is it safe to try TSM standby line again?

[Kram Sacul]

Lines were rarely above 60 minutes before fastpass, most E tickets were 30-45 minutes. They also built queues to entertain guests for the length of the queue. Now, queues are left empty and lines move slower.

The reason Disney started FP was not for guest experience, but to make money. People in lines can't buy things. If you let them virtually wait in line, they can be physically shopping or eating. The problem is, now you are taking up space in line AND taking up space elsewhere in the park. This is why the walkways have become so congested and smaller attractions have increased wait times while also increasing wait times for standby lines on fastpass attractions.

Bingo. Fastpass has done nothing positive and was created to fool people into thinking they're not waiting.

[CalamityPoo]

Bingo. Fastpass has done nothing positive and was created to fool people into thinking they're not waiting.

Nothing positive for those who dont know how to plan their day.

Is it not assumed that attending a theme park will result in standing in lines? Am i crazy?

Those who fail to plan plan to fail and all that jazz

[Krillinish]

I thought they were suppose to enclose the queue, what happened with that? I remember reading a permit for it like 6 months back.

The interior queue air conditioning was completed a week or 2 ago.

[matterhorn77]

Bingo. Fastpass has done nothing positive and was created to fool people into thinking they're not waiting.

So yesterday when I basically walked onto Space Mountain with my fastpass I was actually waiting 60 minutes...?

[Kram Sacul]

Nothing positive for those who dont know how to plan their day.

Is it not assumed that attending a theme park will result in standing in lines? Am i crazy?

Those who fail to plan plan to fail and all that jazz

Huh?

[Kram Sacul]

So yesterday when I basically walked onto Space Mountain with my fastpass I was actually waiting 60 minutes...?

You were probably waiting longer than that. You just weren't in the queue.

[matterhorn77]

You were probably waiting longer than that. You just weren't in the queue.

Please explain.

[matterhorn77]

What I find curious about this post is that 3 of your last 4 rides were fastpass and for rides that generally have long return window, and those rides came later in the day. I'd be curious to see what time you actually went on those rides because there's no way at that time of day you could just hop off Matterhorn and fastpass SM with an immediate return time. The return for those rides would be at least an hour out. You ate lunch in critter country which means for your last 4-5 hours you averaged 1 ride an hour. Not exactly a short wait.

We had a maxpass for buzz light year after Matterhorn. Buzz temporarily closed and we received a pass for an option of 5 or 6 rides to use at anytime. We chose space mountain.

Walking around the park, looking at scenery, shops isn't being in line. Standing in.... a line is being in line.

[Starcade]

I find it curious the uptick in complaints about over distribution of FP's in the months leading up to and beginning of Max Pass?

[Professortango]

I remember before fastpass waiting over an hour for Splash mountain, star tours, space mountain, Matterhorn. I remember going when Indy first opened. The line went all the way out to Main Street and back to Big Thunder mountain.

Yes, Splash had long lines when it opened. Most E tickets do. Lines calmed down to 45 minutes on average. Same with Indy. Sure, it was 4 hours opening weeks, but that's not reflective of normal wait times.

Space has a longer line now that fastpass is around. We've seen the results of before and after with Midway Mania and Haunted Mansion. Fastpass increases wait times and guest congestion.

[CalamityPoo]

Huh?

You are saying that Fast pass offers nothing positive. Im replying that it offers nothing positive for those who dont plan their day and utilize the things that are available. Then i ranted about stuff after that.

[Beavis]

Lines were rarely above 60 minutes before fastpass, most E tickets were 30-45 minutes. They also built queues to entertain guests for the length of the queue. Now, queues are left empty and lines move slower.

The reason Disney started FP was not for guest experience, but to make money. People in lines can't buy things. If you let them virtually wait in line, they can be physically shopping or eating. The problem is, now you are taking up space in line AND taking up space elsewhere in the park. This is why the walkways have become so congested and smaller attractions have increased wait times while also increasing wait times for standby lines on fastpass attractions.

You're right, of course. And the first time I visited DL was '95, which was the summer Indiana Jones opened IIRC. And there were no fastpasses, obviously. I don't remember what the wait time was, but it was obviously very long. I'm guessing it was probably the last E-ticket opened prior to FP being implemented, and the design of the queue showed it. I remember being fairly entertained by the design of the queue itself on the way through, which took quite a bit of the edge off the wait.

But like I said already, I'd still much prefer a FP for a new attraction, which is virtually the only way I ever ride the busiest e-tickets, other than early morning or late night standby lines. Plus, in the grand scheme, maybe freeing up a lot of the guests to wander around the park might allow them to design more efficient queues on new attractions without chewing up quite as much space as they might otherwise.

[Mr Wiggins]

Lines were rarely above 60 minutes before fastpass, most E tickets were 30-45 minutes. They also built queues to entertain guests for the length of the queue. Now, queues are left empty and lines move slower.

The reason Disney started FP was not for guest experience, but to make money. People in lines can't buy things. If you let them virtually wait in line, they can be physically shopping or eating. The problem is, now you are taking up space in line AND taking up space elsewhere in the park. This is why the walkways have become so congested and smaller attractions have increased wait times while also increasing wait times for standby lines on fastpass attractions.

Exactly right. This has been documented and demonstrated for years since Fastpass was rolled out, and yet still the customers believe the Disney PR spin that "we're doing this to improve your Disneyland experience."

[AstroJeff]

Is it safe to try TSM again? Maybe, it depends on the circumstances. We've only ridden TSM three times since its FP was put in and we go to the parks about once a week. Once we were walking by and noticed the ride was down, but a CM said they were doing testing and might be back up in a few minutes (it was, so a very short wait). Once we were actually able to get a fast pass for it before they ran out. And once we waited for about an hour in the standby line. Like others have said they let through very few standbys. We were only able to get on when we did because two folks in those electric carts blocked the entrance to the fast pass line while trying to get their tickets out.

[longbeachaztec]

FastPass can be a boost to your experience IF... you only or primarily visit Disneyland for E-tickets, AND... you are more familiar with crowds and wait-time trends than the average guest, and strategize your day accordingly. If you don't fit into both of those categories, FP is not helping you, and may actually be making your experience worse. It's a zero-sum process, and any minute you gain in one place must be compensated for somewhere else - either at your expense, or someone else's. Overall, I think FP is a customer service failure, but most people haven't realized it yet.

I also suspect that the supposed increase in food/shopping revenue from FP is negligible or non-existent. Honestly, the best thing Disney can do to improve those revenue streams is to trim down the crowds. People will be more likely to stop in a store or sit down for a more expensive meal if they aren't in a constant rush to get their money's worth out of the attractions.

[WaltDisney'sAlec]

Exactly right. This has been documented and demonstrated for years since Fastpass was rolled out, and yet still the customers believe the Disney PR spin that "we're doing this to improve your Disneyland experience."

FastPass can be a boost to your experience IF... you only or primarily visit Disneyland for E-tickets, AND... you are more familiar with crowds and wait-time trends than the average guest, and strategize your day accordingly. If you don't fit into both of those categories, FP is not helping you, and may actually be making your experience worse. It's a zero-sum process, and any minute you gain in one place must be compensated for somewhere else - either at your expense, or someone else's. Overall, I think FP is a customer service failure, but most people haven't realized it yet.

I also suspect that the supposed increase in food/shopping revenue from FP is negligible or non-existent. Honestly, the best thing Disney can do to improve those revenue streams is to trim down the crowds. People will be more likely to stop in a store or sit down for a more expensive meal if they aren't in a constant rush to get their money's worth out of the attractions.

This is an interesting take. I remember the non-FP days with faster stand-by lines, but I also don't miss them. I think because I fit in the category described by longbeachaztec I have been able to benefit from it. (I don't go to Disneyland primarily for the E-tickets, but I rarely miss going on one.) It has definitely given me more time to stroll around the park, but I go too frequently to fall for the spending trap. I think Disney originally bet that with Fastpass, people would spend more time buying things and less time just waiting for another ride, but that's clearly been a miscalculation.

They'll never be able to test if the opposite is true, however, so their next best option was to find a way to charge for FastPass. Voila: MaxPass was born. Now you basically have to add on another upcharge to your ticket to get the experience we used to have all those years ago. It won't stop me from going and using it, just because Disneyland is worth way more money to me than they currently charge. It does mean that I may have to go less often because of my budget, though.

[bigcatrik]

FastPass can be a boost to your experience IF... you only or primarily visit Disneyland for E-tickets, AND... you are more familiar with crowds and wait-time trends than the average guest, and strategize your day accordingly. If you don't fit into both of those categories, FP is not helping you, and may actually be making your experience worse.

I think you also have to be a "one and done" rider. I like to ride certain rides multiple times so even on crowded days I've waited in line multiple times because the line moved at a decent speed, but with fastpass on more rides that may limit my reride opportunities. The one I'm worried about is Haunted Mansion. I haven't been since they added fastpass to the regular Mansion, but previously even with a significant number of people in line it was possible to take multiple rides within a reasonable time due to its traditional people-eating nature.

[Janis and Aaron]

I think you also have to be a "one and done" rider.

Not at all. In fact my favorite FP tactic is to get a FP and then get in the standby line. There have been many, many cases when the FP is ready for use by the time you're off the ride. In fact, we did this on 2 rides last Friday (CA Screamin' and Big Thunder). It's not hard to look at the FP return time just before getting in the standby line and doing the math to see if this plan will work out.

[Janis and Aaron]

yet still the customers believe the Disney PR spin that "we're doing this to improve your Disneyland experience."

Gosh, I must be more naïve than I think I am. Here I am, pretty pleased with getting on ride after ride with minimal wait due to FP, and all this time I've been duped by the Disney PR machine! I have been cruelly duped, I tell you!

(Or, you know, maybe FP is a tool like any other - useful to those who know how to use it, useless to everyone else. Some people don't bother to learn how to use it well. Not my problem. I'll keep zooming past them in line while filling my time between FP uses with an array of interesting things like shows, minor rides, shopping, and eating.)

[GwenRowan]

I mean? If that's your style then you're gonna be stuck with whatever a standby time is gonna be. You said you waited 45 mins. then got out of line. What was the displayed standby wait time when you got to the ride?

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"stuck with what ever a standby"..
dear.. do you think that is news?
that is the way it used to work..... we wait..... we understand that..

the standby time was.... what... 45 min at the entrance? but the line was not that long... should have been less than 45 minutes and thank you for bringing that up

if the sign had said... "says 45 minutes but we are ignoring standby people today" we would have walked past....

I know more than a few who've told me they waited in line for the fast pass then waited in line for over a half hour with the fast pass
makes sense when the line is two hours
but... then they stand around for a while waiting for the fast pass time