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Massive mistake not focusing their new Star Wars Land on the Original Trilogy?

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  • Originally posted by JLee1226 View Post

    It's more a me thing where I can't conceptualize what the ride experience would actually be, that would make sense in the context of Batuu. When I read your description, it sounds more akin to a Fantasyland dark ride where we'd pass by different vignettes. I don't think that kind of ride fits in an immersive environment unless the story of the ride somehow explicitly relays that we are watching 'holo recreations' or are having 'Force visions' through to the past.

    I might be totally off base from what your idea is though!

    Seems reasonable that the galaxy probably has a general awareness of the galactic civil war, but in TFA Rey and Finn are both somewhat incredulous that Luke was real.
    That does however mean the stories have been told over and over again. I agree with you that a fantasyland style retelling dark ride would not be the best and honestly not sure what I would have it be, it was just my thought on how the original characters could be honored without completely retheming Galaxy's edge completely as others have suggested.
    BGood! It's not just my motto its my name!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JLee1226 View Post

      But what's the thematic justification for this experience being on Batuu? Do you want the land to be an immersive experience? It's fine if "no" is your answer but I just wish folks would be more upfront about it. I'm not sure how an in-universe history of the Jedi would play out as an experience on Batuu. But maybe I just lack the imagination to see your vision for it....

      One idea I had was to create something over in the east end of Batuu. It could be 'ancient Jedi temple ruins,' or simply a place strong with Force energy. You could do a mini Jedi show in the vein of the Dr. Strange experience or move the tomorrow land Jedi training show here. Another thing that might have potential for an experience could be something where guests get to interact with Force ghosts. In this way you could involve Mark Hamill, though it would probably be a screen based attraction.

      It also looks like Disney has started selling a toy version of Luke's star compass. This was a macguffin from the Jedi Fallen Order video game that shows up as a physical prop in Luke's hut on Ach-To in TLJ. The idea in the game being Luke was trying to find artifacts linked to Palpatine. Since Rise of Skywalker contrived a connection between Luke and Lando for a similar purpose, it would fit thematically if older Billy Dee Williams shows up in animatronic or video form. You could create a Smuggler's Run mission or a dark ride based on finding a similar artifact (or attempting to find the Sith wayfinder).

      ​​​​​Or perhaps Batuu has a kyber crystal cave, where you could build a dark ride with the Force ghosts of Luke and Yoda (Leia auido clip maybe?) guiding Rey (and us) to a new crystal for the Skywalker lightsaber (or maybe the yellow one). Either of these ideas slot in perfectly to the timeline.
      Funny, I had a similar idea just a couple posts above yours, but a Jedi Temple where Rey goes on a journey. Could be a dark ride, an experience, a show, or all of the above. The timeline is intact yet all characters are in the land.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by mickdaddy View Post

        That does however mean the stories have been told over and over again. I agree with you that a fantasyland style retelling dark ride would not be the best and honestly not sure what I would have it be, it was just my thought on how the original characters could be honored without completely retheming Galaxy's edge completely as others have suggested.
        Ok, I just thought of something. Well, it would be a little bit of a deep cut for the general Star Wars fan and maaaybe a little weird, but what if they made a Guardians of the Galaxy style omni coaster that was based on the Rebels episode "A World Between Worlds?" For those who haven't seen the episode (spoiler), it takes place in a black void with portals to different times. The conceit of the episode is that Ezra saves Ahsoka from Vader through time travel (clip below), while being chased by the Emperor. The portal was a part of the Lothal Jedi temple, so there's a canonical explanation! But we could flash to different points, and in an in-universe sense, it would be "real."

        Restore Walt's Disneyland: bring back the Aluminum Hall of Fame!

        Comment


        • The real answer here is that Disney's view on Star Wars is (or was) that it's just copy-and-paste elements that it can keep using to make money for forever. In other words: the fans don't care about the characters or the story, they just want to see lightsabers, so you can make any number of generic assembly line movies or tv shows featuring lightsabers (as you own the lightsaber copyright) and the hoi polloi will keep handing over money. Galaxy's Edge, in its more-or-less "here is a lot of generic unspecific Star Wars stuff" theme, is in keeping with this premise.

          The key thing to understand is that this premise is what justified the purchase of SW and the building of the land in the first place. If Disney is wrong and this is not the case, and actually people mostly only care about Original Trilogy characters and mostly just want to see Han and Luke and Vader and not Joe New Good Guy and Darth Another Bad Guy, then building an entire land based on nostalgia for just those three movies from forty years ago doesn't make sense in the first place (I'm in this camp personally!). You want to look towards the future, not the past.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BasilOregano View Post
            The real answer here is that Disney's view on Star Wars is (or was) that it's just copy-and-paste elements that it can keep using to make money for forever. In other words: the fans don't care about the characters or the story, they just want to see lightsabers, so you can make any number of generic assembly line movies or tv shows featuring lightsabers (as you own the lightsaber copyright) and the hoi polloi will keep handing over money. Galaxy's Edge, in its more-or-less "here is a lot of generic unspecific Star Wars stuff" theme, is in keeping with this premise.
            I think this is somewhat true, but I wouldn't frame it as a negative. A lot of what differentiates Star Wars from some other sci-fi franchise are specific things like lightsabers, vehicles, droids, etc. It's not just about Han Solo, or Kylo Ren, but there is a feel of Star Wars that you can have even if those iconic characters aren't present. One of my favorite movies (maybe top 3) is Rogue One. It introduced a ton of new characters, but clearly had the feel of Star Wars and brought a lot of those unspecific elements to bear.

            There is so much iconic stuff that Star Wars fans really love that are comparable to the things that Disney fans really love. The sound of a lightsaber igniting gets my blood pumping just like hearing the honk of the Monorail.
            Last edited by Co Foo; 05-12-2022, 06:04 PM.

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            • I don’t know. I mean, the point is that YOU are on your own Star Wars adventure, either helping Hondo smuggle so Chewy can get the Falcon repaired or joining The Resistance or building your own, personal light saber, droid, etc. in that way, it’s not all that different than the idea that YOU are flying with Peter and We day in a pirate galleon over London in your own adventure.

              I would also make the argument that the vehicles, as bees, droids are their own kind of characters at this point.

              However, our relationship with the characters is what makes us fans. So I think they eventually find (hopefully sensible) ways to put other characters in the land.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by HiddenMickey87 View Post
                The land would get a couple extra points with me if it focused on the original trilogy, but I still don't think an entire Star Wars land belongs in DL.
                I AGREE
                Never like concept is at Disneyland......
                As Star War goes ,I also more with original trilogy as well !
                IMO
                Soaring like an EAGLE !

                Comment


                • Originally posted by loungefly97 View Post
                  ...However, our relationship with the characters is what makes us fans. So I think they eventually find (hopefully sensible) ways to put other characters in the land.
                  On the eve of the opening of Star Wars Land, Chapek made it clear what drives Disney to move certain characters to the foreground, but not others:

                  "It’s very symbiotic. Well this place itself [Star Wars Land] is about to launch a whole bunch of fantastic content for the Walt Disney Company based on the mythologies that we’re creating. So we’re working with Lucas very carefully to make sure that we stay within that mythology. But at the same time, we have many degrees of freedom to create our own story. You see Hondo Ohnaka, right? – who greets you at the beginning of Millennium Falcon. Certainly, Hondo was a more or less obscure character, but now he’s got his own story, right? Smuggler’s Run. Where’s that going to go? Stay tuned....

                  "By bringing these business units together it enables us to tell stories, and to act as a catalyst for further storytelling in the world of publishing, games, and even merchandise outside the berm...

                  "At Disney, it’s not about an individual operating unit, it’s about the brand – first of all the brand, the Disney brand, and then all those great franchises that fit underneath it....


                  "We’re going to create this world where everybody [Disney's business units] works together to create storytelling across time, across territories and geographies, and across lines of business, to create something that’s bigger than any one of those individual pieces. And that’s why we have a franchise orientation..."



                  "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                  it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                  together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                  designed to appeal to everyone."

                  - Walt Disney

                  "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                  - Michael Eisner

                  "It's very symbiotic."
                  - Bob Chapek

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Co Foo View Post
                    I think this is somewhat true, but I wouldn't frame it as a negative.
                    No, nor would I. And to be sure I'm not saying that this isn't the case, I just its possible think leadership might have overestimated the degree to which this is the case. I guess we'll see with the new lineup of Star Wars shows and movies...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by BasilOregano View Post

                      No, nor would I. And to be sure I'm not saying that this isn't the case, I just its possible think leadership might have overestimated the degree to which this is the case. I guess we'll see with the new lineup of Star Wars shows and movies...
                      I don't believe that the problem with the recent movies was that leadership focused more on lightsabers than character development because fans don't care about character development. I'm sure that the people who worked on the movies were trying their best to create relatable characters that were going through some epic journey. The problem is that many of those choices were questionable.

                      I remember seeing an interview with JJ Abrams on The Force Awakens and he said that they were trying to return the movies to what Star Wars was really all about. For him that meant a plucky band of upstarts taking on the fascist empire. With that as their starting point, they basically remade A New Hope with a slightly different flavor. I like the characters they introduced, but once you've bought into the premise of a planet killing weapon then a bigger weapon that can kill more planets doesn't really shock anymore.

                      Then you go into The Last Jedi and give it to Rian Johnson who takes it in a totally different direction. Where TFA was too similar to original trilogy, The Last Jedi goes in the opposite direction in ways that actually antagonized some long time fans. I remember talking to people who were upset that they treated Luke so disrespectfully. I liked that they were setting up a new generation of Jedi, with the force sensitive kids they meet on Canto Bight and Rey's mysterious lineage, but then they went away from that with the third movie.

                      Long story short, I think the main problem is a Star Wars identity crisis. How much can they rely on the past, while also moving the franchise into the future? This thread is kind of proof of what sort of challenge they have on their hands as some people won't let go of Han Solo and Darth Vader. Trying to square that circle is harder than it seems.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JLee1226 View Post

                        Ok, I just thought of something. Well, it would be a little bit of a deep cut for the general Star Wars fan and maaaybe a little weird, but what if they made a Guardians of the Galaxy style omni coaster that was based on the Rebels episode "A World Between Worlds?" For those who haven't seen the episode (spoiler), it takes place in a black void with portals to different times. The conceit of the episode is that Ezra saves Ahsoka from Vader through time travel (clip below), while being chased by the Emperor. The portal was a part of the Lothal Jedi temple, so there's a canonical explanation! But we could flash to different points, and in an in-universe sense, it would be "real."

                        I actually love that idea.
                        BGood! It's not just my motto its my name!

                        Comment



                        • Star Wars fans seem to forget that creatives, no matter how highly placed in the corporate hierarchy, do not have control of what gets greenlit. From first draft script to final cut, Chapek and his brand marketeers have final approval. Disney's Star Wars films are not independent expressions of creatives, as they were when Lucas owned the franchise. They are synergistic elements in a brand marketing strategy that involves virtually all the business units of the Company.

                          "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                          it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                          together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                          designed to appeal to everyone."

                          - Walt Disney

                          "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                          - Michael Eisner

                          "It's very symbiotic."
                          - Bob Chapek

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                            Star Wars fans seem to forget that creatives, no matter how highly placed in the corporate hierarchy, do not have control of what gets greenlit. From first draft script to final cut, Chapek and his brand marketeers have final approval. Disney's Star Wars films are not independent expressions of creatives, as they were when Lucas owned the franchise. They are synergistic elements in a brand marketing strategy that involves virtually all the business units of the Company.
                            I'm sure this is largely true, but it doesn't explain everything. The Force Awakens was a massive commercial success, generating over $2 billion at the box office. It doesn't make sense that Chapek would have allowed such a massive left turn in The Last Jedi if brand synergy drove all the decisions. The nostalgia train might be limiting from a creative standpoint, but it clearly makes for financial success. Why bother mixing that up if profit is the only thing you care about?

                            Comment



                            • Originally posted by Co Foo View Post
                              I'm sure this is largely true, but it doesn't explain everything. The Force Awakens was a massive commercial success, generating over $2 billion at the box office. It doesn't make sense that Chapek would have allowed such a massive left turn in The Last Jedi if brand synergy drove all the decisions. The nostalgia train might be limiting from a creative standpoint, but it clearly makes for financial success. Why bother mixing that up if profit is the only thing you care about?
                              Creating popular entertainment for brand marketing isn't an either/or situation, it's and/both. It's creatives having to work within the confines of brand marketing executives giving notes, at the same time the brand marketing executives have to work with the creatives or risk losing them (which Disney is notorious for -- that was how Lasseter joined Pixar).

                              My point is that in fan discussions of Star Wars, many of them seem to assume that the lead creatives have much more control over the franchise than they in fact do.

                              "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                              it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                              together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                              designed to appeal to everyone."

                              - Walt Disney

                              "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                              - Michael Eisner

                              "It's very symbiotic."
                              - Bob Chapek

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post


                                Creating popular entertainment for brand marketing isn't an either/or situation, it's and/both. It's creatives having to work within the confines of brand marketing executives giving notes, at the same time the brand marketing executives have to work with the creatives or risk losing them (which Disney is notorious for -- that was how Lasseter joined Pixar).

                                My point is that in fan discussions of Star Wars, many of them seem to assume that the lead creatives have much more control over the franchise than they in fact do.
                                I get that, but in fan discussion of Disney, blame for something usually goes to the executives. Having total control over the franchise before the Disney acquisition didn't help George Lucas make the prequels. Disney's acquisition of Marvel hasn't hurt Kevin Feige's ability to turn the MCU into the dominant box office power over the last ten years.

                                Blaming executives is the easiest thing to do. It allows us to be upset at the final product, but also not to have to say that anyone's work sucked. I saw a post earlier where someone blamed the bad lighting on an attraction on Chapek.

                                Comment


                                • ^ It's not about blame, it's about process. The reality is that no matter how talented the creative is, they do better work when the person giving them notes is an even more talented creative -- and not a brand marketing executive with one eye on the bottom line and the other eye on the corporate ladder they're climbing.
                                  "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                  it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                  together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                  designed to appeal to everyone."

                                  - Walt Disney

                                  "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                  - Michael Eisner

                                  "It's very symbiotic."
                                  - Bob Chapek

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                                    Star Wars fans seem to forget that creatives, no matter how highly placed in the corporate hierarchy, do not have control of what gets greenlit. From first draft script to final cut, Chapek and his brand marketeers have final approval. Disney's Star Wars films are not independent expressions of creatives, as they were when Lucas owned the franchise. They are synergistic elements in a brand marketing strategy that involves virtually all the business units of the Company.
                                    Nor longer about Star War movies, it all about brand marketing.......
                                    Make sense ,That why I'm got really lose after....Original Trilogy
                                    Have to Agree



                                    Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post


                                      Creating popular entertainment for brand marketing isn't an either/or situation, it's and/both. It's creatives having to work within the confines of brand marketing executives giving notes, at the same time the brand marketing executives have to work with the creatives or risk losing them (which Disney is notorious for -- that was how Lasseter joined Pixar).

                                      My point is that in fan discussions of Star Wars, many of them seem to assume that the lead creatives have much more control over the franchise than they in fact do.
                                      I agree with some points, Mr. Wiggins, but I might disagree with the last part in the case of The Last Jedi. I'm under the impression that they indeed allowed Rian to have all the storytelling power for his film. I have a theory that Kathleen Kennedy was pretty hands-off until there was what we call the 'backlash.'

                                      It feels like there are moments where some sections of the Disney corp have creative freedom, but then it's reeled in and becomes constrictive again, possibly due to PR backlash or wanting to take credit on the latest creative endeavor (i.e. cash-in).

                                      But yeah, overall, executive control is quite suffocating, and it does limit the storytelling power of their creatives to a big extent. I wonder how much Chapek is able to review, and which parts of the company he's pretty hands-off with? Or if he's just letting a lot of his lackeys just go wild.

                                      Comment


                                      • Correct me if I'm wrong, but most anything related to the ST would be under Iger, not Chapek?

                                        I don't think anybody on the outside really has a deep understanding of the the inner workings. There are some lofty suppositions being made here that are perhaps overstating the extent of things. While I have no doubt Disney executives have nixed some things (FinnPoe), and it seems reasonable to assume certain toyetic elements tie into marketing (they fly now!?), I don't buy that Disney is making/influencing every decision. Specifically with LEGO, sets seem to be picked based on preproduction assets. One reason is don't believe every decision is micro managed is the TLJ "AT-ST" set. I put that in quotes because its really only half of one, from the hangar scene where the 'head' rips off to reveal BB8. The LEGO set is missing the head! This probably happened because LEGO was sent pre production art out of context and figured the AT-ST just looked like that. Or am I to believe Chapek personally pushed a headless AT-ST through? There's also the Resistance Transport Pod, which is not even seen on screen. If "brand marketing executives" are influencing what gets made and what's seen on screen, they sure did a poor job there.

                                        Or, you know, LEGO was working off preproduction assets which changed for the final edit.

                                        Also, let's not pretend like the first thing Lucas asked for wasn't merchandising rights and that the OT was not itself responsible for an action figure and merchandising boom. The synergy has always been there. Anybody for a bowl of C3PO's?
                                        ​​​​​
                                        Restore Walt's Disneyland: bring back the Aluminum Hall of Fame!

                                        Comment



                                        • The center of power at Burbank is Bob Chapek, Kareem Daniel and Christine McCarthy. Kathleen Kennedy, Kevin Feige and Pete Doctor are not part of that core group: They're creatives who are heads of acquired business units. They are not by any stretch of the imagination independent studio heads.

                                          Many fans still have the same perception of Disney's film units that they have about WDI -- that creatives have the same power over what goes into the product that they had in pre-Eisner days. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Disney is a Wall Street-focused hierarchical bureaucracy in which even the top-level creatives are on the second tier of power. No matter who occupies those positions, they will never be part of the inner circle -- and every non-creative VP and executive wannabe in the Company knows it.

                                          Bottom line, the PR spin since Eisner's day has been to publicly tout Disney's creatives, while internally diminishing their power. The main difference with Chapek is that he's more ham-handed and tone-deaf about it. Eisner and Iger, having come up through entertainment, had more finesse in their domination of creatives, but the power structure was the same.

                                          Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 05-14-2022, 05:32 AM.
                                          "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                          it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                          together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                          designed to appeal to everyone."

                                          - Walt Disney

                                          "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                          - Michael Eisner

                                          "It's very symbiotic."
                                          - Bob Chapek

                                          Comment

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