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Indiana Jones: Then and Now

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  • Theme Park Chat
    replied
    Originally posted by EdwardGrimm View Post

    I went opening day and the Diamond Stones were purely decorational. I don't think this was ever a practical effect aside from rumors which have grown.
    It's been said that they stopped working by opening day but worked during previews.

    Leave a comment:


  • EdwardGrimm
    replied
    Originally posted by TLand2055 View Post
    Was there yesterday and can confirm that the spike ceiling does move again. The diamond stones still don't work though.
    I went opening day and the Diamond Stones were purely decorational. I don't think this was ever a practical effect aside from rumors which have grown.

    Leave a comment:


  • sailor310
    replied
    I rode it the 14th,disappointing. Folks covered most of what doesn't work, but remember when the bridge actually seemed like it was going to shake out from under you. Also, in the bed under the stream, I don't think I've ever seen just plain rocks until the 14th. Wasn't it a flowing lava effect?

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Originally posted by TheBirdsSingWords View Post
    I first rode Indy within weeks of its opening in 1995, and distinctly remember that the "big dip" in the finale, when the rolling boulder appears to be coming toward you, was DRAMATIC, one big whooshing drop.

    Very smooth, unlike the semi-jerky drop we have today. I recall that there were complaints of whiplash and other motion injuries following the attraction's opening, and that there was talk things had been "toned down" to prevent this.

    I one that felt this ride ,was very jerky (not male friendly)
    So having it "toned down" was wise and needed be done !
    IMO
    Last edited by Eagleman; 02-15-2020, 03:47 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheBirdsSingWords
    replied
    I first rode Indy within weeks of its opening in 1995, and distinctly remember that the "big dip" in the finale, when the rolling boulder appears to be coming toward you, was DRAMATIC, one big whooshing drop.

    Very smooth, unlike the semi-jerky drop we have today. I recall that there were complaints of whiplash and other motion injuries following the attraction's opening, and that there was talk things had been "toned down" to prevent this.

    Leave a comment:


  • TLand2055
    replied
    Was there yesterday and can confirm that the spike ceiling does move again. The diamond stones still don't work though.

    Leave a comment:


  • wlc
    replied
    Originally posted by DarthBrett78 View Post
    Another effect that changed drastically since the original version was the first time you see Indy. The original figure had his back to the door and was using his back to keep the door closed. Where as the newer audio-animatronic figure is sort of off to the side facing the track and pointing to the exit/entrance of the giant room. They also added the cool effect where you see his fedora silhouette on the wall as you enter that room when they installed the second and improved figure. Using YouTube videos, I believe the new figure was added some time in late 2009. I've seen videos from Sep '09 with the original Indy still there, but by Dec '09 the 2nd (and current) Indy figure was in place.
    Thanks for the reminder. I had known that Indy was changed, but until I saw that picture I totally forgot how bad the original Indy animatronic looked. Beyond his face not looking right (which we accepted as part of the Harrison Ford vs Disney stuff), his clothes look so ill-fitting like he's wearing whatever was leftover in someone's closet. And his body angle just looks so unnatural.

    Leave a comment:


  • DarthBrett78
    replied
    Originally posted by Quentin View Post

    It got so bad that a guest died on Big Thunder Mountain.
    The tragic Christmas Eve Columbia accident in '98 five years before the BTMRR accident also basically happened due to budget cuts with maintenance/training, or lack thereof.

    Back on-topic, I was lucky enough to go on Indy opening day. It was pretty special and was well worth the 4-5 hour wait we had in the cool winter drizzle that day. I remember the spike ceiling working back then, it was a great effect! So glad to hear the ceiling is physically moving once again! One effect that has never worked since the queue-only preview in winter '95 and was already not working by opening day was right after that spike chamber, the columns and stones above you on the scaffolding would shake and appear to be ready to topple over on top of you if you stepped on certain diamond stones on the ground. Does anybody else remember seeing this when they had the queue-only previews before the actual ride opened? Also, I liked when they handed out the code cards and had fun trying to decipher the hidden messages all over. Granted, this would not work now since the line usually moves fast now.

    I also remember the rock falling effect in the big room entrance scene. One effect that actually is better now, or at least when it is working, is the rat room. The effect early on was a lot less effective and looked even less convincing than it does now. The more turbulent experience that was in effect the first few years was also pretty intense and it's sad Disney was forced to tone it down from complaining guests. I think they should have a "rough" side and "less rough" side like someone else mentioned, much like Mission SPACE at Epcot.

    And I do remember the older, first giant snake too! It was definitely a little more cartoonish than the current one, but the new one is much more animated and actually "strikes" at you unlike the original one did. And I also only remember the retractable fangs on the 2nd version.

    Another effect that changed drastically since the original version was the first time you see Indy. The original figure had his back to the door and was using his back to keep the door closed. Where as the newer audio-animatronic figure is sort of off to the side facing the track and pointing to the exit/entrance of the giant room. They also added the cool effect where you see his fedora silhouette on the wall as you enter that room when they installed the second and improved figure. Using YouTube videos, I believe the new figure was added some time in late 2009. I've seen videos from Sep '09 with the original Indy still there, but by Dec '09 the 2nd (and current) Indy figure was in place.



    Original Indy (1995-2009)

    Click image for larger version  Name:	original indy.PNG Views:	8 Size:	392.4 KB ID:	8612331Click image for larger version  Name:	og indy.PNG Views:	8 Size:	718.7 KB ID:	8612332










    Current Indy (2010-)

    Click image for larger version  Name:	new indy.PNG Views:	8 Size:	136.7 KB ID:	8612333Click image for larger version  Name:	2nd indy 2.PNG Views:	8 Size:	320.4 KB ID:	8612334Click image for larger version  Name:	2nd indy 3.PNG Views:	8 Size:	370.5 KB ID:	8612335Click image for larger version  Name:	2nd indy.PNG Views:	8 Size:	560.9 KB ID:	8612336
    Last edited by DarthBrett78; 02-03-2020, 11:28 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    IMO- I think Indiana Jones Adventure
    need to go down for a year

    renovation can refer to making something new, or bringing something back to life .
    But at this point of time.......I do not believe Disney
    would spend that type of money !

    Leave a comment:


  • AhpalovestheDuck
    replied
    I stilI wonder if the flames will ever be restored to their original state?

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Originally posted by MonteJ View Post
    This ride was “glorious”!
    I sincerely hope that they restore it to its former glory.
    Now the attraction needs lots of TLC.....to get it back to a “Glorious” time......
    But expect it be long time coming
    like many other attractions and land !
    IMO

    Leave a comment:


  • MonteJ
    replied
    This ride was “glorious”! The reveal of the big room with the bridge had the laser eye, an impressive fire vortex, and fire balls. It was awesome! I’m certain it was hugely expensive to keep going, but the dark, underwhelming version currently in operation is a pale substitute for what it used to be. I sincerely hope that they restore it to its former glory.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Wiggins
    replied
    Originally posted by Quentin View Post
    It got so bad that a guest died on Big Thunder Mountain.
    After the dark days of the Pressler era, safety has not been scrimped on. Elements of show, however, are another story, as Indy and Splash demonstrate.

    Leave a comment:


  • IndyAdventurer
    replied
    Indy is obviously a big deal for me (I mean, I made it my username). I remember riding it at age 12 in 1995, less than a year after it opened. I haven't made it back to Disneyland many times since, but I was able to ride it last month and was struck by both how well it holds up and also how many simple effects have been lost--especially ones that come at otherwise quieter parts of the ride where they're needed most.

    I understand why the rotating doors and falling ice effects were cut. They were expensive to maintain. If the doors malfunctioned, the whole ride went down. The ice machine was designed poorly and would be impossibly expensive to replace. (I actually never got to see the falling ice effect in person, but if you wanna see a clip of it, this video has it at 5:14 -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZaKXPmceMU) But I'm also not mad about losing either of them: The doors were a nice touch, but ultimately just a fun gimmick at the beinning. And the ice effect when it was working, was competing against other incredible effects and visuals (the reveal of the main chamber, the skeleton's eye flames) so it wasn't necessary. That moment in the ride was already quite thrilling. They were both nice things to have, but neither was vital to the ride experience.

    But there are a number of smaller, simpler effects that I was sad to see just weren't there anymore--particularly because they're effects that occur at times where they are the primary "exciting" thing happening. The skeletons no longer pop out toward you (or at least didn't the three times I rode it last month). The feeling of air bursts during the bugs scene was lost or greatly reduced. There's a long segment just before the arrow room that's now fully dark since the fog/rats effect is no longer working.

    That means that right now, there's a 20 second period where you just wind through a bunch of skeletons and bugs and not much HAPPENS. Yes, the theming is still beautiful to look at, but it's lost the little details that make those moments pop and feel not just pretty, but thrilling. Same goes for the fog/rats effect: There's now another 20 seconds of downtime after you pass under the skull and before the darts room where you're basically just turning in blackness. When the rest of the ride is SO well-designed and SO well paced, these short "dead" zones stand out more.

    Even more frustrating is that none of these effects are big, difficult, expensive effects to maintain. They're relatively simple and could be fixed within a reasonable budget. Unlike the door effect, none of them would cause the ride to go down if they malfunctioned. Unlike the falling ice, none of them would require massive alterations and construction. And yet, they aren't working (or aren't working reliably).

    Overall, I think Disney's done an incredible job of maintaining a remarkably themed and intricate ride, and honestly, I'd say they're 95% of the way there--I just wish they could go the extra mile and keep up some of these small effects that really help punch up otherwise less exciting segments and really hit that magical 100% mark.

    Leave a comment:


  • TLand2055
    replied
    There were also the bamboo and diamond stones in the queue, as well as the general queue experience due to Fastpass. In my opinion they should have made Fastpass go through the exit like single rider does.
    It was mentioned earlier that the bamboo effect was restored recently. I'll try to check that out on my next visit.

    I also recall hearing about the ice rocks, larger fire effects, and rougher experience. I can still feel the heat from the flames, but they do seem a bit small. In terms of roughness, they have two stations already. It wouldn't be too hard to make one side rougher and one side smoother a la Mission Space.

    The problem with the door effect is that if I remember correctly, the company that made the doors' parts went bankrupt, which meant no more off-the-shelf replacement parts. So when the cable controlling the doors snapped, the effect stayed broken and eventually they added the current projection mapping. I'm pretty sure that if the effect was to be brought back, the entire chamber area would need to be gutted.

    I do agree with the thoughts on the rat log. They should either improve the effects (i.e. a physical log or maybe even effects in the seats) or add in the fire-breathing statue from Tokyo. I have read anecdotal comments on how Tokyo's version breaks down less as well, but their ride system is different from ours due to regulations. At points their ride sounds somewhat like Rocket Rods did.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Real McDuck
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

    Exactly. Disneyland's maintenance department in the pre-Eisner era was focused on keeping the show in topnotch condition for the guests. After Eisner put Pressler in charge of Disneyland, maintenance was whittled down to keep profits and bonuses high. The result is visible in rides like Indy and Splash.
    Indy and Splash mountain both usually leave me bothered after disembarking just because I can usually see a number of broken elements throughout them. Well, obviously with Indy since it would take a multi-year closure to fix it.

    I think the problem in both attractions is that they are still incredibly popular to guests, and guest optics may indeed deem that neither can truly be shut down for an extended, extensive refurbishment, lest it hurt projected income expectations, which in turn would leave investors upset

    I have also wondered for a time if the situation for both is akin to the idea of refurbishing Tomorrowland, which would be expected to shut down large portions of the land for multiple years. A Disneyland Presidential term is usually three years. Looking at the state that Tomorrowland has been in for so long, I like to think that each new incoming president sees it as a project that would possibly last their entire term and be an immediate problem which they would rather just pass the onto whomever follows them.

    Both attractions have their own issues to deal with: Indy's opening turn table function is broken. Good luck getting to the heart of the problem. Splash mountain is decorated with dozens of ancient animatronic characters, and an infrastructure that is soaked.

    It would be great if both attractions could go down for a year or two, be gutted, and have everything within be replaced, but how feasible is that?

    Leave a comment:


  • DLHMFAN
    replied
    I remember back in 1995, Indiana Jones was the new kid on the block and it was a thrilling. The ride is pretty much the same. I'm glad the ride never adding an audio animatronic of Shia Labouf. That right there would have ruined the ride for many.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quentin
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

    Exactly. Disneyland's maintenance department in the pre-Eisner era was focused on keeping the show in topnotch condition for the guests. After Eisner put Pressler in charge of Disneyland, maintenance was whittled down to keep profits and bonuses high. The result is visible in rides like Indy and Splash.
    It got so bad that a guest died on Big Thunder Mountain.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Wiggins
    replied
    Originally posted by Starcade View Post
    I am right there with you. I've been riding it only for 6 years and I remember all the commercials when it launched and am a huge Indiana Jones Fan since Raiders as a kid and I have always been let down by not only how much is always not working but like Splash Mtn. how much you can tell is broken or turned off they have not even done a good job about hiding the neglect. And it is neglect in the pre-Eisner era if something broke on a ride it was shut down asap and maintenance was on it within days and the machine shop would fabricate any part needed on the spot. yes rides might have gone down more frequently but they came back up quicker as well because they did not let damaged features pile up like they do now. Both Splash and Indy are borderline depressing to see not one but multiple animatronics stationary or to see sectioned of the ride in the dark to hide the lack of effect etc. As a kid in the 70's/80's it was so rare to see a broken ride that you would almost relish it as a seeing a rare moment. Sure a ride being closed down was not too uncommon but nowadays seeing a broken ride has become so common people almost expect it. It's that erosion of expectation that I often find sad.
    Exactly. Disneyland's maintenance department in the pre-Eisner era was focused on keeping the show in topnotch condition for the guests. After Eisner put Pressler in charge of Disneyland, maintenance was whittled down to keep profits and bonuses high. The result is visible in rides like Indy and Splash.

    Leave a comment:


  • Theme_Park_Insider
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    For the first three decades of Disneyland's history, the standard was to improve existing attractions. Jungle Cruise, the Mine Train thru Nature's Wonderland, Tomorrowland, Fantasyland -- from small improvements to complete re-do's, "plussing" existing attractions was the Company's policy. Since the advent of Eisner, and particularly since Iger, that policy has been reversed. Every dollar that isn't spent on keeping attractions up to their original show quality is a dollar that's added to the Company's profits column -- and to Iger's annual bonus.
    This is a generalization.

    In reality, the attractions are actually constantly plussed and improved - often in ways that you can't see.

    Think about it this way: After 30-40 years and more of operating, the majority of an attraction's sustainment budget will shift into a ride obsolescence program to keep the attraction (a) reliable, (b) regulatory compliant, and (c) modernized where possible. That means more of a focus on mechanics, electrical, structure, and more, which gets expensive.

    And I'll tell you from personal experience, keeping a legacy attraction running reliably at Disneyland 18 hours a day is expensive. Many parts need to be custom fabricated, and wherever possible, upgraded with off the shelf components. But for the most part, they are the same design from decades ago, and require massive labor to keep up, that's all behind the scenes.

    Show upgrades are also expensive, but don't have as many regulatory requirements, and don't generally affect the ride reliability. So they aren't as frequent. But they do happen too, pretty often. Those kinds of projects are under Imagineering's purview, and their project planning.

    So then we consider how the Company's ride portfolio exploded after the construction of WDW, then the global parks. That's a lot of projects to undertake for a lot of assets.

    From my perspective, I can't believe they are able to do as much as they do with the amount of work that exists.

    It's not all "padding Company profits" and going to Iger's "bonus." That's not how budgets and projects work, that's not how any of this works.
    Last edited by Theme_Park_Insider; 01-31-2020, 01:37 PM.

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