[Chat] The New Tomorrowland That Almost Was: LucasPort

[Tomorrowland_1967]

Well, I got a huge shock and surprise last night!

I barely go to the main Micechat page for anything. I primarily come here to the forums. If there's anything worthy to mention from that page ... someone usually puts a "NEWS" post up to link back to the original column on the main page.

In this order ... we've heard of a lot of proposed plans for Tomorrowland for TOO long a period now:

- Star Wars type makeover
-Tron makeover (again)
-Marvel (Stark Expo)
- Tron type (first mention)
- some blue sky concepts from past D23 expos
- briefly mentioned "2009 plan" involving a Wall-E dark ride
- The full budgeted TL:98 version
- "Montana Tomorrowland" concepts
- And the most known plan - The "2055" plan which got started around 1989.

But there was one I mention from time to time. Planning started in the early 1980s. Is often overlooked, and pretty much any info online, non existent.

I struggled finding any new info about it. Till I went on the MC main page to utter amazement! So ... to the Micechat staff who put this together ........ my hat is off to you for bringing this rarely known Tomorrowland makeover plan to everyone's attention - that I personally dubbed for myself - New Tomorrowland:1984

Other known as .............

The New Tomorrowland That Almost Was: LucasPort
https://www.micechat.com/256463-disn...and-lucasport/




Finally, the details of this renovation plan are now finally known. THANK YOU MICECHAT, Thank you to those involved putting it together. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

[Tomorrowland_1967]

So ... what little I knew was this -

- I was fortunate to be acquainted with imagineer Bruce Gordon long ago. He told me ... the plan was to re-route the Monorail and Peoplemover tracks in new ways - Yup ... that puzzle piece now fits in where it belongs.

- The partnership with George Lucas was in place. And the big attraction was the Star Wars rollercoaster/dark ride hybrid adventure, which I heard of. But it was unclear to me where this was to go. A rollercoaster with dark ride scenes ... In ATIS' spot? ....... no way! Not enough room. So, it looks like this was to be nudged between the DLRR line and Harbor Blvd. So, now I wonder ... what was to happen to ATIS??

- The Nickel Tour Book that Dave Mumford and Bruce Gordon made gives one piece of info. Towards the back end of the book, there is a picture of a wide mural of a floating theme park. To go on Circle Vision's facade. I think that was for this early 80s TL redo. Plus the timing of America The Beautiful's replacement was in 1984 - "American Journeys". Also .... in 1982, Disney's first 3D film attraction "Magic Journeys" made it's debut in EPCOT. Disneyland debuted it in 1984. So ... I bet both these new attractions were part of the overall plan.

- One thing that is not adding up though. The glass shroud structure over the carousel theater. I remember another rendering of it. Done by Sam McKim. And it's in an issue of the Persistence of Vision magazine. Like a rough pencil sketch. (My copy is not handy.) I seem to remember it looking different ... and it was for a return engagement for Carousel of Progress. Not a "Lucas space port". CoP from my understanding was imagineering's next priority following Space Mountain in 1977. Which was the catalyst for TL's next makeover a few years after Space Mountain opened. It was a grass roots movement from what I understand. For CoP was yanked out of DL much too soon. It's run being a meager 6 years. Per GE's demands. Imagineering had a goal to get it back in California. For as wonderful America Sings was, it was clear it's out-of-place theming meant it would go sooner than later. It's intended use was to celebrate America's Bicentennial. Once that was over, the writing was on the wall for it's ultimate fate. So, those of you who have your issues of Peristence of Vision handy ... look for that sketch by Sam McKim .. and post it for us all to see.

[bigcatrik]

"During the adventure, there would be three points strategically placed along the track where guests could choose to either participate in a dog fight with the Empire (which would launch guests into a looping section of the track) or flee (which would result in entering a family-friendly section)."

Sounds like a bad idea -- anyone who wants a thrill ride would be disappointed by being forced by co-riders onto the "family-friendly section" and anyone who doesn't want a thrill ride would probably be livid to be sent through the "looping section."

[Tomorrowland_1967]

"During the adventure, there would be three points strategically placed along the track where guests could choose to either participate in a dog fight with the Empire (which would launch guests into a looping section of the track) or flee (which would result in entering a family-friendly section)."

Sounds like a bad idea -- anyone who wants a thrill ride would be disappointed by being forced by co-riders onto the "family-friendly section" and anyone who doesn't want a thrill ride would probably be livid to be sent through the "looping section."

On that same note - I don't like the idea that in Smugglers Run ... I may get caught with a group who want run controls one way ... while I don't even care to be bothered with any of it .. and just want to sit back and enjoy where the ride takes me.

[Tomorrowland_1967]

Now that after a 25 year wait on more details of the "Early 80s TL Remodel" ... I can now see what I think would have worked and what wouldn't have.

Taking one element at a time ... I want this post to cover - ROCKET JETS (or what is supposed to be a "Rocket Jets" type ride with seemingly new design) :

About Rocket Jets in a glass cage ......... claustrophobia, anyone?? Would take some strong air conditioners to keep that cool inside. Riding it would have messed up the view of TL, outside. Your views would have been impeded by reflection, and the metal frame work. Walt was all about "visual weenies" drawing you into a land. That glass cage would have taken that out as part of the "outdoor aesthetics" that are essential to any land. In cold, rainy, snowy conditions ... I can see the point. In sunny southern California .... NO! Not to mention lost kinetics.

The Astro Jets/Rocket Jets/Astro Orbitor have seen three locations now. With 2 other slightly different planned locations ... HOW ABOUT THIS IMAGINEERING .......... Why can't you just admit ... the absolute best and only place this ride belongs .. is it's 1967 perch! Center in the land, OUTSIDE, as a visual icon to draw guests in. Riding "3rd" story .. high above the land. It never got better than that. Next TL renovation .. it needs to go back there. Period. And one more thing ...... you guys actually messed up one very interesting audio element to the ride. Since the 1967 Rocket Jets mechanism was actually the 1956 Astro Jets mechanism ... those old air pistons that raised and lowered each vehicle made a noise that actually sounded like the blasting off of a rocket. An accidental sound that actually worked for the ride! Something you "corrected" for Astro Orbitor that runs quiet. Now it's more boring. The DL experience is one that treats all senses ...including the sense of sound! Refix what you broke, please.

[mondo]

Disney and More have addition pics and info.

https://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2...wars-land.html

[Starcade]

If I remember correctly this design had an option to have a show building over the area of the DLRR behind Autopia. This makes me wonder if there wouldn't be an option after them finally getting around to re-doing Autopia's layout could they put a second diorama building over the DLRR track and highlight the history of transportation or something else entertaining?

[Blu923]

Hey I’ve seen that mural you’re talking about!! If you dig enough online you’ll find it. As a matter of fact, I think I posted it on here years ago asking if anyone knew what it was for. I assumed it was for Tomorrowland 2055 since I had no idea there was anything predating the 2055 concept and not much between 2055-1998.

Thanks for the clarification!

[Disney_Dad]

The plans with the D&M article also have a show building behind the Grand Canyon Diorama, linked to the the Lucasport building by an elevated walkway. It shows that TL isn't quite as land locked as it appears to be and there may be an opportunity for expansion, provided they don't balk at the cost of moving the monorail beam further towards Harbor Blvd.

[mondo]

From the blueprint it looks like they could have a large showroom in the north east corner and still have the submarine. Overall I like how the blue prints show how much they could still expand. I really like the model as well. From all of the "new, new TL" proposals, including the one that was actually used, this is in the top two that I liked.

[TFN5459]

If I remember correctly this design had an option to have a show building over the area of the DLRR behind Autopia. This makes me wonder if there wouldn't be an option after them finally getting around to re-doing Autopia's layout could they put a second diorama building over the DLRR track and highlight the history of transportation or something else entertaining?

If I recall from the overhead plans, the DRR track was to "bulge" inwards to accomodate the new show building for LucasPort, making an S curve to the right after passing Small World and then making another S curve back to the left to meet with the Grand Canyon Diorama. There's not much detail on the overhead view but it looks like it would the railroad would continue on an outdoors route until it met what looks like a dual purpose Tomorrowland Station shared with the Monorail, then would duck inside to the Grand Canyon and continue on like it does today. I'm sure they would have looked into doing some new scenery that would have benefited both the Autopia and the Railroad had the plan come to fruition.

[Laugh-O-Grams]

Not sure what to think? I suppose it's a blessing and a curse. Luckily we didn't get it. Unluckily we got SWGE.

[Tomorrowland_1967]

Not sure what to think? I suppose it's a blessing and a curse. Luckily we didn't get it. Unluckily we got SWGE.

I have yet to finish my take on all individual items ... but I have to say as a response to you ....... there are elements I like and dislike. Overall ... I'm glad they didn't do it. The added Monorail and Peoplemover track ... LOVE. Rendering the carousel theater just a portal to get to other things with a few "exhibit" pieces to look at - Sounds like what it is now, and in the form of that joke - the former Innoventions. And moving Rocket Jets out of view ... and into a glass cage .. NO! That needs to be outdoors! The hybrid Star Wars dark ride/rollercoaster ... sounded intriguing. In 1984 ... I would have liked it. NOW ... with the company's obsession with IP, most specifically bombarding the DLR with Star Wars and Marvel ....... FORGET IT. I dream of an IP-Free Tomorrowland. At the very least corporate needs to compromise ... give us a few original rides with a few IPs mixed in.

[Laugh-O-Grams]

I have yet to finish my take on all individual items ... but I have to say as a response to you ....... there are elements I like and dislike. Overall ... I'm glad they didn't do it. The added Monorail and Peoplemover track ... LOVE. Rendering the carousel theater just a portal to get to other things with a few "exhibit" pieces to look at - Sounds like what it is now, and in the form of that joke - the former Innoventions. And moving Rocket Jets out of view ... and into a glass cage .. NO! That needs to be outdoors! The hybrid Star Wars dark ride/rollercoaster ... sounded intriguing. In 1984 ... I would have liked it. NOW ... with the company's obsession with IP, most specifically bombarding the DLR with Star Wars and Marvel ....... FORGET IT. I dream of an IP-Free Tomorrowland. At the very least corporate needs to compromise ... give us a few original rides with a few IPs mixed in.

My issue is the Crystal Palace. It reminds me too much of a cross between GoG and Land of Oz. Looks more Fantasy than Futuristic.

[Disney_Dad]

The glass building reminds me of the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove. The idea was of its time, I guess.

[TFN5459]

The glass building reminds me of the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove. The idea was of its time, I guess.

Also the concepts proposed for the Imagination Pavillion in EPCOT and Discovery Bay behind Frontierland had similar Crystal "dome" structures as well, seems like they just kept copying it around to the next project after each one was cancelled. Not entirely sure but it might have been a Tony Baxter idea given he worked on both of those earlier projects.

[stovk]

Just an offhand observation. Doesn't the artwork seem a little amateurish? It looks like the Imagineer had his child do it. Definitely not up to Ryman, Goff, or McKim standards.

[Mike_M]

Just an offhand observation. Doesn't the artwork seem a little amateurish? It looks like the Imagineer had his child do it. Definitely not up to Ryman, Goff, or McKim standards.

It reminds me of the artwork done for Disneyland Paris’s Sleeping Beauty Castle. I don’t think it’s amateurish so much as it’s focus is more on color palate and giving it a bit of a surreal tone.

Also, by the time this was being worked on, i’m sure that spending too much time on a proposal image would have been thought of as a bit of a waste of time. They weren’t painting a piece of art so much as they were creating something to get a point across.

[Mr Wiggins]

Just an offhand observation. Doesn't the artwork seem a little amateurish? It looks like the Imagineer had his child do it. Definitely not up to Ryman, Goff, or McKim standards.

Sadly true. Part of the problem is that Imagineering can't control which pieces management selects for distribution -- a quickie preliminary color study can end up being miscast as the centerpiece of a PR pitch. The positions of "art director" and "key designer" used to carry weight, equivalent to the experience and talent of the people holding the titles. Not any more, under the non-creative marketing management that calls the shots.

The piece on the blog that mondo's post linked to has better technique (albeit lo-res, out of focus, sucky gamma and likely the wrong color temp, all of which has gotta make the artist pull his or her hair)...