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  • #61
    Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

    Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    I'm going to put some microwave popcorn in for this one.

    Don't breath in the fumes, it's not good for you. DOn't breath in the popcorn fumes either.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

      It's important to also realize that each of Walt Disney's "four cardinal realms" were intended to be worlds unto themselves. When one is in Adventureland, for example, he or she is not supposed to be able to see Tomorrowland, and the characters in each of these realms are not supposed to have knowledge of the other universes.

      In Frontierland, specifically, there are no visual barriers separating Zocolo Park from New Orleans Square or Big Thunder Trail from Critter Country. The theme of the frontier unifies everything, and the dramatic unities of time, place, and action do, as well. I think people have trouble understanding this concept because they have a very specific idea of the meaning of the term, "frontier", when it is able to encompass much more than just westward expansionism.

      Capt. Jack Sparrow was experiencing the closing of one frontier. John Smith and Pocahontas met in another. And, neither of those frontiers can be found in the Old West, just as New Orleans Square is, as Walt Disney said, "the gay Paris of the American frontier."

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      • #63
        Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

        In Fantasyland, specifically, there are no visual barriers separating the Matterhorn and Motorboat lagoon from Tomorrowland.

        So I guess the future is about fairytales.

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        • #64
          Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

          Yes, yes, we're all aware of the expansion of 1959 that stuffed Disneyland full of new attractions and additional capacity in order to accommodate Disneyland's early popularity and overutilization. And, yes, we all know the creative weaknesses that persist in the Northeast area of Disneyland to this day. I don't try to explain them, myself. In fact, I greatly dislike them, but I know how they came to be. And, I know how they can easily be fixed.

          The Skyway was the big offender whose necessary size dictated that it be able to cross from one world and into another. All the other fllaws really came as a response to this attraction that is no longer in existence.

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          • #65
            Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

            I dunno, I sort of like that "not really in Tomorrowland, not really in Fantasyland" area.

            It's so "Disneyland" isn't it?

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            • #66
              Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

              Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
              I dunno, I sort of like that "not really in Tomorrowland, not really in Fantasyland" area.

              It's so "Disneyland" isn't it?
              But is Disney a land or a "Land"?
              Originally posted by SummerInFL
              Jesus, even I wouldn't eat that.

              Originally posted by Wanda Woman
              Turtle, the dorks are going to take upskirt robot pics.

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              • #67
                Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                I don't know that piazza information.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                  I aways called that area Matterhornland.
                  Please visit my Big Thunder/Disney Inspired Model Railroad


                  Dream big. Do what you love.

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                  • #69
                    Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                    Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
                    Similarly, when a word is in quotation marks, it may not have the same meaning that the word has outside those marks.

                    Somewhere along the way, the "land" to which some copy-writer referred in this news release became a Land.

                    Anything can be a "land". A Land, however, is a special designation that has a unique meaning.
                    "Magic Kingdom" appears in quotes. Twice.

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                    • #70
                      Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                      I know the marketing challenges that New Orleans Square inhered, so I do understand the logic behind the hyperbole in the advertising copy and the news releases.

                      New Orleans Square was really just a $16 million expansion of shops and restaurants to the Old New Orleans that is original to Frontierland, especially since N.O.S. opened without any attractions. So, the challenge, at the tme, was to convey to consumers that these shops and restaurants were an attraction in themselves and that they were, as such, worth a visit to Disneyland.

                      While I understand the overzealousness in this news release, I still don't approve of the hype. because it comes close to being deceptive. Thankfully, New Orleans Square delivered on the promises the advertising and publicity made, and I think the fact that most people, to this day, think of N.O.S. as being more than just a collection of shops and restaurants (with a couple of attractions) is a testament to the success of the overall design.

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                      • #71
                        Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                        It was the pirates, unclear theme, walts frozen head and what he would think that did it.

                        Crab people, crap people.
                        Tastes like crab, walks like people.
                        There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
                        -Dr. Strange

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                        • #72
                          Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                          Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post


                          There really isn't much conspiracy. This is from the New Orleans Square press release. Found on a great blog of Disney images called Stuff from The Park. The Press Release not only calls NOS a "land," it also calls it the "newest land." It also pinpoints NOS as being from the 1850s. Even so, to me it will always be a subset of Frontierland.

                          http://matterhorn1959.blogspot.com/2...1_archive.html
                          Since this has unexpectedly turned into a serious discussion, I'll weigh in, sans Crab People references.
                          NOS's ties to Frontierland are elementary and well documented. Also well documented is the intent to give this new addition independence from Frontierland. I look at it along the same lines as I do Bear/Critter Country. Thematically tied (more accurately: used to be tied) to its Patron, Frontierland; but in realistic terms a seperate Land.

                          While I don't think it was a good move (either the sovereignty of NOS or Bear/Critter Country), it was the move that was made. Considering the direction NOS and CC have gone, it was probably for the better having the seperation, ultimately.

                          It's an odd relationship, to be sure, between NOS and Frontierland. This is evidenced by the direct reference to a NOS attraction (HM) while riding on a Frontierland attraction (Mark Twain). One does not see this thematic cross-referencing often (or at all?); and it is telling.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                            It's just a matter of Disney not giving New Orleans Square parity with each of the four cardinal realms and not divorcing the port city from the rest of Frontierland.

                            It's a simple thing to do, and it will help keep Remy, Winnie the Pooh, and the rejects from Universal Studios' Blues Brothers out of the area in the future.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                              Okay no more crab people for a while.

                              frontier

                              a wilderness at the edge of a settled area of a country;

                              So thematically it is allowable that HM can be seen from the Mark Twain.
                              Originally posted by SummerInFL
                              Jesus, even I wouldn't eat that.

                              Originally posted by Wanda Woman
                              Turtle, the dorks are going to take upskirt robot pics.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                                Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
                                It's important to understand the difference between a proper noun that is capitalized and a common noun that isn't. Similarly, when a word is in quotation marks, it may not have the same meaning that the word has outside those marks.

                                Somewhere along the way, the "land" to which some copy-writer referred in this news release became a Land.

                                Anything can be a "land". A Land, however, is a special designation that has a unique meaning....
                                I've never seen any Disney literature use the word Land instead of "land".

                                It's not Frontier Land, Fantasy Land or Tomorrow Land. They're known as Frontierland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland.

                                OFF TOPIC: Do you work in the felt business, or do you make hats, Pragmatic?

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                                  Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
                                  It's just a matter of Disney not giving New Orleans Square parity with each of the four cardinal realms and not divorcing the port city from the rest of Frontierland.

                                  It's a simple thing to do, and it will help keep Remy, Winnie the Pooh, and the rejects from Universal Studios' Blues Brothers out of the area in the future.
                                  Who are the 'rejects from Universal'? Are you refering to the live entertainment?

                                  I give New Orleans Square parity with all cardinal realms, so does that make me a bad person?

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                                    I give New Orleans Square parity with all cardinal realms, so does that make me a bad person?
                                    Absolutely! :mob:

                                    No, I'm kidding. I consider NOS its own land. I think fundamentally, we're all in agreement here. We just differ on what aspects of the truth are most important.

                                    * NOS and its brethren are indeed officially recognized by Disney, at this point in time, as separate lands.

                                    * Walt Disney originally intended Disneyland to have four "cardinal realms" plus the opening act of Main Street, USA.

                                    * Walt also was largely responsible for the creation of New Orleans Square nearly a decade after the park's construction. It was billed as a new land--and it was even given the same lower-case designation as the other lands!

                                    * NOS is closely tied to Frontierland in its physical proximity, as well as the fact that both represent different frontiers at different points in American history.

                                    * NOS is also quite thematically separate, as evidenced by its markedly different visual aesthetic. Most people will agree it does not feel like the same place.

                                    * The mere fact that New Orleans Square and Frontierland represent very different real-world physical locations is not enough to justify them being different lands--consider the various locales represented in Adventureland, for instance. The difference here, however, is that NOS maintains a completely different design philosophy than Frontierland itself, whereas Adventureland attempts to unify the various locales into one generalization.

                                    * Whether or not NOS is its own land really has ZERO impact on 99.93885% of Disneyland's demographic. It's where you go to see Johnny Depp, right?




                                    So perhaps we can all just agree on this: NOS is officially its own land at the moment, though it and Frontierland can be vaguely grouped together along with Critter Country under the western halfish-quadrantish part of Disneyland, which is a "cardinal realm" devoted to American history in its various incarnations.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                                      If NOS isn't a land, it's the best realm in the magic kingdom.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                                        If NOS isn't a land, it's the best realm in the magic kingdom.
                                        Maybe that's why so many refuse to consider it equal to the four originals.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Re: NOS "land" conspiracy revealed!

                                          Originally posted by aashee View Post
                                          If NOS isn't a land, it's the best realm in the magic kingdom.
                                          Now I am confused again, being new here that is to be expected, if fantasyland etc. are not Lands but Realms, how come they are not titled Fantasyrealm?

                                          Does this mean there are no Lands only Realms? And does this further mean NOS is fighting to be a Realm not a Land?

                                          And how does critter country get to be the only Country, and is being a Country better than being a Realm?

                                          Last, how can we inject parenting skills into this thread to spice it up a bit?
                                          Originally posted by SummerInFL
                                          Jesus, even I wouldn't eat that.

                                          Originally posted by Wanda Woman
                                          Turtle, the dorks are going to take upskirt robot pics.

                                          Comment

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