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  • #21
    There are a couple things that can be meant by the term outdated, so for the purposes of this post, I will address each of them.

    Outdated = Attraction technology feeling old

    This is a bit of a mixed bag, but on the whole I am going to answer this with a resounding no. Of course I think some of the most advanced audio animatronics ever created being present in Star Wars Land will set a high bar going forward, but I think what is more important is how a rides uses technology. Incredibly, original ideas from 60+ years ago like spinning teacups or a flying pirate ship still feel unique and special. Although the ride itself is bumpy because of its outdated methods, the Matterhorn is able to keep up with improvements to Harold and the lift hill as needed. Space Mountain is just a bunch of projections on a dark roller coaster, but that use of technology is apt for the ride's purpose. Things begin to feel dated when the technology it uses isn't being put to good use. What comes to mind is when Disney somehow neglects to fix ray guns that don't work on Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blasters, or looking at Constance Hatchaway in the attic seconds before seeing the Hatbox ghost. One audio animatronic looks terrible while the very next one you see looks great.

    Outdated = Land atmosphere feeling old

    Some land atmospheres are supposed to be nostalgic or evoke the past, but the way they are maintained means they don't feel like hokey relics. Main Street, NOS, Fantasyland, and Toontown feel timeless. Frontierland and Critter Country don't feel timeless to me, but they still feel accurate and period-specific in a way that feels welcoming. Tomorrowland feels... betrayed by age. Part of it is the blue stucko, part of it is the gold Astro-Orbiter, and a huge part of it is just that Disney lets the land go a long time without major changes to its exterior. The most we've gotten in the last decade is some repainting for Star Tours 2.0 and a reskin of Autopia. The land itself lacks a cohesive direction and is instead some poor mismatch of puzzle pieces across the park's entire 64-year history. This is all to say that once Star Wars Land opens, of course Tomorrowland will feel outdated. It will feel outdated because we know Disney can do better. Many of us have known that for a long time; Star Wars Land is just going to make that disparity worse.

    With that said, I don't think anything will feel more or less outdated because of an integration with an cell phone app based on Disney's track record with these things. If anything the app will be outdated by the time it gets its Star Wars Land update. I sure wish people were on their phones less in the parks, but I see that as a lost cause. Even before people had cell phones they ignored some of Disenyland's best details. I will say, however, it is always fun to play the Disney Parks deck on Heads Up with random strangers in line.

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    • #22
      On one of my last trips, I noticed this jerk who was glued to his smart phone all throughout The Enchanted Tiki Room. I don't think that he ever once looked up at the show. Why did I notice him? The bright light from the #$#@% phone! That bright light ruined the show's ambient lighting and atmosphere. Getting up and finding another seat far away from jerkzilla was not an option since the show was fairly packed, and I didn't feel like risking a confrontation. Anyway, if he was just going to be looking at his phone, why couldn't he have been considerate and just sat somewhere outside where he wouldn't have been a distraction and a nuisance?

      As for the original question, here is something to consider - will GE date well itself? SW may be trendy right now, but will the new iterations prove themselves to be as enduring as the OT? There could be a time in the distant future when GE could be seen as dated while New Orleans Square, Fantasyland, Main Street, and other areas will still feel fresh as always. It wouldn't be the first time that Disney fell into the predicament of finding the hip and trendy suddenly turning into a dated albatross - Captain EO anyone?
      Walt would have loved GE as much as he loved the orange groves.

      Star Wars Galaxy's Edge: Disneyland for iconoclasts

      Calling Star Wars "Disney" is the same as calling American Flyer "Lionel"

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Zorro View Post
        ...here is something to consider - will GE date well itself? SW may be trendy right now, but will the new iterations prove themselves to be as enduring as the OT? There could be a time in the distant future when GE could be seen as dated while New Orleans Square, Fantasyland, Main Street, and other areas will still feel fresh as always. It wouldn't be the first time that Disney fell into the predicament of finding the hip and trendy suddenly turning into a dated albatross - Captain EO anyone?
        Exactly. Which is why Walt built Frontierland, not Davy Crockett Land. Fantasyland, not Cinderella Land. Main Street U.S.A., not Fulton Corners, Indiana (the 1903 small town in So Dear To My Heart). A planned offshoot of Main Street was to be called Liberty Square, not Johnny Tremain Square.

        But then, Walt was in it for the long term, not to milk the maximum short-term profits by turning all of Disneyland into a marketing platform for brands, brands, and more brands. Synergy with his popular animated films, certainly -- but secondary to positioning Disneyland itself as the brand. To that end, the number of branded rides was in the minority, and originals in the majority... until the advent of Eisner.
        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
        designed to appeal to everyone."

        - Walt Disney

        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
        - Michael Eisner

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

          Exactly. Which is why Walt built Frontierland, not Davy Crockett Land. Fantasyland, not Cinderella Land. Main Street U.S.A., not Fulton Corners, Indiana (the 1903 small town in So Dear To My Heart). A planned offshoot of Main Street was to be called Liberty Square, not Johnny Tremain Square.

          But then, Walt was in it for the long term, not to milk the maximum short-term profits by turning all of Disneyland into a marketing platform for brands, brands, and more brands. Synergy with his popular animated films, certainly -- but secondary to positioning Disneyland itself as the brand. To that end, the number of branded rides was in the minority, and originals in the majority... until the advent of Eisner.
          Someone should tell Iger that the only reason previous familiarity with a story and show franchise is important in films and other media is because the meaning of the "Disney" trademark lacks power and consistency in many of these other arenas. People have been burned too many times by horrendously-bad movies and similar things that have carried the "Disney" name, so rebuilding goodwill associated with the trademark is the key to not having to rely on sequels, remakes, reboots, etc.

          Someone should also tell Iger that this familiarity is unnecessary with Disneyland and Disney+ because people are buying a package of attractions in the former case and a package of content in the latter. So, Disneyland should be driving the creation of new franchises, such as "Pirates of the Caribbean," and so should Disney+.

          The only reason Disney+ should ever create exclusive and original content that is derivative of other works is if the source material is actually compelling enough to drive new subscriptions and renewals. The "Star Wars" and Marvel series qualify, but no one cares about a remake of "Three Men and a Baby," which is perfectly fine in its original form, or about a series based on "The Mighty Ducks," which has been milked to death already and which was never terribly interesting to begin with. These things smack of laziness and of an utter lack of ideas and creativity from what was once the most imaginative organization on Earth.
          Last edited by PragmaticIdealist; 03-17-2019, 03:10 PM.

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          • #25
            No. Disneyland won't become outdated...
            I am old. But still love Disneyland.

            Comment


            • #26
              The only area that feels outdated is TL. The rest of DL "lands" pull off their appropriate time periods. The tech to me means nothing it's all about delivery. Any attraction that survives today which was in the park on July 17th 1955 pretty much proves this theory as they are delivering as much joy as they did back then. SWGE is going to deliver on what Walt started so long ago. It will be totally immersive and deliver unforgettable attractions and experiences. This is why it will fit nicely into DL proper. I really believe that this area is a bigger brother to what NOS brought to DL. It will be considered as legendary as time passes.
              These are some of my favorite TRs I have posted

              DL 55th BDAY trip report
              My company had a special night at the park
              WdW trip report with WWoHP
              NYE 2011 trip report
              Mice Chat 7th anniversary
              Leap year 24 hour report
              New DCA trip report
              NYE 2012
              HKDL trip report

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                Exactly. Which is why Walt built Frontierland, not Davy Crockett Land. Fantasyland, not Cinderella Land. Main Street U.S.A., not Fulton Corners, Indiana (the 1903 small town in So Dear To My Heart). A planned offshoot of Main Street was to be called Liberty Square, not Johnny Tremain Square.

                But then, Walt was in it for the long term, not to milk the maximum short-term profits by turning all of Disneyland into a marketing platform for brands, brands, and more brands. Synergy with his popular animated films, certainly -- but secondary to positioning Disneyland itself as the brand. To that end, the number of branded rides was in the minority, and originals in the majority... until the advent of Eisner.
                Absolutely correct, while they contained various IP, they in of themselves weren't IP tied or had a somewhat timeless quality about the. The other successful rides that are at or nearing 50 year anniversaries are Pirates and Haunted Mansion. They took an idea and built a unique and engaging experience around them. This also added to the timeless of it. Most of the tech interaction today is kitschy and ages VERY rapidly. Tech interactivity should be minimal and requires a SUSTAINED commitment to keep it fresh over time. In the past the refresh cycles Disney puts in with tech tend to be a bit slow for tech heavy experiences so will be interesting to see.

                The newest phones are staring to come equipped with 3D and IR cameras for apps built to support augmented reality (AR). In a few years when AR type experiences become the norm, look to see Disney switch to AR type interactivity which will migrate to VR type activity which will eventually all get to the Disneyland in our heads

                I agree though, Disneyland itself should be the brand and everything else exists inside the universe it represents in some way.

                Comment


                • #28
                  I will Experience ,Disneyland for it self.....
                  It is not a
                  contest in my mind ,between that or being able to take out my phone .


                  I rather just turn my phone off and enjoy the park.......the best, I can!
                  The decisons is my ........
                  Last edited by Eagleman; 03-17-2019, 03:07 PM.
                  Soaring like an EAGLE !

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post

                    Absolutely correct, while they contained various IP, they in of themselves weren't IP tied or had a somewhat timeless quality about the. The other successful rides that are at or nearing 50 year anniversaries are Pirates and Haunted Mansion. They took an idea and built a unique and engaging experience around them. This also added to the timeless of it. Most of the tech interaction today is kitschy and ages VERY rapidly. Tech interactivity should be minimal and requires a SUSTAINED commitment to keep it fresh over time. In the past the refresh cycles Disney puts in with tech tend to be a bit slow for tech heavy experiences so will be interesting to see.

                    The newest phones are staring to come equipped with 3D and IR cameras for apps built to support augmented reality (AR). In a few years when AR type experiences become the norm, look to see Disney switch to AR type interactivity which will migrate to VR type activity which will eventually all get to the Disneyland in our heads

                    I agree though, Disneyland itself should be the brand and everything else exists inside the universe it represents in some way.
                    I really don't want to play a Disney/Star Wars themed video game on my smart phone while wandering around in Disneyland/Starwars land.
                    Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Eagleman View Post
                      I will Experience ,Disneyland for it self.....
                      It is not a
                      contest in my mind ,between that or being able to take out my phone .


                      I rather just turn my phone off and enjoy the park.......the best, I can!
                      The decisons is my ........
                      Right! My job and business both require me to be reachable and online nearly 24/7. It's bad enough that I might have to deal with MaxPass on my cellphone...man, I just wish I could turn the darn thing off for a few hours and get away from everything!
                      Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by whiteness View Post

                        Right! My job and business both require me to be reachable and online nearly 24/7. It's bad enough that I might have to deal with MaxPass on my cellphone...man, I just wish I could turn the darn thing off for a few hours and get away from everything!
                        Hey...understand ,for work reason become a leash.......(being on call)
                        You understand my Point .

                        I do not go the parks ...to play with my phone
                        yes ,that my way get away for few hour's and Enjoy life ,
                        the Best, I can !
                        Soaring like an EAGLE !

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by whiteness View Post

                          I really don't want to play a Disney/Star Wars themed video game on my smart phone while wandering around in Disneyland/Starwars land.
                          BINGO.....again that not why I go to park for......if I play games......it something , I can do at home.
                          Soaring like an EAGLE !

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post
                            There are a couple things that can be meant by the term outdated, so for the purposes of this post, I will address each of them.
                            I realize I didn't specify what I meant by outdated. (My bad!)

                            In the podcast they speak about how guests will interact with the physical land at GE. Instead of a wand a la Harry Potter at Universal, the Disney Play app will be the way for guests to interact with the new land.

                            I am curious if folks think this new interactive play will expand to other areas of the park. (Would it work?)

                            GE is a specific story in a specific time and place in the SWU. Would applying that specificity to other areas of the park help with the overall theme? Or is it better to leave the theme vague? Why?

                            Would you (plural you) enjoy being able to explore NOS or Adventureland via the app if it built upon the architecture and attractions that exist?

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Armstrong View Post

                              I am curious if folks think this new interactive play will expand to other areas of the park. (Would it work?)
                              If it is successful, they would almost have to. And I could definitely see it being successful.

                              If the question is meant to be a more general "do they have to update attractions and areas to meet expectations for newer generations." Then the answer is absolutely yes. In fact they already touted several changes and additions to both the Haunted Mansion and Pirates back in 2005/2006. And I seem to recall them specifically referencing the "Harry Potter Generation" as the catalyst for those changes.

                              GE is a specific story in a specific time and place in the SWU. Would applying that specificity to other areas of the park help with the overall theme? Or is it better to leave the theme vague? Why?
                              Seems WDI has gone back and forth on this a few times. Specifically for NOS, I seem to remember there was some effort by Eddie Sotto to tie the whole land together with a backstory. And of course there is additional fan created fiction that ties the area together as well, indicating a storytelling void that people are trying to fill. But that could just be the natural progression of an attraction. As it ages and people get tired and bored with what's there, they inevitably try to create new life and backstories on top of what has already been presented.

                              That newer generations are craving more characters, more details, and more backstory, are all generally, positives in the world of themed design. The Play Disney Parks app just facilitates an additionally delivery method for such, in a way that isn't too destructive or costly to implement.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by MrLiver View Post
                                If it is successful, they would almost have to. And I could definitely see it being successful.
                                Probably, but that's not necessarily a good thing. Not for Disney or my Family.

                                The more the guest's experience depends on software running on their devices, the less justification people will have to physically visit Disneyland (and pay those entry fees, travel, brave the crowds, etc.), and the less Disney's massive investment in the physical park will differentiate it from it's competitors (who can also write Smartphone Apps.)

                                And it's not like my daughter needs yet another excuse to spend her time staring at a screen, rather than interacting with her family or the rest of the "real world." So, we take her to Disneyland for a "family outing", and she's going to spend her time wandering around staring at her smartphone screen, like she does 99% of the time anyway? But now I have to pay Disney nearly $200 for this? Hmmm....

                                I know this seems like a really "good idea", and maybe Disney feels they don't have any choice but to start offering stuff like this...but I think they should be very careful, because they risk damaging and diminishing what makes Disneyland unique and worth the high premium charged over it's competitors.
                                Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by whiteness View Post
                                  Probably, but that's not necessarily a good thing. Not for Disney or my Family.

                                  The more the guest's experience depends on software running on their devices, the less justification people will have to physically visit Disneyland (and pay those entry fees, travel, brave the crowds, etc.), and the less Disney's massive investment in the physical park will differentiate it from it's competitors (who can also write Smartphone Apps.)

                                  And it's not like my daughter needs yet another excuse to spend her time staring at a screen, rather than interacting with her family or the rest of the "real world." So, we take her to Disneyland for a "family outing", and she's going to spend her time wandering around staring at her smartphone screen, like she does 99% of the time anyway? But now I have to pay Disney nearly $200 for this? Hmmm....

                                  I know this seems like a really "good idea", and maybe Disney feels they don't have any choice but to start offering stuff like this...but I think they should be very careful, because they risk damaging and diminishing what makes Disneyland unique and worth the high premium charged over it's competitors.
                                  Exactly. Unfortunately for the uniqueness of Disneyland, the fastest way up the management ladder at Disney Parks is to successfully pitch high-ROI ideas that milk more money from the customers. Generic "experiences" like apps fill the prescription perfectly. "Keeping Disneyland unique" isn't even on the radar, and hasn't been since Eisner's day.

                                  "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                  it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                  together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                  designed to appeal to everyone."

                                  - Walt Disney

                                  "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                  - Michael Eisner

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I don't think it will make other lands feel outdated. Disneyland has always been a nice mix of old and new. They seem to do a good job of keeping classics that are still loved, and replacing attractions that people stop going to. They do have their mistakes here and there, but I think their overall track record is pretty good at keeping the park not feel like a museum.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by whiteness View Post

                                      Probably, but that's not necessarily a good thing. Not for Disney or my Family.

                                      The more the guest's experience depends on software running on their devices, the less justification people will have to physically visit Disneyland (and pay those entry fees, travel, brave the crowds, etc.), and the less Disney's massive investment in the physical park will differentiate it from it's competitors (who can also write Smartphone Apps.)

                                      And it's not like my daughter needs yet another excuse to spend her time staring at a screen, rather than interacting with her family or the rest of the "real world." So, we take her to Disneyland for a "family outing", and she's going to spend her time wandering around staring at her smartphone screen, like she does 99% of the time anyway? But now I have to pay Disney nearly $200 for this? Hmmm....

                                      I know this seems like a really "good idea", and maybe Disney feels they don't have any choice but to start offering stuff like this...but I think they should be very careful, because they risk damaging and diminishing what makes Disneyland unique and worth the high premium charged over it's competitors.
                                      Any new features like this should be strictly optional. If one wants to experience Disneyland in the classic way, with smartphone firmly tucked away in a pocket or bag, the experience should remain generally the same as it was prior to the advent of the smart phone. As for keeping a kid off of their phone, it's an uphill battle in any environment, but one would hope that it's not so much at Disneyland. Perhaps propose the idea of playing a game the family can share while waiting in lines. Something like a Disney trivia game would be excellent in that regard.
                                      Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        I think the wrong question is being asked, here, over all. The existing lands feel how they do based on their individual natures. Those lands representing times past or stories of fantasy and magic feel 'outdated' compared to the real world, and that is actually part of their magic. The exception to this is Tomorrow Land, which IS supposed to represent the future and fantastic advances in technology and science. With the presence of another land, grandiose in scale and full of futuristic technology and science fiction themes, Tomorrow Land is in danger of feeling like a has-been of a land, even more so than it does now. We can just hope that Disney management decides that the same kind of love that went into building SWGE is what Tomorrow Land needs and it received a large scale transformation with plenty of Imagineering magic.

                                        I think the more pertinent question to ask is if SWGE is going to make existing attractions feel dated. The answer to that is yes, but only in the same way that other new attractions have. The Rise of the Resistance and Millennium Falcon attractions are going to seriously raise the stakes on ride experiences, just like Indy, Splash Mountain and Midway Mania did in their time, and Disney will need to keep updating Disneyland's existing attractions to prevent them from feeling too out of date. Some attractions are classics and are still great as they are, but Disney has seen that even classic attractions need to be updated, ala Peter Pan and Snow White, to keep them from getting too stale. The trick is in doing it well and doing it tastefully. Again, Tomorrow Land is suffering from a need to update and/or replace its attractions, much more so than other lands do.
                                        Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by whiteness View Post

                                          Probably, but that's not necessarily a good thing. Not for Disney or my Family.
                                          How is success a bad thing? I understand that on a personal level, it might not be something you're into, but if the audience at large is buying into this new technology, why wouldn't Disney then cater to the majority?

                                          The more the guest's experience depends on software running on their devices, the less justification people will have to physically visit Disneyland (and pay those entry fees, travel, brave the crowds, etc.), and the less Disney's massive investment in the physical park will differentiate it from it's competitors (who can also write Smartphone Apps.)
                                          There is certainly no evidence that they are going to reduce investment in their physical properties, and Stay Wars seems to prove the opposite. Adding augmentation to the land is just adding an additional layer that a guest can choose to enjoy or ignore as they wish. Think of it as having a black and white TV... You can still enjoy the program as you always have, you just miss out on the extra details.

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