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Avengers Attraction -Redesign Possible? -UNFORTUNATE REALITY?

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  • Avengers Attraction -Redesign Possible? -UNFORTUNATE REALITY?

    Now with the parks taking a huge hit, due to Coronavirus, will we start seeing DCA 1.0 style of building things. We hear of these cool things, (2001-WestCOT, 2019-Avengers attraction) being planned and some later cut and replaced with other cheaper things. So, WestCOT replaced with DCA 1.0, and, (Avengers attraction replaced with a Reskinned monsters INC), Pym Test kitchen cool innovations no longer being planned? I hope not! If so, are we at round 4 of this attraction facing a redesign?

    PLEASE BUILD THE AVENGERS RIDE

    Or is there silver lining: Avengers ride cut, superstar limo makes a comeback, (themed to TonySTARK in L.A.) people hate it, Disney loses hope with I.P. based attractions and realizes it's NOT the franchise that brings people in, but rather the EFFORT put into the attraction!!??
    Last edited by rld275501; 04-02-2020, 05:41 PM.
    An Aspiring Walt Disney Imagineer.

  • #2
    I go to school with someone who used to work as an accountant for Disney. During an executive Q&A, he posed a question to Bob Chapek asking "If you're cutting costs as a way to save money when the economy is doing well, what practices will you undertake during an economic downturn?" Not only did Chapek ignore the question (it was submitted via paper), but this accountant had firsthand knowledge of the cost-cutting being undertaken.

    There are only so many things left to cut, and I suspect we'll see a Disneyland that is just a shell of itself in the coming months with entertainment canceled and capacity limited. There's not much more left to cut beyond that. If he goes whole hog and cuts the only IP that truly exceeded expectations, then he's setting Disney up for the ultimate long-term failure and his tenure will be short-lived.

    As much hope as I have for Disney losing faith in IP via TonyStark Limo, they never quite seem to learn their lesson with the parks. Instead we get a pendulum of investment that swings back and forth depending on who's in power and what they're thinking.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post
      There are only so many things left to cut, and I suspect we'll see a Disneyland that is just a shell of itself in the coming months with entertainment canceled and capacity limited. There's not much more left to cut beyond that. If he goes whole hog and cuts the only IP that truly exceeded expectations, then he's setting Disney up for the ultimate long-term failure and his tenure will be short-lived.
      Or...

      He ends up a hero to Wall Street by selling Disney's domestic Parks to an offshore company like OLC. It's not outside the realm of possibility.

      "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
      it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
      together with every variety of recreation and fun,
      designed to appeal to everyone."

      - Walt Disney

      "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
      - Michael Eisner

      "It's very symbiotic."
      - Bob Chapek

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post
        There are only so many things left to cut, and I suspect we'll see a Disneyland that is just a shell of itself in the coming months with entertainment canceled and capacity limited. There's not much more left to cut beyond that. If he goes whole hog and cuts the only IP that truly exceeded expectations, then he's setting Disney up for the ultimate long-term failure and his tenure will be short-lived.
        As its' been referenced on this board, Chapek's fingerprints have been all over the
        long-gestating Avengers Ride. With him allegedly turning down the proposal twice. With the way things are going, this may break Haunted Mansion's record for longest delayed ride. And that took 8 years to build.

        Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

        Or...

        He ends up a hero to Wall Street by selling Disney's domestic Parks to an offshore company like OLC. It's not outside the realm of possibility.
        If the International Parks were sold off(not counting TDR) no one in the public except Forbes, would bat an eye.

        If Disneyland or WDW were attempted to be sold off, things would go nuts for the company, considering how sacred they are considered. Add a public revolt on top of that, and that decision would be a career suicide move for Chapek to make.
        Last edited by Spongeocto4; 04-02-2020, 08:58 PM. Reason: grammar

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Spongeocto4 View Post
          If Disneyland or WDW were attempted to be sold off, things would go nuts for the company, considering how sacred they are considered. Add a public revolt on top of that, and that decision would be a career suicide move for Chapek to make.
          The reality is that Disney Corp isn't "that Disney" anymore. It hasn't been for decades. The domestic parks being "sacred" is an illusion. Outside of us fans, there certainly would be no public revolt, especially if the sale were to a Disney-friendly company like OLC. Selling the domestic parks, cruise lines and hotels would be a home run for Disney if it financially protected the Company during a major economic recession. As with Tokyo Disneyland, Disney would profit from licensing. And the Disney execs who successfully orchestrated it would be lauded as heroes by Wall Street.
          "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
          it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
          together with every variety of recreation and fun,
          designed to appeal to everyone."

          - Walt Disney

          "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
          - Michael Eisner

          "It's very symbiotic."
          - Bob Chapek

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

            The reality is that Disney Corp isn't "that Disney" anymore. It hasn't been for decades. The domestic parks being "sacred" is an illusion. Outside of us fans, there certainly would be no public revolt, especially if the sale were to a Disney-friendly company like OLC. Selling the domestic parks, cruise lines and hotels would be a home run for Disney if it financially protected the Company during a major economic recession. As with Tokyo Disneyland, Disney would profit from licensing. And the Disney execs who successfully orchestrated it would be lauded as heroes by Wall Street.
            I AGREE.....
            IMO Disney has been for many years, taken over
            and your right
            Disney Corp isn't "that Disney" anymore!
            Last edited by Eagleman; 04-02-2020, 10:08 PM.
            Soaring like an EAGLE !

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post
              I go to school with someone who used to work as an accountant for Disney. During an executive Q&A, he posed a question to Bob Chapek asking "If you're cutting costs as a way to save money when the economy is doing well, what practices will you undertake during an economic downturn?" Not only did Chapek ignore the question (it was submitted via paper), but this accountant had firsthand knowledge of the cost-cutting being undertaken.

              There are only so many things left to cut, and I suspect we'll see a Disneyland that is just a shell of itself in the coming months with entertainment canceled and capacity limited. There's not much more left to cut beyond that. If he goes whole hog and cuts the only IP that truly exceeded expectations, then he's setting Disney up for the ultimate long-term failure and his tenure will be short-lived.

              As much hope as I have for Disney losing faith in IP via TonyStark Limo, they never quite seem to learn their lesson with the parks. Instead we get a pendulum of investment that swings back and forth depending on who's in power and what they're thinking.
              I can see some cuts to this extent, especially in future development such as the Avengers ride and Land. But they would have to be very delicate in what they cut on the day to day basis. You can only hack so much until you cut into the bone and the structure collapses.

              People vacationing or buying APs to Disney are going to be way down, this is worse than the 2008 recession. There is an expectation that guests hold. Cut a few ride vehicles an hour to save on CM staffing, people won’t notice. Start cutting parades, WoC and fireworks, people will definitely notice. That family that sc together some cash to go will tell their friends the experience was crap and not to bother, and that family won’t bother as well.

              It will be an unprecedented balancing act, but Chapek cutting too deep will blow up in their face, we are approaching levels of the Great Depression here...you think people would be jumping at the chance to take a premium vacation during that era? You need to give people value; also don’t forget Iger creeps in the wings. He definitely left so abruptly when he saw this storm coming and his legacy would only be further improved if he swept in and ousted Chapek as the Scrooge that ruined Disney parks when families just wanted to escape during hard times.

              Comment


              • #8
                I've maintained for a while that we were never going to get the Avengers E-Ticket or Full Epcot Revamp as promised. Seeing the way Galaxy's Edge was gutted and watching the way Pixar Pier & Toy Story Land were agonizingly revealed & slapped together, respectively, gave me no hope that a heavily imagineered, low capacity ride dogeared for a "Phase 2" would ever arrive- especially when the new land is front loaded with restaurants, retail, meet and greets, and an easier ride. I thought it'd be from the long forecasted recession coming to fruition and being the reason, but now with COVID and a likely depression happening they have every reason to completely cut-bait on delivering anything in concept art and merely finishing what's in the works in a very slapdash Tomorrowland '95/'99 style.

                I shudder to think what awful, cheap, and pathetic quick fix is going to be foisted onto Epcot and have come to the conclusion that I'll be well into my 50s before that poor park gets some semblance of real love.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                  I can see some cuts to this extent, especially in future development such as the Avengers ride and Land. But they would have to be very delicate in what they cut on the day to day basis. You can only hack so much until you cut into the bone and the structure collapses.
                  In all honesty, I'm not sure of the general direction they will go with the ride (assuming it doesn't get shelved). Will they make and sell it subpar for the low risk? Will they go the risky route and create another masterpiece that breaks down after 5 minutes AND has a low RPH? Or are we all getting worked up over nothing?

                  Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                  The reality is that Disney Corp isn't "that Disney" anymore. It hasn't been for decades. The domestic parks being "sacred" is an illusion. Outside of us fans, there certainly would be no public revolt, especially if the sale were to a Disney-friendly company like OLC. Selling the domestic parks, cruise lines and hotels would be a home run for Disney if it financially protected the Company during a major economic recession. As with Tokyo Disneyland, Disney would profit from licensing. And the Disney execs who successfully orchestrated it would be lauded as heroes by Wall Street.
                  But you are assuming that the OLC or a similar friendly business would buy Disneyland and WDW from Disney. However, there would be no guarantee that it would happen.

                  I happen to stumble on a report regarding Six Flags preventing a hostile takeover(and yes, Six Flags' problems are thankfully nowhere near as close to Disney's issues). This was in the midst of the report:
                  Six Flags now has a market capitalization under $1 billion. To put that value into perspective, if you were to build 1,000 million-dollar homes on the land now occupied by Six Flags Magic Mountain, that residential development would be worth more than the entire Six Flags chain right now.

                  Middle-class tract homes now routinely sell for a million bucks each in the Los Angeles area, so this scenario isn't too far a stretch. It also illustrates the big problem for theme park fans should someone launch a hostile takeover of Six Flags. A new owner might not be looking to get into the theme park business. It could just target Six Flags for the real estate value of its park properties, selling off or scrapping rides as it clears the land for redevelopment.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                    Or...

                    He ends up a hero to Wall Street by selling Disney's domestic Parks to an offshore company like OLC. It's not outside the realm of possibility.
                    If I'm being optimistic, I hope you're right. If I'm being pessimistic, I think it's more likely he get Disney's board to approve buying OLC before dismantling it.

                    Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                    I can see some cuts to this extent, especially in future development such as the Avengers ride and Land. But they would have to be very delicate in what they cut on the day to day basis. You can only hack so much until you cut into the bone and the structure collapses.

                    People vacationing or buying APs to Disney are going to be way down, this is worse than the 2008 recession. There is an expectation that guests hold. Cut a few ride vehicles an hour to save on CM staffing, people won’t notice. Start cutting parades, WoC and fireworks, people will definitely notice. That family that sc together some cash to go will tell their friends the experience was crap and not to bother, and that family won’t bother as well.

                    It will be an unprecedented balancing act, but Chapek cutting too deep will blow up in their face, we are approaching levels of the Great Depression here...you think people would be jumping at the chance to take a premium vacation during that era? You need to give people value; also don’t forget Iger creeps in the wings. He definitely left so abruptly when he saw this storm coming and his legacy would only be further improved if he swept in and ousted Chapek as the Scrooge that ruined Disney parks when families just wanted to escape during hard times.
                    I keep trying to remember that Walt built his studio during the Great Depression, and that people still needed to escape the problems of the day through good storytelling. Of course, even back then people got more than their money's worth from Walt. You're 100% right about providing value to guests. Will they do that from the outset to get people to return, or will they have to fail first (like they did with DCA). Disneyland will survive, but it's going to be interesting to see their path out of it.

                    It's a pretty ruthless move by Iger. If Chapek weathers the storm and pulls it off, Iger made the right call in his successor (or so Wall Street would say). If Chapek falls on his face (and he hasn't quite just yet in the CEO role), then they'll weed him out following this crisis and find someone better to fill the spot after they make him the fall guy. I'm sure Chapek knows this so he might not be ruling with an iron fist yet. He was the last CEO I expected to still be paying employees a month into the outbreak.

                    Originally posted by Spongeocto4 View Post

                    In all honesty, I'm not sure of the general direction they will go with the ride (assuming it doesn't get shelved). Will they make and sell it subpar for the low risk? Will they go the risky route and create another masterpiece that breaks down after 5 minutes AND has a low RPH? Or are we all getting worked up over nothing?

                    But you are assuming that the OLC or a similar friendly business would buy Disneyland and WDW from Disney. However, there would be no guarantee that it would happen.

                    I happen to stumble on a report regarding Six Flags preventing a hostile takeover(and yes, Six Flags' problems are thankfully nowhere near as close to Disney's issues). This was in the midst of the report:
                    That Six Flags article is so alarming I thought it was an April Fools joke. I actually bought a Six Flags "membership" in January (like an AP but with no end date as long as you have it a year). It was a great value, about $3 more than a 1-day ticket + parking so you get your money's worth after a second visit. They've been in constant communication and have given a free upgrade to a higher tier for the rest of the calendar year once the park reopens. They're already promising extra freebies and member events to get people to come to the park once the outbreak ends. If you ask me, they're saying all the right things and I am extremely satisfied.

                    I think Disney could take a similar route, especially if people don't show up in droves on the day the parks reopen. I will personally wait a bit longer to visit, but I know people who wanted to line up there the last day it was open because they didn't want to miss out. I can see people lining up on the first day it opens just to say they were there for social media's sake. If it drops off after that, we might see Soarin' Over California come back for an extended run (god-willing).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post

                      If Chapek weathers the storm and pulls it off, Iger made the right call in his successor (or so Wall Street would say). If Chapek falls on his face (and he hasn't quite just yet in the CEO role), then they'll weed him out.
                      It would seem like they set up Chapek for failure. Iger bails at the last second and lets Chapek take the brunt of coronavirus and the financial fallout. What a lousy time to switch CEOs. This has to be done on purpose.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zanadros View Post

                        It would seem like they set up Chapek for failure. Iger bails at the last second and lets Chapek take the brunt of coronavirus and the financial fallout. What a lousy time to switch CEOs. This has to be done on purpose.
                        We will never truly know, but man it sure looks like Iger saw the storm coming, kind of like certain Senators that sold off their millions of $$ worth of stocks, and said "I don't want any part of this, here Bob your up, good luck I'll wait right over here in case you fail" which really through no fault of Chapek's own he could very well. Interesting point WaltDisney'sAlec made about cuts. It's really easy to make cuts when things are going really well and the parks are bursting. But obvious cuts when the parks and hotels are quieter is not such a good look, they are actually harder to justify since they signal things are not going well and tend to push people away.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Face the fact......for years now ,there many poster been sharing
                          High over pay CEO Bob Iger all for himself.......Not for Disney .............and we saw it when he just Bail Out.
                          Soaring like an EAGLE !

                          Comment

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