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No more discount for renewing APs: why? What are we missing?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by denyuntilcaught View Post
    I don't see the big deal in eliminating monthly payments. Seems like a relatively simple solution to trim the AP population, which is clearly desired.
    Agreed. The quickest, simplest way to go back to the days before monthly payments...is to go back to no monthly payments.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by therockchild View Post

      Ticket holders are nearly as bad. I was JUST there the last week of January. The lines to get tickets were long. I was also actively looking at people who had a pass and who did not while going through the gates. You can tell when the line kept stalling because people have to take a photo and sign their ticket. There may be a large number of AP's but there is also a large amount of ticket holders as well. Why else would they raise ticket costs? They will raise them again before Star Wars opens as well.

      It's way too early to speculate what "reshape" even means for the annual passes. It could be way more blackout dates, the removal of so cal select for the next several years etc. Annual passes are their bread and butter, they make so much money off of it.

      People forget this place is a business, I guarantee you when the board of directors gets together they don't say "You guys, the parks are too busy. We need to do something about that." Unless they are losing money because of guest complaints they won't bat an eye at crowds. They more likely saying "This is going to be like Cars Land or New Years when Star Wars opens, we have to adjust to avoid turning people away at the gates and causing over capacity." They know if its bad its going to be a press and social media nightmare. So the passes will be adjusted around the fact the new land is opening next year.

      They know the park will be busy, they know the new land only holds so many people. They are going to have to regulate the people going in by only letting people in once people leave. There is going to be hours of waiting just to get in. Star Wars is going to be like when Cars Land opened only worse. So they are trying to find ways to prevent that from happening while still being able to make $$$$.

      How much "reshaping" to passes....only time will tell. It may be the passes get adjusted only for the new land opening and once the "newness" and crowds wears off the passes will be readjusted again in a few years. We can speculate but who knows how much will change, we won't know until closer to and someone leaks it out.
      Still rolling my eyes and shaking my head.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Natalie Price View Post

        Agreed. The quickest, simplest way to go back to the days before monthly payments...is to go back to no monthly payments.
        Actually the quicker way would be to only let 10,000 people into the park at one time. That solves the crowd problem that everyone has been wanting. But of course, just like in life, you trade one problem for another problem.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Natalie Price View Post

          Still rolling my eyes and shaking my head.
          There will be changes to the AP program. No doubt about that. What do I expect in the changes? Deluxe and Signature will go to DCA only on weekends. (Deluxe will block out Sat, Sun will be DCA only. Signature will have DCA only on Sats.) There will be more block outs for the SoCal passes and days like Fridays will be DCA only. Timing around GE opening will see lower level passes blocked out around the opening, or limited to DCA. Will they drop the AP payment plan? I don't think so. Will there be another increase? Parks are really crowded this weekend. All 3 resort hotels are fully booked. But APs deluxe and below are blocked out. But there are plenty of suits out checking things out, making sure all is running well.
          If you see a cute yellow lab puppy with a yellow cape, WAVE! It might be us! (Or it may be someone else that lurks here!) Thank you for asking before you pet! Next trip, Dec 22-Jan 3rd.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Malcon10t View Post
            There will be changes to the AP program. No doubt about that. What do I expect in the changes? Deluxe and Signature will go to DCA only on weekends. (Deluxe will block out Sat, Sun will be DCA only. Signature will have DCA only on Sats.) There will be more block outs for the SoCal passes and days like Fridays will be DCA only. Timing around GE opening will see lower level passes blocked out around the opening, or limited to DCA. Will they drop the AP payment plan? I don't think so. Will there be another increase? Parks are really crowded this weekend. All 3 resort hotels are fully booked. But APs deluxe and below are blocked out. But there are plenty of suits out checking things out, making sure all is running well.
            I agree. That sounds about right.
            myparkflair.com

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            • #66
              ^^^ None of those changes will happen to any pass that was already purchased and it is unlikely to happen in the future unless they stop selling all existing pass types. Even then, they can't change the terms and conditions on which the pass was already purchased and reduce its value so any pass sold today or purchased but not redeemed will have to be honored as originally sold. It is why when they eliminated the premium AP, they had to issue a Signature Plus AP to all unredeemed Premiums that were already purchased up through a year later. The Sig+ was the only pass that had equivalent value to the Premium AP and Disney had no choice. Disney can certainly add benefits but can not subtract benefits from any sold pass type without offering equivalent renumeration.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post
                ^^^ None of those changes will happen to any pass that was already purchased and it is unlikely to happen in the future unless they stop selling all existing pass types. Even then, they can't change the terms and conditions on which the pass was already purchased and reduce its value so any pass sold today or purchased but not redeemed will have to be honored as originally sold. It is why when they eliminated the premium AP, they had to issue a Signature Plus AP to all unredeemed Premiums that were already purchased up through a year later. The Sig+ was the only pass that had equivalent value to the Premium AP and Disney had no choice. Disney can certainly add benefits but can not subtract benefits from any sold pass type without offering equivalent renumeration.
                But they have the time to make changes so any existing or new pass will run out it's contract by the time Star Wars Land opens. I'm guessing changes will take place in April for new or renewed passes.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Natalie Price View Post

                  But they have the time to make changes so any existing or new pass will run out it's contract by the time Star Wars Land opens. I'm guessing changes will take place in April for new or renewed passes.
                  I personally share some of your sentiments on negative impacts and hope that the program is improved in a way that adds value to me as a consumer. Indeed they might, we'll all be watching closely to see. If no changes happen by April, then it would be advisable for people who are planning on having a pass in 2019 to purchase them now if they believe that "reshaping" would look anything like some of the proposals mentioned.

                  So already anyone who purchases a pass voucher today would have unchanged benefits till Feb of 2020 provided they don't redeem their pass till next year.

                  However, I don't think any of the draconian proposals will come to pass as it makes little business sense and greatly overestimates the actual value of what an AP provides and what would appeal to the consumer for purchase. Its why year after many, people get vexed about the way Disney appears to manage the program. Disney manages in a way that meets their business objectives, many of which we are not privy to.

                  Unless someone is a board member of IAAPA, an executive in the industry, or has familiarity with pricing theory and microeconomic principals, it is unlikely they understand the economics behind Annual Pass programs, how they are priced, and why they are such an important part of the revenue matrix.

                  The people making those decisions for Disney have mountains of quantitative data that we do not possess. The team that decides what "reshaping" will look like will be composed of pricing analysts, economists, and industry executives who will do what they believe is best for the Disney corporation to meet its goals. We may or may not be happy individually with what "reshaping" looks like, but it is and always will be what Disney considers best for its business and shareholders.
                  Last edited by Golden Zephyr; 02-19-2018, 07:15 AM.

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                  • #69
                    They don't have to give a renewal discount because they know people are going to buy them again and for the most part they are correct. In their view they are losing money by giving a discount. Discounts are used to entice customers into buying something that they would not have bought otherwise. Disneyland knows they have got you hooked and doesn't need give up profits to get you to buy.
                    Last edited by tarheelalum; 02-19-2018, 03:25 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by tarheelalum View Post
                      They don't have to give a renewal discount because they know people are going to buy them again and for the most part they are correct. In their view they are losing money but giving a discount. Discounts are used to entice customers into buying something that they would not have bought otherwise. Disneyland knows they have got you hooked and doesn't need give up profits to get you to buy.
                      Yes, but people could hold off renewing until their next visit. Disney would probably prefer that people renew immediately rather than waiting, which is why they offered a discount for renewing immediately.
                      Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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                      • #71
                        NEW-Ball Game with AP's
                        Soaring like an EAGLE !

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by whiteness View Post

                          Yes, but people could hold off renewing until their next visit. Disney would probably prefer that people renew immediately rather than waiting, which is why they offered a discount for renewing immediately.
                          That is true and some people will just forget or decide to not do it. But I think Disney feels most will do so and they are probably correct. At least until the next recession starts.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Natalie Price View Post

                            But they have the time to make changes so any existing or new pass will run out it's contract by the time Star Wars Land opens. I'm guessing changes will take place in April for new or renewed passes.
                            RIGHT.......Disney have year away to make changes...before Star Wars Land opens!
                            It going get interesting..........
                            Soaring like an EAGLE !

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post
                              So already anyone who purchases a pass voucher today would have unchanged benefits till Feb of 2020 provided they don't redeem their pass till next year..
                              Here is the thing. People have purchased the passes prior to knowing what the blocks will be. Block out days have only been announced thru Jan 2019. People own passes where they have not been told what the blocks will be in Feb 2019. Disney's terms of service also states "Subject to change." If you have a voucher for Signature Plus or Premier, they will hold for "No Blockouts, both parks every day", all other passes will have block out dates, and they haven't announced those dates beyond Jan 2019 (as of this morning.)
                              If you see a cute yellow lab puppy with a yellow cape, WAVE! It might be us! (Or it may be someone else that lurks here!) Thank you for asking before you pet! Next trip, Dec 22-Jan 3rd.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Malcon10t View Post

                                Here is the thing. People have purchased the passes prior to knowing what the blocks will be. Block out days have only been announced thru Jan 2019. People own passes where they have not been told what the blocks will be in Feb 2019. Disney's terms of service also states "Subject to change." If you have a voucher for Signature Plus or Premier, they will hold for "No Blockouts, both parks every day", all other passes will have block out dates, and they haven't announced those dates beyond Jan 2019 (as of this morning.)
                                Close, We agree on Signature Plus and Premier and benefits such as parking which is included in the price.

                                On other passes a bit grey but they would have to provide something that had no additional blockouts from what was originally offered or offer equivalent renumeration (like the same price or a full refund) or Disney would face a prima facie case for rescission on those unredeemed passes. Not to worry, I'm sure Disney legal is fully aware of that and more and would never let a sloppy decision pass. Any changes will be handled with appropriate renumeration, just as they did when they changed the program with the elimination of the Premium AP.
                                Last edited by Golden Zephyr; 02-19-2018, 07:01 PM.

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