provided a clear definition of "over-crowded." It's always just some vague notion tied more to someone's personal comfort than any solid variable or condition we can really discuss. my "crowded" isn't the same as your "crowded." There's no way to reasonably discuss something like this without a proper understanding of the terms in use.

    Also, much of this discussion is just pure arrogance. That any of us would know better than the disney company would about this topic. that we can sit here in our armchairs and know what's best to decrease overcrowding with no reliable data and almost total ignorance of what the actual numbers show regarding who spends what and what each demographic's costs and profit potential is.

    Honestly, do you REALLY think disneyland hasn't examined this from every angle using carefully collected data? Every purchase made anywhere at the parks besides kiosks comes with poll data about whether the purchase is being made by an AP holder or not. You think they remind APs to use their discounts out of generosity?

    They know what's being spent on and where it's being spent. They know who is spending it. They have based their decisions on payment plans and pass levels and acceptable attendance levels on that data.

    I'm really not sure any of us have any grounds for discussing this topic with any kind of certainty at all. Y'all don't know. You don't.
    The points you bring up have been mentioned in some of the other threads that have covered this topic. I agree with you, and many others do too, that what one considers crowded another will consider manageable. Many of us will agree, though, that when it takes 10 minutes to get up and down Main St. because the crowds are so dense, it's too crowded.

    I also agree with you that we are all speculating and don't have actual numbers to back up any of our claims. However, we do have what Disneyland management doesn't, which is real, on-the-ground experience of what it feels like to be in the crowds. Management has the luxury of moving around in backstage areas so that they don't have to deal with the crowds. Even the CMs who need to get to outlying areas to work at their locations for the day can use backstage routes. Guests don't have that luxury. People who solely look and numbers and don't tie in any of the physical or emotional impacts don't have the full picture. Both groups are probably lacking in the information needed to really understand what changes need to be made. Both groups have good information and both should be considered.

    Leave a comment:


  • igomod
    replied
    In all of these discussions, nobody has ever provided a clear definition of "over-crowded." It's always just some vague notion tied more to someone's personal comfort than any solid variable or condition we can really discuss. my "crowded" isn't the same as your "crowded." There's no way to reasonably discuss something like this without a proper understanding of the terms in use.

    Also, much of this discussion is just pure arrogance. That any of us would know better than the disney company would about this topic. that we can sit here in our armchairs and know what's best to decrease overcrowding with no reliable data and almost total ignorance of what the actual numbers show regarding who spends what and what each demographic's costs and profit potential is.

    Honestly, do you REALLY think disneyland hasn't examined this from every angle using carefully collected data? Every purchase made anywhere at the parks besides kiosks comes with poll data about whether the purchase is being made by an AP holder or not. You think they remind APs to use their discounts out of generosity?

    They know what's being spent on and where it's being spent. They know who is spending it. They have based their decisions on payment plans and pass levels and acceptable attendance levels on that data.

    I'm really not sure any of us have any grounds for discussing this topic with any kind of certainty at all. Y'all don't know. You don't.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Disney wants the parks busy-crowed!
    They going get there money regarding payment plans AP's or Admission.
    That would make sure,that more people will see, Disney brand advertisement and synergy!
    It just business to them

    Leave a comment:


  • GwenRowan
    replied
    there is just less sticker shock with payments... sure, save up... LOL... I read an article in a "money" magazine about how the self employed simply do not
    "save" enough... a simple philosophy for those who don't have a tight budget...

    I imagine, discontinuing the payment plan would eliminate some APs, but, you are assuming that cutting the crowds is a goal.. in that case, they could simply limit the number of passes... something they will accomplish by raising the price

    at my age... I do payments... just in case...

    Leave a comment:


  • JayRomy
    replied
    Originally posted by amyuilani View Post

    I'm in favor of that - no more APs, punch cards only, paid in full instead of payment plans.
    If I could just get my hands on a hopper that had MUCH longer fuse, I am sure I'd go a bit less. A 4, 5, 6, 8 day hopper that expired 1yr after first use, this would put a dent in the crowd, not a huge dent, but I assume a noticeable one. I say this bc I cant be the only one who wants this. I love my beloved DL, but I dont want to go 10 to 15 times per yr.
    Last edited by JayRomy; 03-20-2017, 04:54 PM. Reason: Oops.

    Leave a comment:


  • amyuilani
    replied
    Originally posted by JayRomy View Post
    Mais oui.
    And I was kinda trying to prove a point too.
    Anyone who steps inside DL: AP, or day ticket, sign in, or free tickets from your local radio station, imo can't really point too many fingers. A warm body taking up space is doing so no matter the form of ticket media.

    Now are some ppl more guilty or less guilty based on the number of times per yr? If that's the case we then need a rationing system... the punchcard therory mentioned hundreds of times or a membership system to allow for X number of visits per year.
    I'm in favor of that - no more APs, punch cards only, paid in full instead of payment plans.

    Leave a comment:


  • JayRomy
    replied
    Originally posted by amyuilani View Post

    I think the point is that you don't have any credibility complaining about a problem you actively contribute to on a regular basis. People do, though.
    Mais oui.
    And I was kinda trying to prove a point too.
    Anyone who steps inside DL: AP, or day ticket, sign in, or free tickets from your local radio station, imo can't really point too many fingers. A warm body taking up space is doing so no matter the form of ticket media.

    Now are some ppl more guilty or less guilty based on the number of times per yr? If that's the case we then need a rationing system... the punchcard therory mentioned hundreds of times or a membership system to allow for X number of visits per year.

    Leave a comment:


  • amyuilani
    replied
    Originally posted by JayRomy View Post

    How many times can you go to the parks per yr with your AP before you can complain?
    I think the point is that you don't have any credibility complaining about a problem you actively contribute to on a regular basis. People do, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • JayRomy
    replied
    Originally posted by elle317 View Post
    Getting rid of monthly payments = not gonna happen. Disney actively trying to discourage APs = not gonna happen. There are no facts in evidence to support that Disney will do either of those things anytime in the near future. If a large number of AP holders and/or tourists stop going to the park and Disney were to determine the cause to be over crowding, then they might be inclined to look into the issue. So, all of the cards are in the hands of the consumer on this one. You can't have an AP, go to the park all the time and also complain about the crowds. Sorry.
    How many times can you go to the parks per yr with your AP before you can complain?

    Leave a comment:


  • BiggestDisneyFan
    replied
    Originally posted by longbeachaztec View Post

    I wonder if the number of APs who fall into this group is bigger than we think.

    A ton of APs are single, young adults. You look at all the data about average student loan debt, stagnant entry-level job growth, etc. And compare it to the cost of living in SoCal, and I wouldn't be shocked if the under-35s were most reliant on the free payment plans.
    This could very well be true.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Originally posted by DarthBrett78 View Post
    I tend to lean on the side that believes the payment plan should probably continue and is a good thing. But, I do think it's probably time for Disneyland to get rid of the SoCal Select and SoCal passes. Or at least put them on hiatus for a few years. I'd be curious to see how crowd levels would change if there were only Deluxe, Signature and Signature Plus (aka Premium) passes offered but payment plans still as an option.


    I Agreed
    And I do think , by the time Star War Land open ...Disney will !
    But as for payments plans goes,Disney will keep that, for simple fact other's
    Entertainment theme parks and amusement parks ,has them!
    When STAR WAR LAND open ...Admission will be "Game Change "
    IMO
    Last edited by Eagleman; 03-19-2017, 06:01 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Originally posted by GameNBurger View Post

    Agreed, and when frustrations are taken at vague groups like locals who use iPhones and eat junk food as the bunt of all blame, it just feels uncomfortable. I've never been rude to a cast member but from the post it sure feels like I should feel bad.
    What I can tell ,less ,on the board
    You are very respectful to other's, as well courteous.
    So there, NO reason, for you should feel bad!
    Last edited by Eagleman; 03-19-2017, 05:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DLR92
    replied
    Originally posted by GameNBurger View Post

    Agreed, and when frustrations are taken at vague groups like locals who use iPhones and eat junk food as the bunt of all blame, it just feels uncomfortable. I've never been rude to a cast member but from the post it sure feels like I should feel bad.
    Don't feel bad. You do you and be kind and courteous around others.

    Leave a comment:


  • GameNBurger
    replied
    Originally posted by DarthBrett78 View Post

    I agree. But sometimes it seems like there's an open disdain and hostility for the entire group as a whole and many generalizations that are unwarranted. And I am not specifically talking about any one member here. Obviously not every AP is rude, entitled or belligerent just like not every tourist is kind, courteous and respectful of others. I think any of those behaviors can come from an AP or a tourist or non-AP.
    Agreed, and when frustrations are taken at vague groups like locals who use iPhones and eat junk food as the bunt of all blame, it just feels uncomfortable. I've never been rude to a cast member but from the post it sure feels like I should feel bad.

    Leave a comment:

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