ROTR was still not ready to open if hours long breakdowns is a consistent thing

[spinycactus]

Officially open or not. Who cares. It could have had all the bugs worked out, worked at 95% plus capacity for a week, then went down, and people would still complain that DL screwed this all up. ANd then somwhere Chapek's name would get inserted to blame everything on him like always.

I don't see anyone complaining on here when other rides go down for awhile like Indy or Space Mountain. It happens. If you don't like it, stop going to DL.

I agree. Indiana Jones goes down practically every day. For 25 years.

[Bob Weaver]

I guess the First Order wins after all.

[TacAlert]

Officially open or not. Who cares. It could have had all the bugs worked out, worked at 95% plus capacity for a week, then went down, and people would still complain that DL screwed this all up. ANd then somwhere Chapek's name would get inserted to blame everything on him like always.

I don't see anyone complaining on here when other rides go down for awhile like Indy or Space Mountain. It happens. If you don't like it, stop going to DL.

[Spongeocto4]

(Sigh...), no, they wouldn't say "we have nothing to announce at this time". They would respond to questions/complaints by giving people the actual opening date. If they were doing "soft" openings now, rather than being officially open, they might find themselves in the same situation that they're in now, with one exception: You would still have people going to City Hall to complain, or they would complain to random cast members, but they wouldn't really have grounds to complain. You see the difference? Look, let's say they announced a "hard" opening on February 14th (Valentine's/Presidents weekend), but then started doing softs on January 17th, with no advance notice. First of all, you wouldn't have as many people who planned vacations for that day, since there was no advance notice, and secondly, when people would go to City Hall and say:"But I saw on Micechat that you're open!", they could remind the guest that "Micechat" is not an official source for information about the resort. Nor are any other fansites, or other non-approved sources.
You understand the difference between an "official" and "unofficial" source? You understand that billboards, T.V. commercials, print ads, disneyland,go.com, the APP, these are all official sources, and they all said "January 17th".
Also, if there was a soft opening going on now, they would have sort of "unspoken" permission to go entire days with the attraction not operating at all, and people, again, would not have legit grounds to complain. Also, on the day of my hypothetical "hard" opening, you would probably have slightly smaller crowds, or at least fewer people trying to get on the ride due to a certain number of us APers and others already having had our fill of it, possibly not showing up, or just showing up to watch the opening ceremony.

Agreed. Disney has held soft openings numerous times. I remember riding Expedition Everest (TWICE) during February soft openings, despite the ride not opening til April. In all honesty, Disney should of had public soft openings for this ride a month or two ago, but they chose not to (Was it because of the holidays?), with only having cast member previews.

And while the ride appears to be a new state of the art E+ Ticket ride, the fact that the ride is bugged down with issues, sets the ride back. I'm not even enthused to ride, because I don't know if and when I will ride during my next trip.

And what even more disappointing, as it was pointed out, is that the ride has been in development for at least 5 years or more. A half of a decade to create, test and build. And yet none of these issues were dealt within that time frame. Ocassional issues are one thing. But to flat out expect the ride crash everyday for multiple hours, is an engineering low for WDI.

[micromind]

Really? I build complicated things too, but you're telling me that if you built something with no prior field trial or beta test, that was down (just guessing based on the thrill-stats) 15-20% of the time, that was being praised as one of the best things in it's genre, a little after one week of launching you would still be fired by your company? I guess I'm just lucky my company views our launches as more iterative processes.

Look, I agree it's pretty lame that they made a huge deal about the opening and then clearly presented something in "beta" form. That's fair.
But I also have a fairly good idea how large corporations make decisions. And I promise you when they were pitching their ideas for this ride....there was what we got and probably another idea that was much more scaled down and "safe". Think Universal's Transformer's ride where you get shuttled to a corner to (inexplicably) have Optimus Prime spray water on you, only to then get thrown to another corner of the building to have Bumblebee...spray water on you. But the folks with the really clever idea won the room. However, the less patient the masses are with a ride after the first week, the more risk adverse the corporation is going to become. The more we empower the "bean-counters" next time to declare: "I told them to go with the track ride where Darth Vader sprays the audience with force juice."

To be honest: I haven't personally even been on the ride. I'm taking my family in February. I'm also preparing myself for the possibility that we won't be able to see it. Still, I'd rather have a great ride eventually then stuck with another cookie-cutter attraction that works from day one. Astro-Orbiter has barely any down time....I still don't want to ride it.

I'm presently working on an oil refining plant, part of it has hydrogen gas at 1400 PSI. There is no room for any kind of failure...........

But I agree with you, Disney has built a reputation of cost-cutting to the point of idiocy and I think that's a big part of the downtime here.

The Company I work for doesn't cut costs because of the obvious safety hazards and yes, with any ride that carries people, safety is always first. But often fear of litigation will foster 'safety to the point of stupid'.

[9oldmen]

But how would that work in reality? This isn't some new app you and I make in our basement and hide in the app store. It's a major AAA ride in the most popular amusement park in the world. Not advertising, but allowing people to ride it (as you even concede) would hit sites like this and all through SoCal in a matter of minutes. Then people would be swarming Disneyland with questions as to why they didn't bother to tell anyone and DL is supposed to act coy and say: "We have nothing to announce at this time, it's not officially open", all while people are lining up for the ride behind them? Then this entire forum would be hammering them for dropping the ball on communication, as if they forgot to announce it properly.

(Sigh...), no, they wouldn't say "we have nothing to announce at this time". They would respond to questions/complaints by giving people the actual opening date. If they were doing "soft" openings now, rather than being officially open, they might find themselves in the same situation that they're in now, with one exception: You would still have people going to City Hall to complain, or they would complain to random cast members, but they wouldn't really have grounds to complain. You see the difference? Look, let's say they announced a "hard" opening on February 14th (Valentine's/Presidents weekend), but then started doing softs on January 17th, with no advance notice. First of all, you wouldn't have as many people who planned vacations for that day, since there was no advance notice, and secondly, when people would go to City Hall and say:"But I saw on Micechat that you're open!", they could remind the guest that "Micechat" is not an official source for information about the resort. Nor are any other fansites, or other non-approved sources.
You understand the difference between an "official" and "unofficial" source? You understand that billboards, T.V. commercials, print ads, disneyland,go.com, the APP, these are all official sources, and they all said "January 17th".
Also, if there was a soft opening going on now, they would have sort of "unspoken" permission to go entire days with the attraction not operating at all, and people, again, would not have legit grounds to complain. Also, on the day of my hypothetical "hard" opening, you would probably have slightly smaller crowds, or at least fewer people trying to get on the ride due to a certain number of us APers and others already having had our fill of it, possibly not showing up, or just showing up to watch the opening ceremony.

[CMARSH]

I realize that the ride is fairly complicated but so is the machinery I build and maintain. If I had this many breakdowns, I'd be out of a job in less than a minute.........

Really? I build complicated things too, but you're telling me that if you built something with no prior field trial or beta test, that was down (just guessing based on the thrill-stats) 15-20% of the time, that was being praised as one of the best things in it's genre, a little after one week of launching you would still be fired by your company? I guess I'm just lucky my company views our launches as more iterative processes.

Look, I agree it's pretty lame that they made a huge deal about the opening and then clearly presented something in "beta" form. That's fair.
But I also have a fairly good idea how large corporations make decisions. And I promise you when they were pitching their ideas for this ride....there was what we got and probably another idea that was much more scaled down and "safe". Think Universal's Transformer's ride where you get shuttled to a corner to (inexplicably) have Optimus Prime spray water on you, only to then get thrown to another corner of the building to have Bumblebee...spray water on you. But the folks with the really clever idea won the room. However, the less patient the masses are with a ride after the first week, the more risk adverse the corporation is going to become. The more we empower the "bean-counters" next time to declare: "I told them to go with the track ride where Darth Vader sprays the audience with force juice."

To be honest: I haven't personally even been on the ride. I'm taking my family in February. I'm also preparing myself for the possibility that we won't be able to see it. Still, I'd rather have a great ride eventually then stuck with another cookie-cutter attraction that works from day one. Astro-Orbiter has barely any down time....I still don't want to ride it.

[CMARSH]

So that's what they should have done. A non advertised soft opening with "non advertised" being the operative term.

But how would that work in reality? This isn't some new app you and I make in our basement and hide in the app store. It's a major AAA ride in the most popular amusement park in the world. Not advertising, but allowing people to ride it (as you even concede) would hit sites like this and all through SoCal in a matter of minutes. Then people would be swarming Disneyland with questions as to why they didn't bother to tell anyone and DL is supposed to act coy and say: "We have nothing to announce at this time, it's not officially open", all while people are lining up for the ride behind them? Then this entire forum would be hammering them for dropping the ball on communication, as if they forgot to announce it properly.

[micromind]

I realize that the ride is fairly complicated but so is the machinery I build and maintain. If I had this many breakdowns, I'd be out of a job in less than a minute.........

[WaltDisney'sAlec]

I hope would-be vacation planners just forget about the expectation of getting on this for the foreseeable future. Maybe well later into the year. But not now and for the next months.

Its one thing for local APers to drop by. Not for out of state or out of country visitors who are spending thousands and expecting to get their money’s worth.

I don't see why they don't just guarantee spots on the ride for hotel stays like they did when Galaxy's Edge first opened. It was practically unnecessary then, but now it's needed and they won't even bother.

[WaltDisney'sAlec]

Exactly. What isn’t mentioned enough is the fact that as guests we all jump through all the hoops - we follow their directions - we wait all day and night hoping and praying that their multi million dollar attraction works well enough for ourselves to ride - only to be randomly let down and oh well just come back and try this whole routine another day and possibly and more like probably only get disappointed all over again.

Take myself as an example - I’m taking the day away from my work - a buddy is taking the day off as well this week to try this insanity ourselves...

And yea I pay this company very well for SERVICE - that’s what I expect for my contract with them.

The blatant incompetence and lack of empathy for the customer and their loyalty is beyond astonishing. To expect a all attraction fast pass to be handed out at ROTR if you don’t get on COSTS THIS COMPANY nothing. Nothing! In fact the park has been overall mild - attendance wise - since the ROTR opening making offering a “make good” all the kinder and appreciative to the inconvenienced CUSTOMER.

The aggressive arrogance by the company is astonishing.

Reminder: WDW gave out free 1-day parkhoppers to guests who didn't get to ride after being guaranteed a group. Disneyland won't even give us a fastpass. It tells you who is making the decisions *cough*cough* Rebecca Campbell and the TDA beancounters who have already overloaded the FastPass system to all but force people to buy MaxPass

[Tomorrowland_1967]

I hope would-be vacation planners just forget about the expectation of getting on this for the foreseeable future. Maybe well later into the year. But not now and for the next few months.

Its one thing for local APers to drop by. Not for out of state or out of country visitors who are spending thousands and expecting to get their money’s worth.

[WaltDisney'sAlec]

What they should have done was have a soft opening that was not advertised.Yes of course, everyone would find out about it, but then, if there were problems with excessive downtime, people not getting on, etc., they could use the excuse that it's not officially open. This happens all the time. You do unadvertised soft openings, with signage outside the ride saying words to the effect that "this attraction is in technical rehearsals and is subject to closures" and so on.
And as far as giving away spoilers, what's to spoil? The attraction already opened in Florida. That cat is already out of the bag.
I went to the park on January 17th, arriving at the crack of dawn expecting to get on a ride that was advertised as being open. Apparently it's too much to ask that I get on.
So that's what they should have done. A non advertised soft opening with "non advertised" being the operative term.

This is exactly what happened for Star Tours 2.0. I was fortunate enough to ride it the soft-opening weekend, but that was the last time I remember Disney did something like that in Disneyland. It then had its official opening a week later. From what I can tell, Disney has given up on doing this in favor of upcharge parties like for GotG:MB and Pixar Pier.

I've heard this sentiment a lot from people in different threads, essentially: "They should have waited longer or tested more before opening it." Much like software, the only way I assume they could uncover some of these issues is beta testing with actual customers. How would you all propose they administer that? I imagine we would have heard just as many complaints (if not more) if they only invited premium APs to help "beta test" for the next couple of months, especially if YouTube and other channels are full of reports from these people about how awesome the ride is (minus the occasional breakdowns). And if the beta test was open to everyone, I'm guessing that we would still have the massive crowds and the inevitable complaints that it's impossible to get a beta boarding group. Soft openings may have worked in the past when certain people could ride something and only the people they know would find out about it. But in the age of social media, how many people on YouTube need to talk about the ride, give away spoilers and mention how they personally didn't have any problems before the masses demand that DL opens the thing up to everyone?

So I'm not sure what we expect DL to do here? It's not like they increased the park prices in anticipation of this ride, then the ride is broken or impossible to secure tickets for. Based on the reports of instability we're hearing, it's probably safe to consider RotR currently in beta testing and we're all invited to participate if we so desire. If I don't want to do that (completely understandable), then I pretend like the ride doesn't exist for the next couple of months. But its seems rather disingenuous to simultaneously complain that they should have tested this more before releasing and also complain that you're "forced" to be part of what is essentially the beta tests.

I envisioned a boarding groups system that slowly increases its max capacity over weeks/months as ride operators learn the quirks of the ride. Offer ride reservations to people with hotel stays (like they did for the opening of GE), and give them an extra fastpass if it breaks down during their timeslot. That way Disney controls the capacity the ride sees. If they have extra spots, open the standby queue to people in the land for a half hour or so, then close it off. They can increase the time window to enter the standby queue if they want to take on more capacity.

But most of all, do not advertise this ride as "officially" open. Because now it's part of your ticket value, and not getting to ride because their app doesn't load fast enough leaves people with a sour taste in their mouth even if the app's legal jargon said there were no guarantees. Heck, WDW was giving out free 1-day parkhoppers for faux pas ROTR encountered. Here people are forced to sit in line for an hour or two while they wait to get the ride back online. If you're called as part of a boarding group and the ride breaks down, Disney should at least give you a readmit pass/free fastpass if you leave the line. Guests are getting shortchanged here just so Disney can brag they got the ride open.

If you ask me, people aren't being fooled. Yes, guests are clicking through the turnstiles so Disney gets that attendance bump they can report to Wall Street for the quarter. However, with so many APs going home after they find out they won't get to ride, food and merchandise revenue won't be as high as it could be if they stuck around. When people leave the park shortly after 8 or 9 am, that's money left on the table as far as Disney's concerned. But I digress.

For Space Mountain I can understand that with the vehicles whizzing around and not enough "parking spots" at the end, the ride must stay in continuous motion or freeze everything in place, requiring a slow reset. But a "dark ride" should be able to periodically pause its vehicles without bringing the whole thing down, one would think. And I'd assume that the show scenes are triggered by vehicle approach, rather than be timed events that the vehicle must be on schedule for, and if the schedule is thrown off then the whole thing goes down.

Indiana Jones has certain breaks in the show scenes where the jeep can pause if there's a backup in the loading area. There aren't really breaks in the show like that here, unless they just decide to slow the vehicles down. That runs into problems with the timing of all the effects though, from the elevator lifts to the lightsaber effects. Still, I would hope there was some way to figure out all the timing.

[Eagleman]

Exactly. What isn’t mentioned enough is the fact that as guests we all jump through all the hoops - we follow their directions - we wait all day and night hoping and praying that their multi million dollar attraction works well enough for ourselves to ride - only to be randomly let down and oh well just come back and try this whole routine another day and possibly and more like probably only get disappointed all over again.

Take myself as an example - I’m taking the day away from my work - a buddy is taking the day off as well this week to try this insanity ourselves...

And yea I pay this company very well for SERVICE

The blatant incompetence and lack of empathy for the customer and their loyalty is beyond astonishing.

Why customer's need to VOTE with there wallet ........
IMO

[Disneyidol]

What they should have done was have a soft opening that was not advertised.Yes of course, everyone would find out about it, but then, if there were problems with excessive downtime, people not getting on, etc., they could use the excuse that it's not officially open. This happens all the time. You do unadvertised soft openings, with signage outside the ride saying words to the effect that "this attraction is in technical rehearsals and is subject to closures" and so on.
And as far as giving away spoilers, what's to spoil? The attraction already opened in Florida. That cat is already out of the bag.
I went to the park on January 17th, arriving at the crack of dawn expecting to get on a ride that was advertised as being open. Apparently it's too much to ask that I get on.
So that's what they should have done. A non advertised soft opening with "non advertised" being the operative term.

Exactly. What isn’t mentioned enough is the fact that as guests we all jump through all the hoops - we follow their directions - we wait all day and night hoping and praying that their multi million dollar attraction works well enough for ourselves to ride - only to be randomly let down and oh well just come back and try this whole routine another day and possibly and more like probably only get disappointed all over again.

Take myself as an example - I’m taking the day away from my work - a buddy is taking the day off as well this week to try this insanity ourselves...

And yea I pay this company very well for SERVICE - that’s what I expect for my contract with them.

The blatant incompetence and lack of empathy for the customer and their loyalty is beyond astonishing. To expect a all attraction fast pass to be handed out at ROTR if you don’t get on COSTS THIS COMPANY nothing. Nothing! In fact the park has been overall mild - attendance wise - since the ROTR opening making offering a “make good” all the kinder and appreciative to the inconvenienced CUSTOMER.

The aggressive arrogance by the company is astonishing.

[Eagleman]

You are dead on its not ready for prime time. But hey at least it's open I guess is their motto.

After 5 years of advertisement and many months of delays...............They got there OPEN sign on
Even if Disney , was not really ready !

Motto overpromised and underdelivered
IMO

[9oldmen]

I've heard this sentiment a lot from people in different threads, essentially: "They should have waited longer or tested more before opening it." Much like software, the only way I assume they could uncover some of these issues is beta testing with actual customers. How would you all propose they administer that?
Soft openings may have worked in the past when certain people could ride something and only the people they know would find out about it. But in the age of social media, how many people on YouTube need to talk about the ride, give away spoilers and mention how they personally didn't have any problems before the masses demand that DL opens the thing up to everyone?
.

What they should have done was have a soft opening that was not advertised.Yes of course, everyone would find out about it, but then, if there were problems with excessive downtime, people not getting on, etc., they could use the excuse that it's not officially open. This happens all the time. You do unadvertised soft openings, with signage outside the ride saying words to the effect that "this attraction is in technical rehearsals and is subject to closures" and so on.
And as far as giving away spoilers, what's to spoil? The attraction already opened in Florida. That cat is already out of the bag.
I went to the park on January 17th, arriving at the crack of dawn expecting to get on a ride that was advertised as being open. Apparently it's too much to ask that I get on.
So that's what they should have done. A non advertised soft opening with "non advertised" being the operative term.

[bigcatrik]

I've heard CMs tell stories about difficult ride systems where if they don't get the timing right, they have to do a reset. Space Mountain comes to mind, which is why sometimes you're sent through even with empty seats in your vehicle.

For Space Mountain I can understand that with the vehicles whizzing around and not enough "parking spots" at the end, the ride must stay in continuous motion or freeze everything in place, requiring a slow reset. But a "dark ride" should be able to periodically pause its vehicles without bringing the whole thing down, one would think. And I'd assume that the show scenes are triggered by vehicle approach, rather than be timed events that the vehicle must be on schedule for, and if the schedule is thrown off then the whole thing goes down.

[CMARSH]

I've heard this sentiment a lot from people in different threads, essentially: "They should have waited longer or tested more before opening it." Much like software, the only way I assume they could uncover some of these issues is beta testing with actual customers. How would you all propose they administer that? I imagine we would have heard just as many complaints (if not more) if they only invited premium APs to help "beta test" for the next couple of months, especially if YouTube and other channels are full of reports from these people about how awesome the ride is (minus the occasional breakdowns). And if the beta test was open to everyone, I'm guessing that we would still have the massive crowds and the inevitable complaints that it's impossible to get a beta boarding group. Soft openings may have worked in the past when certain people could ride something and only the people they know would find out about it. But in the age of social media, how many people on YouTube need to talk about the ride, give away spoilers and mention how they personally didn't have any problems before the masses demand that DL opens the thing up to everyone?

So I'm not sure what we expect DL to do here? It's not like they increased the park prices in anticipation of this ride, then the ride is broken or impossible to secure tickets for. Based on the reports of instability we're hearing, it's probably safe to consider RotR currently in beta testing and we're all invited to participate if we so desire. If I don't want to do that (completely understandable), then I pretend like the ride doesn't exist for the next couple of months. But its seems rather disingenuous to simultaneously complain that they should have tested this more before releasing and also complain that you're "forced" to be part of what is essentially the beta tests.

[WaltDisney'sAlec]

Disneyland sounds like it's been having even worse issues that WDW's version. I remember when ROTR first opened in Florida, someone caught Scott Trowbridge saying that Disneyland's version is basically just as ready as WDW's as of that first weekend in December.

Even with an extra month and a half to test the ride, it still was not ready for an official opening. I've heard CMs tell stories about difficult ride systems where if they don't get the timing right, they have to do a reset. Space Mountain comes to mind, which is why sometimes you're sent through even with empty seats in your vehicle.

If WDI and CMs haven't exactly figured out how to time everything perfectly, then it's going to take a while before all the kinks are worked out. Nothing is as good for training as letting real crowds experience the ride, and it's become increasingly clear that Disney has yet to perfect the ride systems to create a good guest experience. This is what soft openings are for, and Disney is creating a bad experience for guests and CMs when it doesn't have to, all to preserve the illusion that they opened the ride and it was a massive success.

Don't get me wrong: the ride is incredible and hats off to WDI for building something this ambitious and monumental. Disney is just going about opening the ride in the wrong way. The ride may be great, but Disney overpromised and underdelivered with its operation.