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  • #61
    Originally posted by zugzug15 View Post
    I don't understand the high level of hatred this is getting... its "TOYS" taking over a pizza place... its intentionally designed to make it look like a KID who would play with little green aliens took over the restaurant. I love it because its doing exactly what Disneyland is SUPPOSED to do and that's make me feel like a little kid again.
    Because that is not the theme that people wanted. They wanted the more accurate portrayal of the restaurant as seen in the actual movie. I knew something was off when they decided to name this "Alien Pizza Planet" instead of just "Pizza Planet". Given Disney's move toward immersion, I'm also quite surprised at this lack of effort, especially since I had expected this to be a more long term layover the way Red Rose Tavern is. It seems like that won't be the case here if they're not going to even make a real sign for it.

    On the other hand, this at least still more accurate to them than the sad excuse of a Pizza Planet once made for Hollywood Studios in Disney World (and has thankfully closed). I'd post pics but my comp would crash. Just look it up.

    Comment


    • #62
      Bob Chapek - ""Plastic Salesman""
      TACKY,media and consumer re-brand marketeers.......
      He has cheapened everything he does - every part of the organization
      Soaring like an EAGLE !

      Comment


      • #63
        LOL! I love it. Current Disney at its finest. If you want to make cheap crap, all you have to do is THEME it to cheap crap and it's totally ok! Brilliant!!

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by toonaspie View Post

          Because that is not the theme that people wanted. They wanted the more accurate portrayal of the restaurant as seen in the actual movie.
          I’m not sure Disneyland is SUPPOSED to make you feel like a little kid again, to quote a previous poster. But I do know without a shadow of a doubt that it is SUPPOSED to transport you to the world of yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy. By putting up a real Pizza Planet sign and theming the interior you are allowed to escape into this fantasy of being in the real Pizza Planet. A banner serves as a reminder that all is just temporary and the facade - including any immersion will soon be removed.

          Comment


          • #65
            The lessons and rules governing effective theming that Walt Disney spent more than a decade perfecting, and which were further refined the decades after that, have been utterly thrown out the window.

            Comment


            • #66
              I'm going to throw a devil's advocate opinion out there. Anybody remember this blog from about five years ago, here on MiceChat?

              It includes a story about WDI using their show quality authority to make an operations group upgrade a certain show piece. The group was paying $10 per piece, but had to upgrade to something that cost approximately $1,000 - a 100x increase. What was the show piece in question? A temporary stroller parking sign that was only used a month or two out of the year. Thanks to WDI's concern over "quality," they went from a few bucks that barely even showed up on the budget, to having to make conscious cuts elsewhere to suit the creatives.

              The overall point of the blog was that WDI's internal monopoly over show quality (while built on strong traditions) makes everything Disney does far more expensive than true market value. The exact same attractions could be built by an outside contractor at significantly less cost. But, Disney tradition demands that everything be kept internal. There have been other rumblings on MiceChat and elsewhere that Disney management has less patience with WDI's methods and cost premiums these days. Apparently they have a growing reputation for completing every project late and over their already premium budgets.

              With that in mind, I can easily see management putting their foot down over something like this restaurant sign - i.e: "No Mr./Ms. Imagineer. You are not going to add an extra five figures to this budget for a new sign that an external contractor could complete for half that cost. Do it at market value, or else."

              Now this is an accountant's perspective, and I'm sure someone from the creative side would argue a different perspective. But, dollars are still dollars, and there has to be a limit on how much Disney management will care about creative quality so long as WDI drives up costs with their bidding monopoly.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by longbeachaztec View Post
                I'm going to throw a devil's advocate opinion out there. Anybody remember this blog from about five years ago, here on MiceChat?

                It includes a story about WDI using their show quality authority to make an operations group upgrade a certain show piece. The group was paying $10 per piece, but had to upgrade to something that cost approximately $1,000 - a 100x increase. What was the show piece in question? A temporary stroller parking sign that was only used a month or two out of the year. Thanks to WDI's concern over "quality," they went from a few bucks that barely even showed up on the budget, to having to make conscious cuts elsewhere to suit the creatives.

                The overall point of the blog was that WDI's internal monopoly over show quality (while built on strong traditions) makes everything Disney does far more expensive than true market value. The exact same attractions could be built by an outside contractor at significantly less cost. But, Disney tradition demands that everything be kept internal. There have been other rumblings on MiceChat and elsewhere that Disney management has less patience with WDI's methods and cost premiums these days. Apparently they have a growing reputation for completing every project late and over their already premium budgets.

                With that in mind, I can easily see management putting their foot down over something like this restaurant sign - i.e: "No Mr./Ms. Imagineer. You are not going to add an extra five figures to this budget for a new sign that an external contractor could complete for half that cost. Do it at market value, or else."

                Now this is an accountant's perspective, and I'm sure someone from the creative side would argue a different perspective. But, dollars are still dollars, and there has to be a limit on how much Disney management will care about creative quality so long as WDI drives up costs with their bidding monopoly.
                The problem is of course the culture of "cheapening" starts a form of the "broken window theory". The cheapening gives "license" and the supposed savings from going cheap don't actually flow into other things to make the park better. It simply encourages management to cut further and expand their "era of limits" type thinking.

                It is why Chapek has an army of "efficiency experts" who sole job around the parks is to eternally ask the question "can we cut it?". "How much can we reduce the quality without people noticing it."

                It in little things to the big things. They cut amenities in hotels, use cheaper soaps, sheets and materials, reduce food quality all the way down to cheapening the quality of a ketchup packet. The reduce the number of staff and slow boil the consumer over time to "condition" them to the new normal.

                It is this relentless drive towards the cheapening of everything that is the hallmark of Chapek. He did it in consumer products, cheaper quality, reduction in R&D, streamlining, homogenization, etc.

                It is rewarded because quality and creativity are hard. Anyone can take a successful enterprise like Disney and "cut" your way to profit, or recycle ideas and concepts till they are threadbare (Pixar parade in DL). However to revolutionize in a way that sets a new standard for quality and excellence and a commitment to do so, despite the risks is just something that is very very hard in any corporation today which is why philistines like Chapek rise to the top.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Right Down Broadway View Post
                  Normal guests? Haven't you seen the posts from members here--supposedly fans--who wholeheartedly believe this is top-shelf quality?

                  We have seen the enemy...
                  Who? This post along with one I saw on Facebook were people making fun of the lack of imagination and money put into this sign.


                  Through yeah, ironically many hardcore fans who support Disney No matter what are also part of the problem. I have had an AP for a few years because of both the price and lack of anything new I felt was high quality Disney....others don't care what Disney cooks up.
                  Happy Halloween!!!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
                    Who?
                    I was specifically referring to posts 29, 41, 43 and 45 when I made my post.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Right Down Broadway View Post
                      I was specifically referring to posts 29, 41, 43 and 45 when I made my post.
                      Think they are all in Disney Denial
                      Happy Halloween!!!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by longbeachaztec View Post
                        I'm going to throw a devil's advocate opinion out there. Anybody remember this blog from about five years ago, here on MiceChat?

                        It includes a story about WDI using their show quality authority to make an operations group upgrade a certain show piece. The group was paying $10 per piece, but had to upgrade to something that cost approximately $1,000 - a 100x increase. What was the show piece in question? A temporary stroller parking sign that was only used a month or two out of the year. Thanks to WDI's concern over "quality," they went from a few bucks that barely even showed up on the budget, to having to make conscious cuts elsewhere to suit the creatives.

                        The overall point of the blog was that WDI's internal monopoly over show quality (while built on strong traditions) makes everything Disney does far more expensive than true market value. The exact same attractions could be built by an outside contractor at significantly less cost. But, Disney tradition demands that everything be kept internal. There have been other rumblings on MiceChat and elsewhere that Disney management has less patience with WDI's methods and cost premiums these days. Apparently they have a growing reputation for completing every project late and over their already premium budgets.

                        With that in mind, I can easily see management putting their foot down over something like this restaurant sign - i.e: "No Mr./Ms. Imagineer. You are not going to add an extra five figures to this budget for a new sign that an external contractor could complete for half that cost. Do it at market value, or else."

                        Now this is an accountant's perspective, and I'm sure someone from the creative side would argue a different perspective. But, dollars are still dollars, and there has to be a limit on how much Disney management will care about creative quality so long as WDI drives up costs with their bidding monopoly.

                        This argument is an example of the mindset that has dominated the "Roy faction" (finance) of the Company since Disneyland's earliest days. It is based on the assumption that Walt and his creatives were inherently unable to control costs -- that creativity is always overpriced and dangerous to the financial health of the company. It is a polarizing, even tribal, mindset that dominates Disney management today.

                        It conveniently ignores the reality of how creativity built Disneyland into a money-making business in the first place.

                        "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
                        Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
                        imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

                        - Neil Gabler

                        "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
                        until Thor told it to me."
                        -
                        Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post
                          ...It is this relentless drive towards the cheapening of everything that is the hallmark of Chapek. He did it in consumer products, cheaper quality, reduction in R&D, streamlining, homogenization, etc.
                          It's a tradition that goes back to Paul Pressler. Inspecting the Cafe Orleans, he pointed to the non-functioning antique espresso machine on the counter (Walt bought it on one of his trips to add authenticity to the restaurant's decor), and demanded to know "what that thing is doing there." He wanted it replaced with a functioning juice machine that made money. He was talked out of it.

                          Creative theming won that battle but lost the war: Iger and his appointees have continued Eisner's view of DLR and WDW as marketing malls for the promotion of Disney's portfolio of brands.


                          "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
                          Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
                          imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

                          - Neil Gabler

                          "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
                          until Thor told it to me."
                          -
                          Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                            It's a tradition that goes back to Paul Pressler. Inspecting the Cafe Orleans, he pointed to the non-functioning antique espresso machine on the counter (Walt bought it on one of his trips to add authenticity to the restaurant's decor), and demanded to know "what that thing is doing there." He wanted it replaced with a functioning juice machine that made money. He was talked out of it.

                            Creative theming won that battle but lost the war: Iger and his appointees have continued Eisner's view of DLR and WDW as marketing malls for the promotion of Disney's portfolio of brands.

                            Excerpt 1998 article:

                            "When Disney Stores merchandising whiz Paul Pressler was named president of Disneyland in 1994 at age 40, he realized he had inherited a team of generalists trained in Walt Disney's system. He also decided that the park's food-service operation needed new blood. These days, food is merchandising, too, as illustrated by the success of Planet Hollywood and the Hard Rock Cafe. So, after Disney's exhaustive executive search, [Michael P.] Berry was coaxed into accepting the position by an insistent Pressler."

                            Full article here: http://articles.latimes.com/1998/feb...azine/tm-14193


                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I think the sign was decent ( not great ) in concept but poorly executed. The internal decor changes seem almost permanent in their quality and application but this signage is a diservice to the whole project. It's like putting on a tuxedo and then covering your face with a paper bag.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post


                                This argument is an example of the mindset that has dominated the "Roy faction" (finance) of the Company since Disneyland's earliest days. It is based on the assumption that Walt and his creatives were inherently unable to control costs -- that creativity is always overpriced and dangerous to the financial health of the company. It is a polarizing, even tribal, mindset that dominates Disney management today.
                                I think it's a mistake to make this such a black/white issue and invoke Walt.

                                Nobody else in the industry is spending anywhere close to Disney's level of CapEx. But, if you research the issue, there is every reason to believe that Disney's structure regularly results in higher costs. It's not a slam on creativity. It's a slam on monopoly.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post
                                  It is why Chapek has an army of "efficiency experts" who sole job around the parks is to eternally ask the question "can we cut it?"
                                  Can you cite a source for this information? I've never heard of such a group in P&R before.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                                    I think the sign was decent ( not great ) in concept but poorly executed. The internal decor changes seem almost permanent in their quality and application but this signage is a diservice to the whole project. It's like putting on a tuxedo and then covering your face with a paper bag.
                                    A tribute to former Disney star Shia Labeouf, to be sure:

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post

                                      A tribute to former Disney star Shia Labeouf, to be sure:

                                      LOL! I was thinking more the look of the Unknown Comic ( showing my age a bit ). Either way all three seem to fail in execution.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                                        Creative theming won that battle but lost the war: Iger and his appointees have continued Eisner's view of DLR and WDW as marketing malls for the promotion of Disney's portfolio of brands.
                                        -
                                        Profiteering - for Wall Street - Slam on Creativity !
                                        It call "Cheapening".......must be a Bull Market........company full of Bull......imo


                                        Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by longbeachaztec View Post
                                          Can you cite a source for this information? I've never heard of such a group in P&R before.
                                          "Everybody's An Efficiency Expert" has been built into management since Eisner arrived. The best way you move up the competitive ladder is by pitching ideas to cut costs.

                                          Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 04-16-2018, 03:00 PM.
                                          "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
                                          Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
                                          imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

                                          - Neil Gabler

                                          "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
                                          until Thor told it to me."
                                          -
                                          Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony

                                          Comment

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