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  • News Disneyland Being sued for making disabled guests wait too long.

    https://ktla.com/news/california/dis...ChhCC8ZpdgDON8

    Trying to keep my personal feelings to myself on this one.

  • #2
    Oh lord not again. Didn't this already happen when DAS got revamped in, like, 2015?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by denyuntilcaught View Post
      Oh lord not again. Didn't this already happen when DAS got revamped in, like, 2015?
      Same lawsuits refiled apparently after a higher court judge kicked it back down to a lower court. More detials on the LAtimes article. https://www.latimes.com/business/sto...-in-two-states

      Comment


      • #4
        Not sure this is grounds for damages.

        The California lawsuit described a 13-year-old boy from Norwalk as T.P. who loves Disneyland and has been diagnosed with autism, severe obsessive compulsive disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and having anxiety attacks. T.P. experiences a meltdown if he can’t go on his favorite rides in a particular order, according to the lawsuit.
        Matt's 40th Birthday Disneyland Trip. Club 33, Napa Rose, and Adventureland Suite!!! ~~|~~ Katherine's 11th Birthday Dapper Day trip with Club 33 ~~|~~ Matt's Review of the Art of the Craft Tour at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel ~~|~~ My Spring, 2017 Dapper Day Trip Report ~~|~~ My Fall, 2016 Dapper Day and Club33 Trip Report ~~|~~ My Summer, 2016 Walt's LA tour with Bob Gurr and Marty Skylar ~~|~~ My Summer, 2016 Family Firsts Trip Report ~~|~~ Matt's September, 2015 Solo after the Safari Sunrise Trip Report ~~|~~ World Famous Jungle Cruise Safari Sunrise Premium Experience Trip Report ~~|~~ My February, 2015 Dapper Day Trip Report ~~|~~ My October, 2014 Family Vacation with Mickey's Halloween Party ~~|~~ My September, 2014 Dapper Day Trip Report ~~|~~ My August, 2014 Solo Trip Report - 1901/C33 Jazz Club ~~|~~ My June, 2014 Solo Trip Report ~~|~~ My February, 2014 Dapper Day Trip Report ~~|~~ My Epic May, 2013 Trip Report ~~|~~ My October, 2011 Trip Report ~~|~~ My October, 2010 Trip Report

        Comment


        • #5
          It should be noted that this the 2nd lawsuit over DAS, in regards to Autism. The 1st lawsuit was made over WDW, not too long ago.

          Comment


          • #6
            I find the American fascination with lawsuits really intriguing, it has to be the most litigious nation in the world. In Canada these lawsuits are almost thrown out, Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms deems that there must be REASONABLE attempts to accommodate people's needs that fit within the law. While I am sure that these families may feel that having their exact needs catered to is reasonable, and in some cases my heart goes out to them as I do not have a child with these particular issues; the fact that these guests are able to experience the park in a similar fashion to a regular paying guest would mean that these cases would almost certainly not even be heard up here.

            Quite frankly the demand to return to the old program would be akin to blind guests demanding that they can arrive at a movie theatre for any showing and be provided with an employee to sit next to them describing the action on screen, rather than going to specific screenings for described video is offered.

            Comment


            • #7
              I tend to side with the disabled on most of these issues and my heart goes out to them as it is often a very tough life to have to live. I am ok with the ride interruptions and percentage of my day taken up by delays for those that need assistance to load and unload rides or having to wait for those on devices to clear the way for those of us walking etc. Sometimes though I feel people try and take things a little too far and get a lil selfish. When they do this it ruins things for those that need fair consideration. I have relatives with and have had disabilities at times myself and it is never fun and I feel for those that cannot simply enjoy life as most get to. However I feel when a single individual thinks the masses should be forced to adjust their lives to cater to said individuals personal need it is taking things a bit too far. I think Disneyland goes quite a long ways to accommodate people with special needs and the current system they have I feel is very fair. A disability should not prevent you from enjoying the parks in a similar fashion to others but it also should not grant you a special privilege of enjoying the parks beyond what average guests gets to experience.

              I use to have agoraphobia (I still have mild anxiety) which meant I had a really hard time in crowds where I would suddenly feel as if I was suffocating and I would start sweating profusly. It was part of the reason I avoided the parks, concerts, movie theaters you name it for over a decade. Some of these lawsuits make me wonder if I had found a a good enough lawyer and found others with the same condition would I have been able to sue to force Disneyland to keep the parks below a certain crowd level?

              Comment


              • #8
                This should and hopefully will get thrown out. Disney should absolutely make reasonable accommodations for anyone with special needs to be able to enjoy the parks like anyone else. The problem with this case is that this child wants to experience the park in their own specific way and Disney can’t do that for anyone because they can’t do that for everyone. If they were to get a judgment against them forcing them to accommodate this one person then it would set a precedent for anyone to sue Disney to experience the park how they want. Starcade above mentioned agoraphobia, what if somebody that had agoraphobia sued Disney to have every land they entered have no crowd? That’s an impossible thing to make happen but it would seem reasonable to some people who can’t be in crowds.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                  I tend to side with the disabled on most of these issues and my heart goes out to them as it is often a very tough life to have to live. I am ok with the ride interruptions and percentage of my day taken up by delays for those that need assistance to load and unload rides or having to wait for those on devices to clear the way for those of us walking etc. Sometimes though I feel people try and take things a little too far and get a lil selfish. When they do this it ruins things for those that need fair consideration. I have relatives with and have had disabilities at times myself and it is never fun and I feel for those that cannot simply enjoy life as most get to. However I feel when a single individual thinks the masses should be forced to adjust their lives to cater to said individuals personal need it is taking things a bit too far. I think Disneyland goes quite a long ways to accommodate people with special needs and the current system they have I feel is very fair. A disability should not prevent you from enjoying the parks in a similar fashion to others but it also should not grant you a special privilege of enjoying the parks beyond what average guests gets to experience.

                  I use to have agoraphobia (I still have mild anxiety) which meant I had a really hard time in crowds where I would suddenly feel as if I was suffocating and I would start sweating profusly. It was part of the reason I avoided the parks, concerts, movie theaters you name it for over a decade. Some of these lawsuits make me wonder if I had found a a good enough lawyer and found others with the same condition would I have been able to sue to force Disneyland to keep the parks below a certain crowd level?
                  Kudos on a truly eloquent post.
                  "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                  it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                  together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                  designed to appeal to everyone."

                  - Walt Disney

                  "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                  - Michael Eisner

                  "It's very symbiotic."
                  - Bob Chapek

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post
                    I find the American fascination with lawsuits really intriguing, it has to be the most litigious nation in the world. In Canada these lawsuits are almost thrown out, Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms deems that there must be REASONABLE attempts to accommodate people's needs that fit within the law.
                    That is why we IMO need a looser pays system in the US. US law call for "reasonable accommodations" under the ADA and there is zero repercussions or liability to file a lawsuit to demand unreasonable accommodations.

                    Don't know what their true MO is, but having been involve in quote a few lawsuits regarding public events 9 times out of 10 the insurance companies just settle vs deal with the cost of atrial which makes matters worse.

                    Luckily Disney rightfully vigorously defends hard against any lawsuits to prevent from being an easy target...but that is at cost to all of us.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Like all here I have a great deal of sympathy for those with these issues and the families who work so hard to make a good life for them

                      but...

                      I have become a bit tired of being expected to accommodate the special needs individual whose behavior in crowds, in line, in shows... disrupts enjoyment of the event for everyone else

                      a child can have a marvelous life without ever seeing Disneyland
                      if Disneyland is too stressful, and I have the same thought about Disneyland for those too open to their environment like many special needs individual and pets... too loud, too crowded...

                      that individual might enjoy a stroll in a botanic garden more

                      I can promise the pet owners that the noise heat and crowds at Disneyland would not be the choice of their dog... who does not care about Belle or Ariel...

                      I've seen a few I know driven out of business by law suits, failed but expensive for not accommodating

                      seating for over 500 lbs
                      various anxiety conditions of not wanting people standing near them, certain colors, someone who speaks their language

                      the exploitation of businesses by accommodation and discomforting other customers.... should not be encouraged

                      I might as well sue for wasting my remaining years standing in line... as a senior ;-)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GwenRowan View Post

                        I might as well sue for wasting my remaining years standing in line... as a senior ;-)
                        and without a senior discount too !

                        Soaring like an EAGLE !

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post
                          I find the American fascination with lawsuits really intriguing, it has to be the most litigious nation in the world. In Canada these lawsuits are almost thrown out, Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms deems that there must be REASONABLE attempts to accommodate people's needs that fit within the law. While I am sure that these families may feel that having their exact needs catered to is reasonable, and in some cases my heart goes out to them as I do not have a child with these particular issues; the fact that these guests are able to experience the park in a similar fashion to a regular paying guest would mean that these cases would almost certainly not even be heard up here.

                          Quite frankly the demand to return to the old program would be akin to blind guests demanding that they can arrive at a movie theatre for any showing and be provided with an employee to sit next to them describing the action on screen, rather than going to specific screenings for described video is offered.
                          you did not do your research ;-)...

                          ""When you think about the 10 most litigious countries in the world, many people would immediately think of the United States of America (US). However, the Land of the Free only comes in at number 5. Germany is the top nation in the world for litigious behaviour. Sweden comes in at number 2, Israel is at number 3, and Austria number 4. The field is rounded out in this order: The United Kingdom (UK) at number 6; Denmark at number 7; Hungary number 8; Portugal at number 9; and France at number 10.


                          ""Here is a list of the top 5 most litigious countries by capita: 1. Germany: 123.2/1,000 2. Sweden: 111.2/1,000 3. Israel: 96.8/1,000 4.


                          it does seem though that the USA may reward more money on the average....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                            I tend to side with the disabled on most of these issues and my heart goes out to them as it is often a very tough life to have to live. I am ok with the ride interruptions and percentage of my day taken up by delays for those that need assistance to load and unload rides or having to wait for those on devices to clear the way for those of us walking etc. Sometimes though I feel people try and take things a little too far and get a lil selfish. When they do this it ruins things for those that need fair consideration. I have relatives with and have had disabilities at times myself and it is never fun and I feel for those that cannot simply enjoy life as most get to. However I feel when a single individual thinks the masses should be forced to adjust their lives to cater to said individuals personal need it is taking things a bit too far. I think Disneyland goes quite a long ways to accommodate people with special needs and the current system they have I feel is very fair. A disability should not prevent you from enjoying the parks in a similar fashion to others but it also should not grant you a special privilege of enjoying the parks beyond what average guests gets to experience.

                            I use to have agoraphobia (I still have mild anxiety) which meant I had a really hard time in crowds where I would suddenly feel as if I was suffocating and I would start sweating profusly. It was part of the reason I avoided the parks, concerts, movie theaters you name it for over a decade. Some of these lawsuits make me wonder if I had found a a good enough lawyer and found others with the same condition would I have been able to sue to force Disneyland to keep the parks below a certain crowd level?
                            Excellent post and I would have to say I agree.

                            As much as Disney has been the raspberry seed in my wisdom tooth lately, I would have to say I have to take their side on this – if nothing more as to not to set precedent.

                            Disney is in a no-win situation here. I too agree that there needs to be equal access and they should make all reasonable attempts to accommodate. However, as you state, that should not mean preferential treatment. Because they are legally mandated by the Government to follow ADA rules, they do their best with the business they're in. Could it be better? Sure, I suppose. But there are some people who just thrive on vexatious grievances.

                            I do know, and have personal knowledge, of people who abuse the system in order to take advantage of it. Because Disney cannot question someone's "legitimate" disability, they must accommodate.

                            This will never change so as long as the standards for disabilities remains the same. At least it's nice to see that the DOT proposes to let airlines limit service animals to trained dogs and treat "Emotional Support" animals as pets. IMO this has spiraled way out of control and a line has to be drawn. (Side note: I have always said that the ADA has become a little too intrusive and needs a thorough review of it's standards and laws).

                            Where I do hold Disney accountable (RotR) is this whole charade of a 100% operational attraction, issuance of vapor-"Boarding Groups", and marketing it as an Attraction available to all Guests – clearly that is not the case when Boarding Groups fill up within minutes.
                            Last edited by Laugh-O-Grams; 02-28-2020, 01:21 PM.
                            We need another Walt...and fast!

                            "It's always more difficult to recover than it is to do the right thing at the beginning" - Tony Baxter,
                            The Imagineering Story, Episode 4 "Hit or Miss"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Spongeocto4 View Post
                              It should be noted that this the 2nd lawsuit over DAS, in regards to Autism. The 1st lawsuit was made over WDW, not too long ago.
                              I found this story about a WDW lawsuit that partially ended last week linked on another site: https://www.tampabay.com/arts-entert...ayed-decision/

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                The purpose of the ADA was to make access equal to, but not better than, access for a non-disabled individual. The DAS does exactly that. In fact, in cases of non-FP rides, it does a better job. The DAS allows the disabled individual to sit, wander, ride another ride during their wait time, whilst the rest of us stand in line. It also, to an extent, allows the person to have two FPs (one 'regular' and one 'wait time'). I've used the DAS program on one occasion and it certainly made my day much easier. The old program (funny, I can't remember the acronym!) was basically a 'front of the line pass'.

                                So, IMO the real basis of the lawsuit isn't that the disabled person is not being treated equally, it's that they have lost a 'privilege'. And that seems to be the real issue. Some of the plaintiffs in the various suits seem to feel that they/their child should have special privilege as compensation for being disabled, rather than simply being treated as equally as possible.
                                "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Stormy View Post
                                  The purpose of the ADA was to make access equal to, but not better than, access for a non-disabled individual. The DAS does exactly that. In fact, in cases of non-FP rides, it does a better job. The DAS allows the disabled individual to sit, wander, ride another ride during their wait time, whilst the rest of us stand in line. It also, to an extent, allows the person to have two FPs (one 'regular' and one 'wait time'). I've used the DAS program on one occasion and it certainly made my day much easier. The old program (funny, I can't remember the acronym!) was basically a 'front of the line pass'.

                                  So, IMO the real basis of the lawsuit isn't that the disabled person is not being treated equally, it's that they have lost a 'privilege'. And that seems to be the real issue. Some of the plaintiffs in the various suits seem to feel that they/their child should have special privilege as compensation for being disabled, rather than simply being treated as equally as possible.
                                  I believe the acronym you're looking for is GAC (Guest Assistance Card), at least that's what I remember them being called while working at Pooh. Oddly enough there would be times where Guests would demand to be able to use the card to go through the exit instead of using the regular queue (which had no wait) even after I explained they would have a shorter wait if they'd simply walk up and board instead of walking through the exit, which may or may not have had an EVC or other disabilities Guest waiting there or having to deal with the confusion of which load/unload CM to talk to/coordinate with to bring them into a row once all vehicles had reached a certain point in the station.
                                  "I take no side. I am beyond your worrying and wars. I am unseen. Unknowable. Like a rock in the river."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I have schizophrenia and was (2 years ago) poisoned with a neurotoxin so used a wheel chair until a couple months ago. I went to Disneyland several times during my time in the chair.

                                    Disney bends over backwards to enable people with disabilities. Never once did I feel disparaged, and honestly even with the DAS change disabled people still get on the ride before average riders. I honestly can’t see how they could do much better. The old days of having a disabled person get you to the front of the line should be over.

                                    I do see a need that Disney isn’t accommodating, but I really can’t see how they could is quiet rooms near rides for people who have issues with crowds. I have a problem with it myself which is why I have a service dog. I think those quiet rooms would be over run, because frankly who doesn’t want a quiet moment now and again in the park.

                                    Disney has some of the best training I’ve seen in regards to people who use mobility aids. I never had an employee look anywhere at me than my face where honestly a lot of others would stare at my chair.

                                    Granted I’ve never been to the park with someone who has autism. But I do get major panic attacks and depersonalize (withdrawing from consciousness).

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Blurr View Post

                                      I believe the acronym you're looking for is GAC (Guest Assistance Card)
                                      That's the one!








                                      Originally posted by exLuna View Post

                                      I do see a need that Disney isn’t accommodating, but I really can’t see how they could is quiet rooms near rides for people who have issues with crowds. I have a problem with it myself which is why I have a service dog. I think those quiet rooms would be over run, because frankly who doesn’t want a quiet moment now and again in the park.

                                      I agree, that would be an excellent idea! And you're right, chances are the 'quiet room' would end up being 'not so quiet'. I was at DL with someone who has PTSD and at times the crowds made him very tense and nervous. We could usually find a 'quieter' place to stand for him to 'steady himself', but a quiet room would have been really nice.

                                      "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Stormy View Post
                                        The purpose of the ADA was to make access equal to, but not better than, access for a non-disabled individual. The DAS does exactly that. In fact, in cases of non-FP rides, it does a better job. The DAS allows the disabled individual to sit, wander, ride another ride during their wait time, whilst the rest of us stand in line. It also, to an extent, allows the person to have two FPs (one 'regular' and one 'wait time'). I've used the DAS program on one occasion and it certainly made my day much easier. The old program (funny, I can't remember the acronym!) was basically a 'front of the line pass'.

                                        So, IMO the real basis of the lawsuit isn't that the disabled person is not being treated equally, it's that they have lost a 'privilege'. And that seems to be the real issue. Some of the plaintiffs in the various suits seem to feel that they/their child should have special privilege as compensation for being disabled, rather than simply being treated as equally as possible.
                                        This right here was 100% spot on!! My family uses the DAS and it works great for my son who has Autism. Yes, there are times he is overwhelmed with the crowds or the noise but we as parents know how to handle these situations and it is our job to do so, not Disney's!
                                        Props to Poisonedapples for the cool sig!

                                        Comment

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