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  • [Idea] Should MaxPass be free going foreward?

    Given that Disney is planning to implement virtual queues for many rides, I cannot help but wonder how and why they intend to charge for MaxPass as a separate product offering?

    Wouldn't it make sense to just let everyone plan and reserve their day through the app on their own cellphone, rather than require some guests to queue up at FastPass kiosks, and touch the screens/machines with their unprotected fingers?

    In rapid succession, literally thousands of guests might have touched that very same screen. That seems like an unnecessary additional risk given that most people have their own cellphone screen that nobody else but them will touch. So, Disney could help keep their guests safer just by making MaxPass free for everyone in the park?

    Can anyone think of a counter example where it would actually be safer for guests if Disney continued to charge for MaxPass?
    Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

  • #2
    Only thing I could think of would be the challenge to Disney's wallet. Maxpass is big money now and suddenly making it free would be another dent in the mouse's revenue at a difficult time.

    The virtual queue is an interesting idea, but I wonder if it is just a PR move rather than anything that will do any good. Sure the Pirates and Indian Jones lines may be smaller, but smaller rides in Fantasy land will surely continue to be regular use;and all of these people usually standing in lines will be pushed out into already overcrowded walkways. I know it would be a lot of work, but I wonder if someone could possibly decipher the amount of space that all of the usually filled queues in Disneyland make up, I am sure it would be acres, acres that will be empty with people in the walkways instead.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post
      Only thing I could think of would be the challenge to Disney's wallet. Maxpass is big money now and suddenly making it free would be another dent in the mouse's revenue at a difficult time.

      The virtual queue is an interesting idea, but I wonder if it is just a PR move rather than anything that will do any good. Sure the Pirates and Indian Jones lines may be smaller, but smaller rides in Fantasy land will surely continue to be regular use;and all of these people usually standing in lines will be pushed out into already overcrowded walkways. I know it would be a lot of work, but I wonder if someone could possibly decipher the amount of space that all of the usually filled queues in Disneyland make up, I am sure it would be acres, acres that will be empty with people in the walkways instead.
      Well, how about letting people wander around in Downtown Disney, as well? And more, better shops, dining and etc? Spread people out rather than packing them in!

      Do people really want to be stuck in massive queues like in these for the foreseeable future?
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      Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by whiteness View Post

        Well, how about letting people wander around in Downtown Disney, as well? And more, better shops, dining and etc? Spread people out rather than packing them in!

        Do people really want to be stuck in massive queues like in these for the foreseeable future?
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        To go in a completely different direction with this - what if Disneyland reopened with the caveat that it is all virtual queues AND to begin they will only reopen to DL hotel guests with regular park tickets to bring down the attendance and reduce crowds? They would continue to extend the annual passports expiration, but they would not be able to be used until a much later date as part of a phased reopening?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ClownLoach View Post

          To go in a completely different direction with this - what if Disneyland reopened with the caveat that it is all virtual queues AND to begin they will only reopen to DL hotel guests with regular park tickets to bring down the attendance and reduce crowds? They would continue to extend the annual passports expiration, but they would not be able to be used until a much later date as part of a phased reopening?
          You would be dealing with a firestorm of hostility from people who have neighborhood hotels and flights still booked that would be unable to cancel because the state of emergency would surely be lifted. The number of guests at these other hotels combined far exceeds the number in DL hotels and having all of them already likely, mentally stressed, financially strained, and relieved that their trips may go ahead only to have news like this would be public relations suicide.

          I totally understand where you are coming from as it would reduce capacity, and man if you were one of those lucky hotel guests you would in a dreamland, but I honestly think the parks are going to remain largely closed until they can open again at near capacity and regular operation with only a few caveats, like parades, and WoC not running.

          With all of our armchair operational ideas, we do need to remember that there are probably hundreds of thousands of people that have hotels and flights booked for later this year, hoping that they can still go, and likely not be able to re-book or get refunds if states of emergency and some social distancing rules are removed at that point. Any re-opening needs to take all of them into account less those relationships be irreparably harmed, at a time when Disney, which is losing money in almost all facets of its business now, literally cannot lose those $$.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by whiteness View Post

            Well, how about letting people wander around in Downtown Disney, as well? And more, better shops, dining and etc? Spread people out rather than packing them in!

            Do people really want to be stuck in massive queues like in these for the foreseeable future?
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            Opening up DTD as another space is a really interesting idea, basically push the ticket kiosks back to the esplanade and have only people with a ticket enter, then you need your ticket to enter a specific park but can leave and keep all of those queues saved. Maybe make exceptions for Disney hotel guests, allowing them to enter DTD as well.

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            • #7
              Why do people keep hoping there will be solutions that exclude APs? If you hate Californians so much, why do you even want to come here? Do you go to Paris and expect for only select hotel guests to be able to visit the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre?
              "I wish they all could be California Bears!"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sun Bonnet View Post
                Why do people keep hoping there will be solutions that exclude APs? If you hate Californians so much, why do you even want to come here? Do you go to Paris and expect for only select hotel guests to be able to visit the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre?
                The reality is they need to be able to control the number of people coming in. There is no way they will just reopen the gates and be able to allow the usual daily attendance. And at the same time they are going to want to start with the most profitable guests - the hotel guests. Then gradually open up with the Good Neighbor hotel guests. But they definitely will need to reopen with a much lower cap on attendance, because the virtual queues mean more people in the walkways and common areas. At any given point in time more than half of the people in the park are in some kind of queue. So to have the same "crowded" conditions the park usually has - which is definitely too much with the need for social distancing - you are starting with a minimum 50% reduction in allowable daily attendance. The reality is that they would need to reduce even more to eliminate crowds due to virtual queues - more like an 80% reduction. On a daily basis 80% of Disneyland attendance is annual pass holders. So it's very easy to shut off access to that group since it's the biggest, get the parks into phased reopening with hotel guests, increased sanitizing of facilities, no lines, no gatherings like parades and fireworks, limited hours like 9am to 7pm.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ClownLoach View Post

                  The reality is they need to be able to control the number of people coming in. There is no way they will just reopen the gates and be able to allow the usual daily attendance. And at the same time they are going to want to start with the most profitable guests - the hotel guests. Then gradually open up with the Good Neighbor hotel guests. But they definitely will need to reopen with a much lower cap on attendance, because the virtual queues mean more people in the walkways and common areas. At any given point in time more than half of the people in the park are in some kind of queue. So to have the same "crowded" conditions the park usually has - which is definitely too much with the need for social distancing - you are starting with a minimum 50% reduction in allowable daily attendance. The reality is that they would need to reduce even more to eliminate crowds due to virtual queues - more like an 80% reduction. On a daily basis 80% of Disneyland attendance is annual pass holders. So it's very easy to shut off access to that group since it's the biggest, get the parks into phased reopening with hotel guests, increased sanitizing of facilities, no lines, no gatherings like parades and fireworks, limited hours like 9am to 7pm.
                  Sources have reported that the AP attendance is closer to 35-40% not 80%, which makes sense based on the sheer number of hotel spaces around the park and its reported average daily attendance. So cutting off that group is not necessarily cutting off the biggest chunk of daily guests.

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                  • #10
                    A lot of people with APs live out of state as well.
                    "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money." - ​Walt Disney

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                      Opening up DTD as another space is a really interesting idea, basically push the ticket kiosks back to the esplanade and have only people with a ticket enter, then you need your ticket to enter a specific park but can leave and keep all of those queues saved. Maybe make exceptions for Disney hotel guests, allowing them to enter DTD as well.
                      And, I hate to mention this, but if some space opens up across Harbor, then expand DTD.

                      And get creative. How about some nice, landscaped areas, low density with shared picnic grounds/beer gardens for local/Disney restaurants across Harbor?
                      Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by greenalfonzo View Post
                        A lot of people with APs live out of state as well.
                        Doesn't really change the ultimate number of APs at the gate, but yes some of those hotel rooms will be AP holders.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ClownLoach View Post

                          The reality is they need to be able to control the number of people coming in. There is no way they will just reopen the gates and be able to allow the usual daily attendance. And at the same time they are going to want to start with the most profitable guests - the hotel guests. Then gradually open up with the Good Neighbor hotel guests. But they definitely will need to reopen with a much lower cap on attendance, because the virtual queues mean more people in the walkways and common areas. At any given point in time more than half of the people in the park are in some kind of queue. So to have the same "crowded" conditions the park usually has - which is definitely too much with the need for social distancing - you are starting with a minimum 50% reduction in allowable daily attendance. The reality is that they would need to reduce even more to eliminate crowds due to virtual queues - more like an 80% reduction. On a daily basis 80% of Disneyland attendance is annual pass holders. So it's very easy to shut off access to that group since it's the biggest, get the parks into phased reopening with hotel guests, increased sanitizing of facilities, no lines, no gatherings like parades and fireworks, limited hours like 9am to 7pm.
                          I agree with you that they will need to reduce attendance. I posted that in another thread and everyone disagreed with me, saying that Disney won't reopen without the same attendance level. But let's say you and I are correct and they need to reduce crowds. I still don't think eliminating AP attendance is a smart move. APs keep the park open during tough times. You want to give several months worth of Blackout dates to Signature and Sig Plus Passholders? Do you really think Disney wants to piss that group off? That's their bread and butter.

                          On that note, I also disagree that hotel guests are the most profitable. Many APs go weekly or more, eat meals in the park and at Downtown Disney every trip, and buy merchandise like crazy. The idea that AP holders "don't pay full price" as is often stated here is just wrong. APs pay in other ways.
                          "I wish they all could be California Bears!"

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                          • #14
                            I really believe that this virtual queue system is the future for all theme parks. It would alleviate overcrowding in queues, which is always an issue with modern fire codes. It would also allow people to spend less time waiting in line and more time buying souvenirs, food, etc.
                            I feel like Disney would have headed there in a decade or so once they got all the logistics worked out, but recent events may force their hand into just getting rid of queues altogether.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Zanadros View Post
                              I really believe that this virtual queue system is the future for all theme parks. It would alleviate overcrowding in queues, which is always an issue with modern fire codes. It would also allow people to spend less time waiting in line and more time buying souvenirs, food, etc.
                              I feel like Disney would have headed there in a decade or so once they got all the logistics worked out, but recent events may force their hand into just getting rid of queues altogether.
                              I think you are probably very correct, meaning a radical change in how rides and spaces are constructed. There would certainly always need to be room for some kind of a line, as boarding groups returned, but gone are the days of lengthy lengthy Indian Jones like switchbacks. It could open up space for more storytelling for sure. Think loading into Haunted Mansion immediately through the front door and into the elevator, or even smaller rides like Buzz, no outdoor switchback, instead entering into Buzz talking to you right away. Could be very interesting, but also means a massive change to layouts of parks, as thousands standing in lines will be outside wandering around in walkways. As it's currently built Disneyland proper could not handle that.

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                              • #16
                                Yeah as hope that they can make some improvements a bit. As it is with the changing of the times there.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by whiteness View Post

                                  Well, how about letting people wander around in Downtown Disney, as well? And more, better shops, dining and etc? Spread people out rather than packing them in!

                                  Do people really want to be stuck in massive queues like in these for the foreseeable future?
                                  Click image for larger version

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                                  I'm confused. Aren't people already allowed to wander around DTD? If I'm waiting in a virtual queue for all my rides, why would I constantly be walking back and forth between rides and DTD? If I had to do that, I would never go back to DL again.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by hbdad View Post

                                    I'm confused. Aren't people already allowed to wander around DTD? If I'm waiting in a virtual queue for all my rides, why would I constantly be walking back and forth between rides and DTD? If I had to do that, I would never go back to DL again.
                                    Nobody would force you to visit DTD, but Disney should try to make it more appealing for people so more people do.

                                    Imagine if they had something like a "people mover" but with multiple stops along the way, connecting Mickey and Friends and the Esplanade? Not only would it make visiting DTD more attractive, but also provide an alternative to the trams. And how about an informational screen in the cars so you'd know where to get off depending on what you wanted to buy/eat? You could run the track at 2nd story level, perhaps, down both sides of DTD in a circle.
                                    Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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                                    • #19
                                      Strategies to reduce or eliminate lines and parade crowds may be too little too late for the theme park industry. I suspect that for a long time after the 2020 Covid-19 crisis has passed its peak, people will put the idea of being crowded into ride vehicles with a bunch of strangers near the top of the list of risky (if not foolhardy) behaviors.
                                      Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 03-30-2020, 03:07 PM.
                                      "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                      it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                      together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                      designed to appeal to everyone."

                                      - Walt Disney

                                      "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                      - Michael Eisner

                                      "It's very symbiotic."
                                      - Bob Chapek

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