No more discount for renewing APs: why? What are we missing?

[AstroJeff]

Because Disney knows they can pocket the discount themselves and it won't hurt AP sales. They know from long experience that no matter how much they charge for Annual Passports, or how many AP perks they remove, the number of Passholders who won't renew is negligible: Sales of Annual Passports will continue to increase.

As long as demand for its brands remains high, Disney will continue to raise the prices and lower the perks on its Passport products.

Since the renewal discount has been removed, do you think they’ll be any erosion in renewals, due to the fact there is no financial penalty to waiting 3 or 6 months, or even a year to renew? It opens the door for that money to be spent on something else.

[Nesboy43]

Since the renewal discount has been removed, do you think they’ll be any erosion in renewals, due to the fact there is no financial penalty to waiting 3 or 6 months, or even a year to renew? It opens the door for that money to be spent on something else.

I think there absolutely will be. It will no longer be a big consideration as the renewal cost as just as same as getting a new one. If someone is a bit sick of the parks and wants a break they can do so without any cost to them.

[whiteness]

I don't think there will be much difference because the renewal discount wasn't very significant, especially for lower passes. Let's say I pass up the $10-20 discount and wait an extra month to renew the socal select pass. Well, if you divide 349 by 12, that comes out to almost $30 a month. What was the discount renewal? $10? So by waiting just one month, I have actually saved $20 not been penalized $10. That savings grows every day I wait to renew.

You are assuming that people are thinking logically. People are not logical.

[Pips]

Since the renewal discount has been removed, do you think they’ll be any erosion in renewals, due to the fact there is no financial penalty to waiting 3 or 6 months, or even a year to renew? It opens the door for that money to be spent on something else.

Do we have any idea what percentage of AP holders "renew" anyhow? I mean, we're on a fan site, where many people love DL and would never let their AP expire. But I know from observing my own relatives over the years, whom I would characterize as fairly mainstream consumers, they wait until they're wound up to go -- maybe a birthday or something like that -- and then they buy a ticket and apply it to some AP or other.

Anyhow, I would for sure think there would be some erosion in renewals, but maybe that won't have as much impact on AP numbers as we on a fan site might think at first glance.

[Malcon10t]

I don't think there will be much difference because the renewal discount wasn't very significant, especially for lower passes. Let's say I pass up the $10-20 discount and wait an extra month to renew the socal select pass. Well, if you divide 349 by 12, that comes out to almost $30 a month. What was the discount renewal? $10? So by waiting just one month, I have actually saved $20 not been penalized $10. That savings grows every day I wait to renew.

The discount on the Sig Plus was either $60 or 80, and it went down from there.

But, I think they feel they don't need to make the discount to keep APs.

[zugzug15]

They will give other incentives to renew. example is the recent 13th month. If you wait to renew, you only get 12 months and wont get that bonus month.

[Malcon10t]

They will give other incentives to renew. example is the recent 13th month. If you wait to renew, you only get 12 months and wont get that bonus month.

True, but it was very limited incentive, and to add to that, it ruled out the renewal going into 2019.

[Natalie Price]

Here's what Disney has to say...

“We will be reshaping our Annual Pass program to better manage the guest experience throughout the year, which will help all Disneyland Resort guests have a great visit, particularly as we look forward to the opening of Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge in 2019.”

More APs is NOT what they have in mind because they admit the guest experience sucks because of the current AP program.

[Golden Zephyr]

Here's what Disney has to say...

“We will be reshaping our Annual Pass program to better manage the guest experience throughout the year, which will help all Disneyland Resort guests have a great visit, particularly as we look forward to the opening of Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge in 2019.”

More APs is NOT what they have in mind because they admit the guest experience sucks because of the current AP program.

I'm not sure I'd read that into the words. There isn't just one type of AP. It depends on the type of AP. I wouldn't conflate a SoCal select with the rarefied air of a Sig+, they are entirely different customers and value to Disney. Sig+ and Premier have among the highest Total Annual Spend on average of Disney customers. I heard once they are around 3-5% of passholders.

So it is important to consider that not all APs are the same, some are much more valuable than others and you see that in the benefits and enticements to different tiers of the program. It is not a monolith and shouldn't be analyzed as such. There is no such thing as just an "AP". There are tiers, classes if you will, and I'm quite sure that factors into Disney's calculus in regards to the program. If anything, I'd expect more benefits and enticements to VIP classes of APs like Premier and Signature Plus. They already added Max Pass this past year.

[Eagleman]

Disneyland, slowing losing Magical Feeling
guest experience is down - but it will be more expensive for everyone !
And I Sure you Disney does not care .............what I think.......

[MouseObsessed]

I'm not sure I'd read that into the words. There isn't just one type of AP. It depends on the type of AP. I wouldn't conflate a SoCal select with the rarefied air of a Sig+, they are entirely different customers and value to Disney. Sig+ and Premier have among the highest Total Annual Spend on average of Disney customers. I heard once they are around 3-5% of passholders.

So it is important to consider that not all APs are the same, some are much more valuable than others and you see that in the benefits and enticements to different tiers of the program. It is not a monolith and shouldn't be analyzed as such. There is no such thing as just an "AP". There are tiers, classes if you will, and I'm quite sure that factors into Disney's calculus in regards to the program. If anything, I'd expect more benefits and enticements to VIP classes of APs like Premier and Signature Plus. They already added Max Pass this past year.

See, this is my family. After a 3 year break from having passes because we were too swamped with high school sports, we came back in late 2016 with Sig passes. I think those passes were $849, so that was $3396, and we added MaxPass as soon as we could, to the tune of another $300. I can guarantee that over 12 months we spent more than $3696 in the parks. We went at least 40 times, and saying that we spent $100 on average per trip is probably underestimating. We renewed as Sig+, paying $3946 for the 4 passes (renewal discount), and getting our extra month. If we can find the time to go as often as last year I suspect that we'll come close to spending on food + merch what we spent on the passes. (We probably spent another $800 on gasoline, and we ate at In 'N Out several times, but Disney doesn't get that money.)

It's a lot of money -- I know that. We could go to Europe -- I know that too. But instead, we spent 40+ fantastic days at one of our favorite places, with our favorite people (each other and our sons). Disney has accommodations for disability, something that would be difficult touring Europe, and for celiac disease also, something that makes travel with my son difficult. I'm not a lounge on the beach in Hawaii person, and I'd really rather not fly anywhere for a vacation. DH has a hard time taking off work for several week vacations, and when we do get away we usually go to nature locations in the west. We actually live simply, living in our "starter" house, with one vehicle paid for and 6 years old, and the other bought used. I'm not into clothes or shoes. We spend money on two major hobbies -- bicycle racing (really a sport, not a hobby), and Disney. Disney is what helps me stay sane through all the bike racing, lol!

I hate the constant harping on annual pass holders as people who unfairly take up space in the parks without spending money. If annual passports weren't profitable, Disney wouldn't offer them. Disney wants and needs annual pass holders, period. They market to them aggressively, and over the years have added more and more items and activities aimed directly at pass holders (and they added payments, which is clearly to get people to buy annual passes even if they can't afford to pay upfront). As recently as 7-10 years ago we could go to Disney on a random day in November or February and feel like we had the park to ourselves (I think there were fewer pass holders during the last big recession). I talk to people about how we didn't need a stroller 15 years ago, and they are amazed to think of a park so uncrowded that we could follow toddlers around without them getting crushed. Disney has actively attempted to get annual pass holders, period.

I have had friends who get the Select pass and take their own food most of the time. But they aren't hurting anyone. Disney wants the bodies in the parks on those days.

[Natalie Price]

See, this is my family. After a 3 year break from having passes because we were too swamped with high school sports, we came back in late 2016 with Sig passes. I think those passes were $849, so that was $3396, and we added MaxPass as soon as we could, to the tune of another $300. I can guarantee that over 12 months we spent more than $3696 in the parks. We went at least 40 times, and saying that we spent $100 on average per trip is probably underestimating. We renewed as Sig+, paying $3946 for the 4 passes (renewal discount), and getting our extra month. If we can find the time to go as often as last year I suspect that we'll come close to spending on food + merch what we spent on the passes. (We probably spent another $800 on gasoline, and we ate at In 'N Out several times, but Disney doesn't get that money.)

It's a lot of money -- I know that. We could go to Europe -- I know that too. But instead, we spent 40+ fantastic days at one of our favorite places, with our favorite people (each other and our sons). Disney has accommodations for disability, something that would be difficult touring Europe, and for celiac disease also, something that makes travel with my son difficult. I'm not a lounge on the beach in Hawaii person, and I'd really rather not fly anywhere for a vacation. DH has a hard time taking off work for several week vacations, and when we do get away we usually go to nature locations in the west. We actually live simply, living in our "starter" house, with one vehicle paid for and 6 years old, and the other bought used. I'm not into clothes or shoes. We spend money on two major hobbies -- bicycle racing (really a sport, not a hobby), and Disney. Disney is what helps me stay sane through all the bike racing, lol!

I hate the constant harping on annual pass holders as people who unfairly take up space in the parks without spending money. If annual passports weren't profitable, Disney wouldn't offer them. Disney wants and needs annual pass holders, period. They market to them aggressively, and over the years have added more and more items and activities aimed directly at pass holders (and they added payments, which is clearly to get people to buy annual passes even if they can't afford to pay upfront). As recently as 7-10 years ago we could go to Disney on a random day in November or February and feel like we had the park to ourselves (I think there were fewer pass holders during the last big recession). I talk to people about how we didn't need a stroller 15 years ago, and they are amazed to think of a park so uncrowded that we could follow toddlers around without them getting crushed. Disney has actively attempted to get annual pass holders, period.

I have had friends who get the Select pass and take their own food most of the time. But they aren't hurting anyone. Disney wants the bodies in the parks on those days.

So why are they doing this...

“We will be reshaping our Annual Pass program to better manage the guest experience throughout the year, which will help all Disneyland Resort guests have a great visit, particularly as we look forward to the opening of Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge in 2019.”

It doesn't sound like the "reshaping" is meant to get more passholders into the parks. It's obvious they're trying to reduce the numbers. Key points: reshaping annual pass program • better manage guest experience • help all guests have a great visit • no more discounts for renewing

[Eagleman]

So Cal pass issue. It's way too cheap and overuse.
Disney going get RID of So.Calif. low Tier AP's before Disney open Star War Land
IMO

[Malcon10t]

So why are they doing this...

“We will be reshaping our Annual Pass program to better manage the guest experience throughout the year, which will help all Disneyland Resort guests have a great visit, particularly as we look forward to the opening of Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge in 2019.”

It doesn't sound like the "reshaping" is meant to get more passholders into the parks. It's obvious they're trying to reduce the numbers. Key points: reshaping annual pass program • better manage guest experience • help all guests have a great visit • no more discounts for renewing

I think you are reading more into the words than are there. Annual passholders are highly profitable to Disney. They will be reshaping. My guess, Deluxe passes will only access DCA on Sundays. SoCal passes will be more limited. They have their purpose. But they may have more blocks to DL. Signature passes will probably have DCA only on Saturdays. Plus and premier passes will stay wide open. They are building towards handling SW:GE. They are not trying to reduce numbers. They are preparing pass holders to realize before opening GE there will be blocks.

While people like to blame all the crowding on APs, please also note we complain about all the ticket holders in line in the morning getting their picture taken. On Dec 26th, the parks were filled to the brim, and yet APs were only 8-9% of the population. Disneyland is a popular tourist attraction in addition to having a higher AP turn out.

[Natalie Price]

I roll my eyes and shake my head at those who are firmly convinced APs are NOT the source of overcrowding. Now that's living in Fantasyland!

[Malcon10t]

I roll my eyes and shake my head at those who are firmly convinced APs are NOT the source of overcrowding. Now that's living in Fantasyland!

So on Saturdays, when only the upper level tiers are unblocked, APs cause it to be crowded?

[skoolpsyk]

So on Saturdays, when only the upper level tiers are unblocked, APs cause it to be crowded?

that's a great question, because all the crowd forecasting sights show Saturdays as being the most crowded. Here's an example of touringplans for this week:

Below are the predicted resort-wide crowd numbers for select days generated by the TouringPlans professional statisticians as measured for the upcoming week. For the access to the full year and per-park crowd level predictions, visit our Crowd Calendar.

Tuesday, February 13, 2018	4 / 10
Wednesday, February 14, 2018	3 / 10
Thursday, February 15, 2018	5 / 10
Friday, February 16, 2018	5 / 10
Saturday, February 17, 2018	8 / 10

[Malcon10t]

that's a great question, because all the crowd forecasting sights show Saturdays as being the most crowded. Here's an example of touringplans for this week:

Both Sat and Sun this weekend are blocked out to all passes except the Signatures. I expect it to be very crowded. Will report back after we return.

[longbeachaztec]

When people talk about over crowding trends, I think it mostly refers to the unpredictability of the off season. Once upon a time it was easy to find slow, light days in the park. Those days still exist, but seem much more sporadic and hard to predict, and that's a direct result of the local AP explosion.

Saturdays are crowded because they're Saturdays. The difference is that everybody expects them to be busier, so it's not thought of as "over crowding" to the same extent as the odd Thursday in January where you still find yourself tripping over people at every turn.

I think the cloning effect of FastPass plays a role, too, but a secondary one, IMO.

[DarthBrett78]

Which APs were blocked yesterday? I was at DL the past 3 days and Sun was busy, Mon was just as busy until the rain came around 8 and cleared the parks out and yesterday,Tue, it was dead the entire day.