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  • #61
    Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

    Originally posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    Since AAs, according to some, don't 'sell' a show, it makes about as much sense to ask if POTC or JC would be just as popular without AAs. To that I also say 'Hell no'. It's characters that gives POTC life and popularity; also with HM and JC. Tangible real characters--many are even named. They are individuals in ways no 'projection' can be.
    This brings an interesting observation: Jungle Cruise does not have any AAs.

    The term Audio-Animatronic refers to a life like human figure that follows a pre determined program for movement and is synchronized with audio.

    The figures in the Jungle Cruise, at least the majority of them, are simple mechanical figures not programmed or controlled by a computer.

    So to ask if the Jungle Cruise would be popular with it's Audio-Animatronics the answer is clearly yes.

    Could they have built a Pirates attraction without AAs? Certainly they could, and it was Walt's original intent. Would it have been as good as the finished Pirates, maybe not, but that's not to say it would be bad either. Disney produced attractions without AAs that are still in the park today - and they're considered fairly good too.

    I think the question you have to ask is: would a new attraction be as interesting and entertaining without the AA figures. If it's not, than there's no reason in bringing AAs into the fold, because the AA figures themselves won't save an attraction.

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    • #62
      Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

      Originally posted by Datameister View Post
      By the way, be careful about the assumptions you make. I've seen one or two in this thread that I trust will be proven incorrect within the next few years.
      I'm guessing you may have heard the same rumors about Tomorrowland that I have, but I still feel confident enough that Disney will not spend the money to build another AA show again.

      And that's not to suggest that Disney has lowered their standards or lower the bar - it's simply a matter of tastes and styles that change over time. AAs have a lot going against them compared to other technologies and attractions.

      When it comes down to it, the public would rather have another Indy or Tower of Terror than another Small World, and Disney is all too happy to provide the public with what it wants.

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      • #63
        Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

        I'm guessing you may have heard the same rumors about Tomorrowland that I have, but I still feel confident enough that Disney will not spend the money to build another AA show again.
        That wasn't what I meant, though I'd really love to see an E-ticket of that magnitude built in Tomorrowland. Quite a dream of mine, actually...

        The term Audio-Animatronic refers to a life like human figure that follows a pre determined program for movement and is synchronized with audio.
        Mmmm, I think your definition is just a little bit off. The "audio" in "audio-animatronic" refers not to the fact that they're synchronized with audio--what then would happen to the silent, quivering prisoners standing by the well in POTC?--but to the fact that originally, their motions were relayed to them via audio signals engraved in discs. Also, they're generally lifelike...but human? That excludes the poor birds of the Enchanted Tiki Room.

        Also, if JC's figures don't use computer controls, what does control them? My in-depth technological know-how is far more limited than I'd like it to be, though I certainly know a lot more than your average guest and, I suppose, than your average MCer.

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        • #64
          Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

          I think it's pretty much over, sadly. I doubt we will ever see another AA show like the Tiki Room or Carousel again. Many of the reasons have already been covered by others so I won't go into it. I just think it's really sad. It's the end of an era and many of these AA attractions will be deemed too expensive to maintain and replaced with 3D projection based pseudo-film rides or something. That's the future unfortunately, spending whatever for your admission pass to watch movies.

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          • #65
            Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

            Electronically-controlled mechanical animation is a major competitive advantage for Disney. There is no better way to bring to life existing and new proprietary characters in the company's portfolio short of having live performers play said characters. But, this thread is, presumably, more about the musical variety show.

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            • #66
              Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

              Originally posted by MrLiver View Post
              When it comes down to it, the public would rather have another Indy or Tower of Terror than another Small World, and Disney is all too happy to provide the public with what it wants.
              I'd rather Disney shape public opinion rather than follow it.

              If there are rumors of a new AA show in Tomorrowland, I'd love to see another attraction about Space Exploration in the vein of Flight to the Moon. Combine the less vomit inducing aspects of Mission:Space with the aesthetic of a classic animatronic attraction and people will go. An Audio Animatronics show doesn't have to be all singing and edutainment.

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              • #67
                Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                Theater presentations, by their nature, have huge, fixed capacities, so these attractions always appear underutilized on a spreadsheet. But, the numbers don't account for the particular advantages these attractions possess over most walk-throughs and ride-throughs.

                Theatre presentations do serve a purpose in the overall mix.

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                • #68
                  Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                  Most audio animatronic theater presentations are geared toward the intelligent set that has a passion to learn about history, etc. Unfortunately, the masses would rather ride Space Mountain and Dumbo. While I LOVE these attractions and manny others, people really would get more out of a vacation or outing should they give fun learning experiences a chance.

                  Perhaps Disney should play the good symeritan and bribe people to attend the shows with Disney Dollars and/or fastpasses. :lol:
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                  • #69
                    Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                    Originally posted by MrLiver View Post
                    If the bear band show was worth it, people would have trekked up there to see it.

                    Obviously we don't say that Splash Mountain has attendance problems, and it's located even further back than the bears were.

                    And today Winnie The Pooh sees more guests that the Country Bears were.

                    Location in a theme park means almost nothing. If you have a show or an attraction worth seeing people will see it. The Country Bear Jamboree was just not worth seeing.
                    This is wrong - and proven in Disney Parks. Just changing the way a guest enters the attraction can have a huge impact. Journey into Imagination was the 2nd most popular attraction in Future World in EPCOT. They changed the entrance to the building to come in from the theatre side so people would know more about the show, and the JII show plunged to the bottom of the attendance figures.

                    We must remember that guests are IMPRESSIONABLE and may not always know what they are specifically going to see. You bury something... its going to reflect in the attendance as well.

                    Originally posted by MrLiver View Post
                    This brings an interesting observation: Jungle Cruise does not have any AAs.

                    The term Audio-Animatronic refers to a life like human figure that follows a pre determined program for movement and is synchronized with audio.
                    So you're saying the Tiki Room is not walt's first AA attraction? There are so many examples to debunk that claim its not even worthy of listing them.

                    It's not about being HUMAN - its about an animated 'figure' synchronized to a program. For decades, the analog version worked with being synchronized with a program recorded on audio tape who's sampling was set to the same rate as the audio to ensure synchronization.

                    The figures in the JC are synchronized to a program triggered by events rather then just a fixed time schedule like a POTC is.

                    Originally posted by MrLiver View Post
                    The figures in the Jungle Cruise, at least the majority of them, are simple mechanical figures not programmed or controlled by a computer.
                    None of Walt's AAs were controlled by computers. They were analog controlled devices. Another definition that is worthless.


                    Originally posted by MrLiver View Post
                    When it comes down to it, the public would rather have another Indy or Tower of Terror than another Small World, and Disney is all too happy to provide the public with what it wants.
                    Someone who just fills the PREEXISTING notions of what people want are not innovators. Disneyland itself would not exist if you just took the stance of just 'provide the public what it wants'. The point is to deliver product that the public will ENJOY and DESIRE - they may not know what they want. That's why we create NEW concepts, not just repeat the old.
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                    • #70
                      Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                      Originally posted by MrLiver View Post
                      This brings an interesting observation: Jungle Cruise does not have any AAs.

                      The term Audio-Animatronic refers to a life like human figure that follows a pre determined program for movement and is synchronized with audio.

                      The figures in the Jungle Cruise, at least the majority of them, are simple mechanical figures not programmed or controlled by a computer.

                      So to ask if the Jungle Cruise would be popular with it's Audio-Animatronics the answer is clearly yes.
                      I'm not sure how the term AA became strictly a human figure specifically because the Jungle Cruise does have AA's, same as Indy or POC. They are mechanical figures with predetermined motion set to a specific soundtrack and triggered by computer sensors. Break the sensor and the animals move and the sounds play, wait long enough and the animals stop moving and the sound stops.

                      I fail to see how the figures on POC or Indy are any different specifically because they are pre-programmed with crude movements as well. They may be more modern but they still move to a program timed to a soundtrack.
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                      • #71
                        Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                        Originally posted by MrLiver View Post

                        Obviously we don't say that Splash Mountain has attendance problems, and it's located even further back than the bears were.
                        'Obviously' is the whole point here. Splash Mountain is 'obvious' the way CBJ was not. One can see Splash Mountain from anywhere in Frontierland and most of NOS, not so with CBJ--in fact if it wasn't a 'dead end', you could've walked right by it!!
                        And today Winnie The Pooh sees more guests that the Country Bears were.
                        Opinion presented as fact is tedious and pointless. Additionally, are your unfounded assumptions made by using CBJ's last days as an indicator versus your guess as to Pooh's attendance in its relative 'newness'?
                        Location in a theme park means almost nothing. If you have a show or an attraction worth seeing people will see it. The Country Bear Jamboree was just not worth seeing
                        Location IS everything IMO, let me give you a prime example: Merchandise. How many Mickey plushes and hats do you think they would sell if one could only get them in the Festival of Fools area? Why do you think Disney puts virtually the same merchandise on every corner? Location sells. Convenience sells. This is elementary.

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                        • #72
                          Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                          Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
                          Electronically-controlled mechanical animation is a major competitive advantage for Disney. There is no better way to bring to life existing and new proprietary characters in the company's portfolio short of having live performers play said characters. But, this thread is, presumably, more about the musical variety show.
                          Not at all, Prag--or at least it was not my intention. It is about discussing the viability, the 'market', for new AA theatre-style entertainment, and the imporatant (sometimes underappreciated) role that AAs have played and still play (IMO) in DL's success.

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                          • #73
                            Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                            Originally posted by MrLiver View Post
                            This brings an interesting observation: Jungle Cruise does not have any AAs.
                            Actually, it has many--you should ride it sometime--they are great!

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                            • #74
                              Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                              Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                              That's not what I said at all. Your statement assumes they are the ONLY thing that makes the attraction popular or not. AAs are part of the 'solution' not THE solution - hence my statement that adding AAs to any old attraction regardless will not make it popular.

                              AAs are NOT the defining aspect of an attraction as seen by both popular and unpopular ones including them. The point is too much of one aspect without the other supporting elements will still fail. I provided examples of where AAs 'alone' can fail and what other elements should be included to help build the total package.

                              If you took all the AAs from POTC and put them in a simple ride structure like Snow white with just some cut-out flats it would not be nearly as popular. Because the AA's do not define the show alone!
                              'ONLY' thing? No--the MAIN thing. POTC, HM, and JC are stories told by and starring AAs. The sets are spectacular, but people show up to see the actors, IMO.

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                              • #75
                                Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                                Nice metaphor.... Yes, to remove the animatronics from the Disneyland experience would be like asking audiences to see a stageplay or a movie without actors.

                                The medium has really expanded all that the Disneyland experience has been able to become.

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                                • #76
                                  Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                                  Originally posted by Ride Warrior View Post
                                  Most audio animatronic theater presentations are geared toward the intelligent set that has a passion to learn about history, etc.
                                  What exactly was deep, intellectual, etc. about The Country Bear Jamboree?

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                                  • #77
                                    Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                                    Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
                                    What exactly was deep, intellectual, etc. about The Country Bear Jamboree?
                                    I don't know about you, but I sure learned a lot about country bear bands. Very eye opening.

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                                    • #78
                                      Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                                      Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
                                      What exactly was deep, intellectual, etc. about The Country Bear Jamboree?
                                      It offered many esoteric insights into the study of irony--such as having Henry (and Sammy) sing the praises of Davy Crockett who 'kill'd him a b'ar when he was only three'. Deep stuff.

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                                      • #79
                                        Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                                        I think somebody should write The sociological, economic, intellectual, historical, and cultural context of "The Country Bear Jamboree".

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                                        • #80
                                          Re: The Revival of the AA Theatre-Style Attraction

                                          Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
                                          I think somebody should write The sociological, economic, intellectual, historical, and cultural context of "The Country Bear Jamboree".
                                          Maybe The Influence of Depressed Foraging and Hunting Opportunities in the Creation of Folk Theater? Or, The Effects of Decreased Hibernation Periods Due to Overdemanding Entertainment Obligations?

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