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If we want lower crowds, then ticket prices need to go WAY up

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  • If we want lower crowds, then ticket prices need to go WAY up

    Overcrowding has been a problem at Disneyland for a while. it's nothing new, but with the annual passholders adding to the daily mass of tourists, it can be very overwhelming. I always plan for a crowded day, even when it seems it should be light. I make the most of it, but I can understand the stress of having to wait in line, or even snake slowly along the way to find an exit. I see a lot of people that say that Disney needs to put a lower attendance cap on their capacity to deal with the crowds. Capacity isn't just a convenience issue, but a safety one as well and is often the decision of the city and state. Disney is also trying to enact a peak pay season where those going in the summer are going to be charged more then those going in mid January. Yet the park can still feel claustrophobic. The argument I need to throw is that if we want lower crowds, then tickets and annual passes need to increase higher in price.

    I'm sure some of you are thinking, "No way! Disney is my home and I need it to be easy for me to get in". This is the mindset of every vacationer that comes to California that expects a trip to Disneyland. But heres the thing; you can have a cheap Disneyland or an uncrowded Disneyland, but you can't have both.

    This is a matter of supply and demand, and Disney is in a stage in which everyone loves it and wants to continue experiencing those warm feelings they got when they were children. I pay each year for the AP Signature Pass which is already almost a $1000. This entitles free parking and a discount on food and merchandise. In order to make it worthwhile, I just need to visit 10 times a year to make it worth it. I know people who will go more then that, sometimes once a week, sometimes even more. So even if you have a lower tier pass, your still getting a better deal then the family from Iowa whose paying for park hoppers, hotel, food, and airfare. Park Hoppers and One Park Tickets are still a good deal, given we have 35 rides, several live shows, and an atmosphere you can't get from home. Business owners can tell you that at the end of the day, you first pay your bills, then your debts, then your employees, and last, yourself. Everything that runs at the park is being paid for by Disney and we as guests are flipping the bill.

    Overcrowded places like this try to elevate conditions by making things more efficient, whether it's widening the walkways, mobile food ordering and fast passes (which you could debate makes the problem worse). But that's not enough? Disney needs to put a tighter cap of capacity. To make that financially feasible, tickets would need to jump from $100 to $500 and AP passes would need to climb from $600-$1000 to $3000-$10,000. This would make up the fact that Disney would be losing money from not as many people coming in to buy merchandise and food.

    To say, "Disney can simply divide their company profits around more and give the parks & resorts more money" won't work. Large businesses set specific budgets for each section and how much needs to be sold to make a profit. To take money from the studio and put it into Disneyland would be to remove money from another department. You like the less crowded parks? That's because no movies were made this year to make up for that.

    Whats good about the free market and demand is that us, the people control it. Ticket prices could go lower if we simply don't go. Without people coming in, Disney would get the message that it's prices are too high and they would have to lower their prices accordingly. This is what happened after September 11th and travel was at an all time low. I'm not suggesting something bad should happen, but if we complain about the crazy crowds invading Disneyland, we really have no one to blame but ourselves. We constantly demand to go back over and over. We want to see all the stuff offered. We want to give in to the things that are sold seasonally.

    Given how much we pay now, we need to ask, "Is it really that bad?" What are your thoughts?
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  • #2
    Disney wants bigger crowds. Bigger crowds mean BIGGER PROFITS and that is all Disney truly cares about. Prices on annual passes have already gone way up and so has attendance. Increasing prices for annual pass holders encourages more attendance. They go more to justify the extra cost to feel as if they are getting their monies worth.

    Disney will do nothing to decrease crowds/profits. Disney is not on this earth to make me or you happy. They are here to make a more money every year. Until the profits decline, nothing will change.
    Last edited by tarheelalum; 11-17-2018, 12:58 PM.

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    • #3
      Right .........

      Disney wants bigger crowds !
      Disney does have, upcharge/CA$H GRAB service......... make one feel better.......

      Practice of keeping cash registers unstaffed in food and merch locations,
      running fewer ride vehicles and trams, scheduling fewer custodial.
      "overcrowding" company is making money and saving more money !

      IMO customers, needs start voting with their wallets.......

      Soaring like an EAGLE !

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      • #4
        OP......Disney Parks Admission will go up.......
        You can bet your bottom wallet ,on it !

        But the crowds will still come...............
        Soaring like an EAGLE !

        Comment


        • #5
          I've read (and this could just be opinion) that Disney is content charging fewer people more... because in the end they still get (more) money. But I've also seen decreased staffing and maintanence in an effort to save a few bucks. Throw in upcharges, dining packages, and other perks that were once free, and you've got classic nickel-and-diming... albeit, brilliant nickel and diming.

          Disney knows it has a crowding issue, and not only do they not increase the staffing, but they're charging you more for the pleasant experience you used to have for free. No more simply waiting for a spot for a show... now you're charged (outrageously) for the experience. Now more straws and lids... but drink prices go up.

          Deep down I feel like Disneyland should be a right for everyone to experience... but I know that's neither reality, nor how capitalism works. Fact is, they can and will raise prices until the customer votes with their wallet. I understand many families will be priced out and angry and rightly so, but we have to look at it in perspective. I can't afford a fancy sports car, so while I may be upset, I can't complain. Similarly, there are poor folks who can't afford a cup of coffee who are probably envious that one can travel anywhere.

          My issue with Disney isn't the cost... it's the value. If I'm going to pay higher prices, I want a higher quality experience. I want more staffing, cleanliness, attractions, friendliness... and less crowds. Disneyland is solely hooking me nowadays... for nostalgia. And I'm willing to bet that most people who flock to Disney do so because of the legacy it built in its earlier decades, not what it's done recently.

          In the end, all you can really do is prioritize. I'd love to stay at the DLH each trip, but for the price, it's not worth it. Technically for any stay, no official hotel is worth the price, but once in a while we splurge if we can find a deal.

          So I prioritize. I stay across the street.
          Evaluate your spending. Got a latte habit? Have to have a new phone every year? Need to visit less in order to splurge more later?
          It can be done, for many.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RforFilm View Post
            But heres the thing; you can have a cheap Disneyland or an uncrowded Disneyland, but you can't have both.
            I'd say we have neither right now. It's expensive and crowded. I don't see any evidence that the increase in prices in the last few years has done anything to diminish crowds. Quite the opposite. The more expensive, the more people.

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            • #7
              One poster has already wisely said it and that for some reason people seem to either just ignore or pretend this is a 'problem' but I don't know how many times this can be said. Disney wants it as crowded it as possible. That's just the reality. Everything they have done have found ways to increase crowds, not lessen them. I mean even this past summer they lifted block out dates for the lower passes and added a friend program at a discount just to get attendance up. How is this not registering? No theme park wants LESS people. I don't know why some can't accept this but believe it or not massive crowds is bragging rights, not a 'problem'. Theme parks want to break attendance records and be known as the most attended parks every year.

              But its always the same stuff, raise prices, eliminate payment plans, stop park hopping, put a cap of the number of people who enter, same, same, same! And yet none of that ever happens. Why? Because the Disney company has a very different priority from the Disney consumer. 'We' may want lower crowds, Disney wants the opposite. EVERY park wants the opposite.

              But these 'solutions' have been mentioned every week somewhere for over a decade now. And no offense, but pricing the point to such an extreme level only rich people can visit it is a non-starter IMO. Disney would never raise it that much because another thing I constantly point out it doesn't live in a vacuum. For one thing its in a very competitive theme park market and Disney spends all its time trying to find ways to keep people from going to those other parks, not drive them to it. And the other issue, which again, always seem to be ignored is DCA. Not once was that park uttered at all and why these arguments fail. Unless people are suggesting DCA is also worth paying $500 a day its already a no go. DLR is not just a theme park and a hotel anymore, its a resort, so they have to factor everything in and DCA is a BIG reason why they try to fill these parks as much as possible today.

              In another few years another thread like this will pop up and trust me nothing will still have changed for a reason.
              Last edited by Fctiger; 11-14-2018, 08:48 PM.

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              • #8
                Disney will do nothing to decrease crowds/profits.
                About the Disney Leadership "BONUS" ! ! !...
                Increasing prices and crowd still will come.........and guest still ,paying more for less.......
                "Matter of Worth"..........Nothing will change !
                IMO

                Soaring like an EAGLE !

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hbdad View Post
                  I'd say we have neither right now. It's expensive and crowded. I don't see any evidence that the increase in prices in the last few years has done anything to diminish crowds. Quite the opposite. The more expensive, the more people.
                  Exactly. As long as Disney's brands are popular, Disneyland will become increasingly expensive and increasingly crowded. Management will continue to use every technique of modern demographic-based marketing to pack the parks to the maximum, while continually raising prices on admission, food, merchandise, and services like locker rentals. They will continue to aggressively market ticket media and hype promotional events. They will continue to charge extra for services and events that were previously free. They will continue to carve out desirable experiences that were previously available to all, and sell them only to those who will pay a hefty premium. And their customers will continue to vote YES with their wallets.
                  "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
                  Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
                  imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

                  - Neil Gabler

                  "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
                  until Thor told it to me."
                  -
                  Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony
                  narrated by Chris Hemsworth

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                    Exactly. As long as Disney's brands are popular, Disneyland will become increasingly expensive and increasingly crowded. Management will continue to use every technique of modern demographic-based marketing to pack the parks to the maximum, while continually raising prices on admission, food, merchandise, and services like locker rentals. They will continue to aggressively market ticket media and hype promotional events. They will continue to charge extra for services and events that were previously free. They will continue to carve out desirable experiences that were previously available to all, and sell them only to those who will pay a hefty premium. And their customers will continue to vote YES with their wallets.
                    BINGO...............and yes ,
                    Guest have to Vote with there "WALLET" !
                    It has become ,Matter of Worth..................
                    IMO
                    Soaring like an EAGLE !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Eagleman View Post
                      Disney will do nothing to decrease crowds/profits.
                      About the Disney Leadership "BONUS" ! ! !...
                      Increasing prices and crowd still will come.........and guest still ,paying more for less.......
                      "Matter of Worth"..........Nothing will change !
                      IMO
                      Exactly! Nothing will change. All they want is to find a balance between being able to charge as much as they want but still yield the highest attendance level possible with it and why the AP payment plan is such a benefit for them. No way could they charge $1000 on these passes and expect to have over a million APer. Its been this way for a long time now for a reason

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RforFilm View Post
                        Overcrowding has been a problem at Disneyland for a while.
                        Not really. If it we're TOO crowded, people would stop going. If people stopped going, it would cease to be crowded.

                        They have found a good balance of offering a price that allows for the greatest number of people to enjoy their product, and people are sincerely enjoying it. Doesn't seem to be much of a problem at all.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's been mentioned MANY times that for Disneyland to operate with lower crowds, prices must rise. Unfortunately, logic and reason have no place in this debate.

                          People want low crowds and low prices for themselves, and higher prices for everyone else. Popular solutions are things like, let fewer people in the park, or build more rides, or third gate to spread the crowds. Never mind that it costs money to do these things and Disney has an obligation to shareholders to maximize long term value. Economics don't matter. Still others just won't go to Disneyland anymore because Disney is just a greedy corporation that laughs all the way to the bank as suckers keep soaking up its ever declining product, I mean did they even notice that paint chip on the garbage can? .... if only those poor souls knew better.

                          I'm sure you get my sarcasm.

                          As I have said many times, I believe Disney is damaging its brand with these high crowd levels. Disney should position itself as a premium product that almost guarantees you to have a great time. This means high quality service, good food, low wait times, and high prices. IMO, Disney should position itself as Nordstrom, not Kmart. So in a nutshell, I agree with you, hike prices, but also let's make the product even better.

                          Last edited by BW1; 11-15-2018, 10:19 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Quadrupling the prices would certainly weed out a lot of problems in the park.

                            I'm for it.

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                            • #15
                              When we say Disney wants profits, what that really means is that, like all other publicly traded corporations, Disney answers to a large pool of shareholders and has a legally mandated fiduciary responsibility to maintain and grow the value of Disney stock. In the current business world, that means continuously increasing not only revenue but profit margins, and proving that they will continue to grow those over time. If Disney just decides to stop raising prices, cutting costs and/or finding other new revenue streams, the stock price will drop and the management and board of directors will be held legally responsible and sued for breach of fiduciary responsibility. Unless they 'correct' things, they will be replaced with other people who will. This is the world of toxic capitalism that exists now and there is nothing that Bob Iger, Bob Chapek or anyone else can do about it, unless someone somehow managed to successfully carry out a plan to buy back all outstanding shares and make Disney into a private company, again, or sold Disneyland to a private organization. Only if Disney or Disneyland were a privately owned entity, would the owner(s) be free to do things like focus on the quality and experience in the park over profitability, drop prices, remove additional costs for fringe items and/or intentionally lower the maximum allowed guest count in the parks.
                              Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Whipland View Post
                                Quadrupling the prices would certainly weed out a lot of problems in the park.

                                I'm for it.
                                Your former business partner wanted me to let you know you’ll be getting 3 visitors this Christmas Eve.

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                                • #17
                                  Or or or just limit AP days...highest pass is any day but you have a limit of 14 visits.
                                  Second highest pass is 12 days with black out dates and the last pass is more blackout days and ten visits.


                                  BOOM your good
                                  Happy Halloween!!!

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Whipland View Post
                                    Quadrupling the prices would certainly weed out a lot of problems in the park.
                                    Exactly what problems would it weed out?



                                    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
                                    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
                                    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

                                    - Neil Gabler

                                    "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
                                    until Thor told it to me."
                                    -
                                    Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony
                                    narrated by Chris Hemsworth

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I'm glad that the emphasis on this is for prices to go WAY up. We've seen that incremental increases have had no effect whatsoever on decreasing crowding. The only way for Disney to maintain current revenues with fewer guests, less concessions, and souvenirs is to have admissions costs jump up dramatically. I think this would probably be a 20-30% increase, not just a few dollars per year.

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Whipland View Post
                                        Quadrupling the prices would certainly weed out a lot of problems in the park.

                                        I'm for it.
                                        Quadrupled prices would weed the park right out of business.
                                        BGood! It's not just my motto its my name!

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