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  • Star Tours vs Millenium Falcon

    So do these two attractions compete with each other or are they sufficiently differentiated to happily coexist for a while? I'd always assumed that MF would render ST redundant, but after what I've read about ST being more thrilling and visually more impressive I'm not sure. I haven't ridden MF myself, but would like to hear from the few who have.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Disney_Dad View Post
    So do these two attractions compete with each other or are they sufficiently differentiated to happily coexist for a while? I'd always assumed that MF would render ST redundant, but after what I've read about ST being more thrilling and visually more impressive I'm not sure. I haven't ridden MF myself, but would like to hear from the few who have.
    I think the 32-year-old Star Tours will be the standard of innovation and creativity against which the new attraction is compared.

    The risk is all on MF's side. If after three decades, Disney can't create a Star Wars Land attraction that is so innovative that it unambiguously and overwhelmingly leaves Star Tours totally in the dust, then they're leaving themselves open to accusations of cheaping out.

    And it might be leaning in that direction. Plenty of fans are posting rave reviews, but a significant number of the reactions are lukewarm or disappointed. Not that MF sucks, but that a third of a century after Star Tours, and with Disney's mega-deep pockets, you'd think that MF would have been more than yet another glitzed-up simulator ride.

    And even more telling, a number of Disney defenders are posting justifications for MF not being more than it is ("give it a chance," "wait until it's fine-tuned," "don't judge it until you've ridden it," "everybody else loves it," "you had your expectations set too high," "nobody expects every Disney ride to be an E-Ticket," "wait until the other ride is opened," and so on).
    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
    designed to appeal to everyone."

    - Walt Disney

    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
    - Michael Eisner

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Disney_Dad View Post
      So do these two attractions compete with each other or are they sufficiently differentiated to happily coexist for a while? I'd always assumed that MF would render ST redundant, but after what I've read about ST being more thrilling and visually more impressive I'm not sure. I haven't ridden MF myself, but would like to hear from the few who have.
      My Theory is this opens the path for getting rid of Star Tours eventually. The fact of it is it is a better version of Star Tours.
      These are some of my favorite TRs I have posted

      DL 55th BDAY trip report
      My company had a special night at the park
      WdW trip report with WWoHP
      NYE 2011 trip report
      Mice Chat 7th anniversary
      Leap year 24 hour report
      New DCA trip report
      NYE 2012
      HKDL trip report

      Comment


      • #4
        I may need more time to compare, but they really are similar. Outright: I would say that MF’s interactivity has the edge if you are a pilot (particular the right pilot). This is the first time I really enjoyed interactivity at the Park (there is something delightful about being the one to trigger the ship to lightspeed). However, Star Tours is better if you would like to just ride a ride . I have not been an engineer. However, being a gunner felt a bit pointless and was somewhat distracting to the overall experience. Without the edge of being a Pilot, it’s too similar to Star Tours, but doesn’t have the same charm.

        ETA: Theming wise, MF’s ship’s interior feels much more like a spaceship and is more intimate. I don’t miss feeling like part of the herd on the bus that Star Tours.

        Comment


        • #5
          Disneyland 1955: Peter Pan, Snow White, Mr. Toad. 12 years later: Pirates of the Caribbean.

          Disneyland 1987: Star Tours. 32 years later: Millennium Falcon.

          Am I the only one who sees a major flattening of the innovation/creativity curve here?
          "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
          it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
          together with every variety of recreation and fun,
          designed to appeal to everyone."

          - Walt Disney

          "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
          - Michael Eisner

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
            Disneyland 1955: Peter Pan, Snow White, Mr. Toad. 12 years later: Pirates of the Caribbean.

            Disneyland 1987: Star Tours. 32 years later: Millennium Falcon.

            Am I the only one who sees a major flattening of the innovation/creativity curve here?
            Building attractions in California especially is more complicated (regulations and liability) and much more expensive than it was 30 years ago. It wouldn't be fair to leave that out of the discussion.

            I think one also has to fairly point out that RotR is supposed to be the next-gen innovator. MF was always planned as a secondary ride, so it's more reasonable to see it as an enhancement of an existing concept, rather than a total breakthrough of something new.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
              Disneyland 1955: Peter Pan, Snow White, Mr. Toad. 12 years later: Pirates of the Caribbean.

              Disneyland 1987: Star Tours. 32 years later: Millennium Falcon.

              Am I the only one who sees a major flattening of the innovation/creativity curve here?
              At first I actually agreed with you, but then I realized that your comparison is off here, or perhaps I'm misunderstanding it.

              If I'm understanding this right, your 1955 to 1967 argument is to showcase the great growth in attraction innovation in such a "short time," while not acknowledging that POTC and the other attractions you listed have no commonalities except that they're all Disney attractions.

              But your 1987 to 2019 comparison seems to purposely pit two motion simulators against each other to try to prove a point - however, the basis for comparison is flawed. Now, if we kept the basis for comparison the same, and by that I mean pitting two attractions against each other with no commonalities besides both being Disney attractions, and put 1987: Star Wars against, say 2013: Mystic Manor, 2016: Shanghai Pirates, 2017: Flight of Passage, then I'd actually disagree with you in that there is not a "major flattening of the innovation/creativity curve" here. In those 32 years, we've seen massive strides in scope, technology, and methods of storytelling. If we wanted to make a platform-specific comparison, I think 1987: Star Tours to 1995: Indiana Jones would be the best comparison. Then, between 1995 to 2019 (24 years) we've seen motion simulators become more highly interactive, technological, and scaled accordingly. I'm not saying MF is flawless, I just think we should be fair here.

              Yes, we've also seen Pixar Piers and Toy Story Lands, but the point is made.
              Last edited by denyuntilcaught; 06-12-2019, 04:56 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                I also need more time to compare
                But
                I go for the RIDE.....not to push buttons...at this point....
                I enjoy Star Tours......But like the old version better....
                IMO
                Last edited by Eagleman; 06-12-2019, 07:43 PM.
                Soaring like an EAGLE !

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                  Disneyland 1955: Peter Pan, Snow White, Mr. Toad. 12 years later: Pirates of the Caribbean.

                  Disneyland 1987: Star Tours. 32 years later: Millennium Falcon.

                  Am I the only one who sees a major flattening of the innovation/creativity curve here?
                  Ding ding ding ding ding !

                  Exactly!!!

                  In fact some have said “is that all” regarding MF... imagine waiting two hours to ride this..

                  Like I said in another post - Star Tours isn’t exactly a Space Mountain... what makes MF so much better? Small narrow “cabins” ? Small narrow and totally disorganized queue? A new character who briefs the crowd puzzled by who he is and what does have to do with the entire SW legacy???


                  help me here to understand

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Long time lurker but I just had to chime in. Oh man. You guys really don’t understand how revolutionary this attraction is compared to Star Tours. Coming from a software engineer. Having a projection that can real time render depending on inputs from 6 different stations of guests is absolutely insane. I can tell you there is not a more complicated attraction in the world. Not just at Disney. The computing power and programming that is done for this is nothing short of stunning. You also forget that the whole time you’re riding that attraction you’re actually spinning in a circle and stopping multiple times...yet nobody notices at all. It’s crazy. Maybe it’s not your favorite attraction but it’s not out of a lack of innovation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Flyboy1515 View Post
                      Long time lurker but I just had to chime in. Oh man. You guys really don’t understand how revolutionary this attraction is compared to Star Tours. Coming from a software engineer. Having a projection that can real time render depending on inputs from 6 different stations of guests is absolutely insane. I can tell you there is not a more complicated attraction in the world. Not just at Disney. The computing power and programming that is done for this is nothing short of stunning. You also forget that the whole time you’re riding that attraction you’re actually spinning in a circle and stopping multiple times...yet nobody notices at all. It’s crazy. Maybe it’s not your favorite attraction but it’s not out of a lack of innovation.
                      That post is a perfect illustration of one of the problems with George's later films, and many of today's FX-heavy films: the mindset that more realistic FX = higher quality storytelling.

                      Theme park innovation and creativity is not a matter of buying better video cards and throwing more pixels on a screen at a higher refresh rate. Tech is necessary to tell story. But tech isn't story.

                      Repeat: Tech. Is not. Story.
                      "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                      it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                      together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                      designed to appeal to everyone."

                      - Walt Disney

                      "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                      - Michael Eisner

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Flyboy1515 View Post
                        Long time lurker but I just had to chime in. Oh man. You guys really don’t understand how revolutionary this attraction is compared to Star Tours. Coming from a software engineer. Having a projection that can real time render depending on inputs from 6 different stations of guests is absolutely insane. I can tell you there is not a more complicated attraction in the world. Not just at Disney. The computing power and programming that is done for this is nothing short of stunning. You also forget that the whole time you’re riding that attraction you’re actually spinning in a circle and stopping multiple times...yet nobody notices at all. It’s crazy. Maybe it’s not your favorite attraction but it’s not out of a lack of innovation.
                        Wow...I was actually going to jump in and post something similar, but you summed it up pretty well. There is no other attraction at a Disney park, if not the entire world more technologically innovative than the Millennium Falcon. It's not just impressive that they pulled off this technological marvel, but that they were able to do it in a way that has a rather high degree of reliability.

                        But aside from the tech really standing out, the Millennium Falcon is also in an entirely different class of theme park attraction than Star Tours. Where Star Tours entirely relied on a ride film to tell it's story and create drama, the Falcon experience is really dependent on the crew. You can have a good crew, and have a really good ride, or a bad crew and have a GREAT ride. This is the first real social attraction, where the audience not only have interactive elements to engage them, but they are actively encouraged to engage with their fellow audience members. It gives the storytelling a whole new dimension beyond just watching a movie in a motion simulator.

                        ​​​​​​It's a risky gamble for Disney to drop so much R&D and technology on a really cutting edge attraction concept, but so far for me it seems as though it pays off.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Been on both. They are incredibly different but can 100% coexist! one is a visually exciting thrilling escape while the other is an interactive mission where the excitement comes from your participation and less so from the simulation itself.

                          As far as the Tech goes... MF is an incredible innovation and something I never even thought of while I was riding it was the fact that the screens are SO well done that in hindsight I didn't realize i wasn't wearing 3d glasses! For an interactive ride simulation to NOT require 3d glasses and yet it never felt like it wasn't in 3d is incredible.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Been on both multiple time and I can say the two rides are different. Yes both are simulators that use Star Wars themes. However they feel completely different. Yes Star tours is more thrilling and does have more movements; however MF is all about you and how you can control the ride; don’t go on it expecting big drops or sudden turns because that is not what the ride is about. Both are great and both can be in the same park.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If the price to pay for bringing Smuggler's Run into the park is that we lose Star Tours eventually because Imagineers foresaw it as a sort of "spiritual successor", I am totally on board with that. I've had a vendetta against the current iteration of Star Tours since it re-launched. I would also really, really, really love to see all Star Wars presence vanish from Tomorrowland now that Disneyland has Galaxy's Edge.
                              First of all, the name's not "Zippy"! As a matter of fact, I don't believe I've ever met another bot named Zippy, so one can only assume that you came up with "Zippy" in reference to my speed, which may be technically accurate, but lacks a certain creativity!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Sorry for the dumb question. Why didn't they move Star Tours over to the Star Wars land?

                                And why didn't they move Autopia to Carsland, for that matter?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
                                  Sorry for the dumb question. Why didn't they move Star Tours over to the Star Wars land?

                                  And why didn't they move Autopia to Carsland, for that matter?
                                  Click image for larger version  Name:	money.png Views:	1 Size:	83.7 KB ID:	8590481

                                  I would argue that a travel company like Star Tours would have no business sending tourists to take in the sights of what is effectively an off-the-grid corner of the galaxy for smugglers and the like but while riding Smuggler's Run you actually do see a Starspeeder 1000 taking off from/arriving at Batuu. Which means someone is traveling to/departing from Batuu using the service.
                                  First of all, the name's not "Zippy"! As a matter of fact, I don't believe I've ever met another bot named Zippy, so one can only assume that you came up with "Zippy" in reference to my speed, which may be technically accurate, but lacks a certain creativity!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
                                    Sorry for the dumb question. Why didn't they move Star Tours over to the Star Wars land?

                                    And why didn't they move Autopia to Carsland, for that matter?
                                    Not really a dumb question. I've heard different things from different groups so you can pick which one makes the most sense to you:

                                    From an operational perspective: the downtime required to close the ride and move it would have generated guests complaints, reduced capacity and not really resulted in any "new" experience to justify it. In the interim it would have just left an empty building where Star Tours used to be.

                                    From a WDI perspective: the current prequel version of Star Tours doesn't have a place in the sequel trilogy mythology that Galaxy's Edge takes place in. Galaxy's Edge is firmly confined to the end of the Star Wars timeline, and Star Tours (which doesn't seem confined to any timeline) would be too disorienting and jarring a transition.

                                    Right now it seems they want to keep the two timelines as physically separate as possible. Darth Vader can meet people in Tomorrowland, but in Galaxy's Edge Darth Vader has been dead for decades and Kylo reigns supreme.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by MrLiver View Post
                                      ..From a WDI perspective: the current prequel version of Star Tours doesn't have a place in the sequel trilogy mythology that Galaxy's Edge takes place in. Galaxy's Edge is firmly confined to the end of the Star Wars timeline, and Star Tours (which doesn't seem confined to any timeline) would be too disorienting and jarring a transition.

                                      Right now it seems they want to keep the two timelines as physically separate as possible. Darth Vader can meet people in Tomorrowland, but in Galaxy's Edge Darth Vader has been dead for decades and Kylo reigns supreme.
                                      This too! Worth noting though there is/was an ending to Star Tours where you did arrive on Batuu, though this could have been at any point in time. -and that there is a Starspeeder 1000 visible at the end of Smuggler's Run, meaning Star Tours must exist in some capacity/as a company in the sequel era timeline. The issue there is that Star Tours doesn't seem to concern itself with canonical accuracy (despite Disney press releases stating the attraction was designed to take place between Episodes 3 and 4) which is the main thing that really bothers me about the attraction. How can we arrive at the battle of Hoth then make the jump to Lightspeed and suddenly be at the battle of Naboo under Separatist attack when all their units were shut down at the end of Episode 3? Or jump to the construction of the first Death Star?

                                      Perhaps it has something to do with a device attached to the back of the Starspeeder 1000 which reads "Flux Capacitor" in Aurebesh. I haven't seen it for myself but I am told it exists. Even this wouldn't fully explain things away since the concept of "time travel" was introduced to Star Wars canon in the final season of Star Wars Rebels and functions much differently/seems to have more rules than in other media franchises. More importantly, what time travel they did show us actually makes sense and doesn't upset the timeline by dirtying it up with alternate universes, etc, etc. Star Tours doesn't do this as well, unfortunately.

                                      EDIT: Removed the bit about Jakku, which is actually only possible on Star Tours during the first half of the attraction, meaning the Hoth/Jakku combination is not possible.
                                      Last edited by Blurr; 06-13-2019, 08:14 AM.
                                      First of all, the name's not "Zippy"! As a matter of fact, I don't believe I've ever met another bot named Zippy, so one can only assume that you came up with "Zippy" in reference to my speed, which may be technically accurate, but lacks a certain creativity!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Blurr View Post
                                        This too! Worth noting though there is/was an ending to Star Tours where you did arrive on Batuu, though this could have been at any point in time. -and that there is a Starspeeder 1000 visible at the end of Smuggler's Run, meaning Star Tours must exist in some capacity/as a company in the sequel era timeline.
                                        Maybe not as a company? Trying to keep the timeline intact, we know that eventually Star Tours upgraded the (now current) Starspeeder 1000 to the Star Speeder 3000 (Star Tours 1.0). I have absolutely no clue how much time has passed in the Star Wars universe between Episode 3 and Episode 8, but presumably Star Tours could have sold off an older model at a junk sale and some smuggler picked one up and now routinely uses it to pick up assignment work from Ohnaka Transport Solutions. Maybe that's how Rex ended up there?

                                        ​​​​​​
                                        More importantly, what time travel they did show us actually makes sense and doesn't upset the timeline by dirtying it up with alternate universes, etc, etc. Star Tours doesn't do this as well, unfortunately.
                                        Oh it's still a mess though. It was an obvious design decision to leverage the ability to run multiple videos and show multiple destinations, and to try to include as many familiar places as possible. I think the intent of the story, as it was communicated when it premiered was that, while you are visiting Hoth, and there is a battle occuring, it's not actually the battle of Hoth you are witnessing. It's not the same pod race Anakin participated in. It's not the same trade federation embargo.

                                        And this KINDA worked... all the way until they started adding the actual actors from the sequel movies.

                                        I love Star Tours, but I can see why the design group for Galaxy's Edge wouldn't want to try to fix that.

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