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  • [Rumor] DLH DVC Tower

    https://www.dailybulletin.com/2020/0...e-share-tower/


    Article has picture of a model of the way the DLH will look with the new DVC tower. Apparently a meeting was held with Walnut St residents to provide them with information about the proposed construction.
    "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

  • #2
    I'm honestly surprised that this hasn't been delayed or shelved from the Coronavirus epidemic.The tiered balconies and private pool were not in the original plan. I wonder if the spa was canned in favor of the pool.

    The tiered balconies sound interesting, but it's bizarre that they placed them facing away from the hotel, instead of facing inward. There's not much of an appealing westward view, to be considered enticing.

    Comment


    • #3
      I guess (from the article) that the 'tiered backside' is to make it easier to obscure the building with trees so the Walnut St homes aren't facing a huge tower.

      Although (as usual) the 'final product' may bear no resemblance whatsoever to the first 'drafts'.
      "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

      Comment


      • #4
        Not surprised at all that this is not paused. DVC represents a great value for Disney, ongoing cash for maintenance fees on contracts that are almost impossible to get out of. Timeshares are always generally a poor value at best, someone did the math once, you’d need to stay at a Disney resort every year for something like 30 years to break even on most DVC contracts. Smart on Disney’s part as it guarantees people will vacation on property, and if that’s what people want to do hey it may work for them.

        As for the tiers my guess is not only does it break up the tower visually but it MAY also mean more larger villas, which again makes more money.

        Take a studio vs one bedroom, one bedroom sleeps one more person but costs double the points. So Disney gets double the cash without needing to construct nearly as much. That extrapolates upward to the grand villas, where the cost vs square footage means Disney gets way more $$ for an area way smaller than an equivalent number of studio rooms would be. Most DVC properties have one maybe two grand villas, they may be killing two birds with one stone here; fixing the sight lines while also adding a larger number of lucrative grand villa rooms with large balconies as selling points.

        I don’t mind it, DVC properties can be easily rented from owners often at rates far far lower than hotel rack rates. We’ve gotten GCH one bedrooms at a $700-800 savings over the same week in a hotel room, so DVC additions don’t necessarily mean more stock only for DVC members. Maybe this will even take pressure off the GCH stock, one can hope!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post
          Not surprised at all that this is not paused. DVC represents a great value for Disney, ongoing cash for maintenance fees on contracts that are almost impossible to get out of. Timeshares are always generally a poor value at best, someone did the math once, you’d need to stay at a Disney resort every year for something like 30 years to break even on most DVC contracts. Smart on Disney’s part as it guarantees people will vacation on property, and if that’s what people want to do hey it may work for them.
          However, will the demand still be there after the epidemic lifts?

          Post 9/11, Construction on WDW's Pop Century was delayed and eventually the western portion was abandoned mid-construction. The unfinished rooms weren't even completed for about a decade, where they were later re-branded as the Art of Animation Resort.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Spongeocto4 View Post
            However, will the demand still be there after the epidemic lifts?

            Post 9/11, Construction on WDW's Pop Century was delayed and eventually the western portion was abandoned mid-construction. The unfinished rooms weren't even completed for about a decade, where they were later re-branded as the Art of Animation Resort.
            The....optimist? In me hopes that they struggle which would then drive down room prices to a more reasonable rate. However.....the low number of rooms ,approx 3500, in DLR overall means there will likely always be enough people to fill them. The well off casual Disney family will want to stay on property.

            The fact that they are DVC makes it a bit murkier. Timeshare purchases tend to TANK in economic downturns. The resale market usually booms because people who need money try to get out of contracts and recoup Furthermore, because real estate price tend to plummet, see Arizona in 2008, people look to buy those instead of timeshares.

            That being said, Disney has combatted the former by effectively making second market DVC purchasers second class citizens in terms of perks. Disney vacations also represent a different value than most timeshares, but their high cost also means the demographic looking to purchase them is also the demographic that would be in the market for a vacation home.

            edit to also add in, totally agree about possibility of downturn that you mentioned. However, Disney market now is very different than 9/11 era, it exploded after the 50th and has now hit a status where nothing seems to curb popularity. It is a trend, largely driven by the nostalgia trend in pop culture right now, it will die down like everything else. People always forget these things...grunge 90s was completely the antithesis of Disney and lots of tweens, teens, and twenties would not have been caught dead enjoying Disney. For now though I think there will definitely be a downturn but not as big as 9/11

            Comment


            • #7
              food, clothing and shelter over DVC any day...
              I am old. But still love Disneyland.

              Comment


              • #8
                With the worst unemployment in generations I can't see this working out well. The white collar layoffs will start soon once the quarterly reports start coming in with little to no profit and lots of businesses are going to close down and a lot more layoffs to come. A time share with a sky high price is a terrible idea in this economy. Give it five to ten years.

                Comment


                • #9
                  We've looked at DVC several times over the years and we simply do not see any value at all? It is very bizarre to us to see this achieve any sort of popularity as frankly it's exploitive predatory in the pricing and every scenario we modeled was far more expensive than just going through traditional channels. Frankly it is a multi facited timeshare and there is a reason there is an entire industry devoted just to getting people out of timeshares.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tarheelalum View Post
                    With the worst unemployment in generations I can't see this working out well. The white collar layoffs will start soon once the quarterly reports start coming in with little to no profit and lots of businesses are going to close down and a lot more layoffs to come. A time share with a sky high price is a terrible idea in this economy. Give it five to ten years.
                    Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                    We've looked at DVC several times over the years and we simply do not see any value at all? It is very bizarre to us to see this achieve any sort of popularity as frankly it's exploitive predatory in the pricing and every scenario we modeled was far more expensive than just going through traditional channels. Frankly it is a multi facited timeshare and there is a reason there is an entire industry devoted just to getting people out of timeshares.
                    The power of management's "if we the put the Disney name on it, people will buy it" mindset to skew their read on the public cannot be overestimated.

                    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 06-05-2020, 03:05 PM.
                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                    - Walt Disney

                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                    - Michael Eisner

                    "It's very symbiotic."
                    - Bob Chapek

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                      The power of management's "if we the put the Disney name on it, people will buy it" mindset to skew their read on the public cannot be overestimated.
                      "THAT the TRUTH"........
                      *Just glad , that I have learn better......specially with Today Disney !
                      Company is not at same value ,than use to be many years ago...... IMO
                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                        The power of management's "if we the put the Disney name on it, people will buy it" mindset to skew their read on the public cannot be overestimated.
                        How is the mindset skewed. DVC is wildly successful for Disney. It’s absolutely not for everyone, I wouldn’t buy into it. But you cannot deny it’s success. Disneyland’s will easily sell out even in this climate.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                          We've looked at DVC several times over the years and we simply do not see any value at all? It is very bizarre to us to see this achieve any sort of popularity as frankly it's exploitive predatory in the pricing and every scenario we modeled was far more expensive than just going through traditional channels. Frankly it is a multi facited timeshare and there is a reason there is an entire industry devoted just to getting people out of timeshares.
                          True for timeshares in general, but Disney has one of the most flexible programs out there with their points system. While not at all for me, I know two families that have bought in and use the heck out of it all the timed are as happy as could be.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            We bought into DVC at the Grand Californian a couple of years ago and couldn’t be happier. It absolutely isn’t for everyone, but if you fit the right demographic it can make sense. We have 4 kids, the oldest is 7 years old, are from Washington state and visit once a year for about a week. If you compare the cost of our contract to the cost of rack rate rooms at the Grand Cal, it ends up being about a 40% savings over the length of the contract. The thing that sold us was that the deed to the property expires in 40 years, so we won’t be stuck with maintenance fees for eternity. We can pass along the contract and share it with our family if my wife and I ever get sick of Disneyland (yeah right, I could barely finish that sentence ). You have to own at the grand cal to stay there, it’s extremely difficult for WDW owners to get a reservation because it’s the only property at Disneyland. You can’t get a direct contract through Disney (waitlist only thats years long), you have to get it on the resale market, and even those can be hard to come by. Its a product of low supply in California, because it’s not the same way in Florida where contracts are easy to come by and significantly cheaper. There will be plenty of demand in California and they will sell out in a flash, because it will be the first to be built at Disneyland in 11 years.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I bought a resale contract for the Villas at Grand Californian for $185 a point in December. They are currently selling for $225 a point resale, if you can even get one. It's important to note that there is incredible demand for DVC units in Anaheim, as the City originally put a cap of only 50 or 60 units throughout the entire Disneyland Resort planned area. At WDW, there are probably anywhere from 1 to 2 thousand units!! It's to be seen if the City grants this tower, as it requires a certain degree of discretionary approval from either a commission, hearing examiner, council, or combination of all. I believe there was a fear initially that these sort of units would promote longer term stays in the resort area, as they are equipped with kitchens, washer and driers, and other apartment like amenities. This may explain why the majority of this tower is comprised of typical hotel room type units, and not the 1 and 2 bedroom villas that come equipped with a full kitchen.

                              I agree with the comments regarding vacation properties being some of the first things to go when there is an economic downturn. The problem with this current economic downtown as it relates to DVC, is that it has severely impacted service workers, many of which are not the target demographic for the DVC program. Further, landlords are still collecting rents due to a 600 dollar a week federal unemployment benefit. Housing prices throughout the country are still trending upward. Many people, especially in white collar work, are socking more money away right now since they haven't been able to travel or eat out and were still awarded a anywhere from 1,000 to 3,000 dollars from the federal government. I just read that DVC resale contracts had their fourth best selling month of ALL TIME just last month.

                              I actually believe the DVC program is a great value, assuming hotel rates on property keep rising. To stay four nights at the Grand Californian in a 1 bedroom suite could cost around four to six grand depending on when you go. Even a normal hotel room at DLH can cost over $500 a night now. Assuming you buy a resale contract WITH CASH, you can enjoy major savings after your first 5 or 6 visits.

                              With all that said, things can change very quickly. I am curious if this DVC tower is proposed at 350 rooms, but gets scaled back to 150 rooms as the project progresses. It seems like it would be very easy to convert floors or portions of it to regular hotel rooms.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Spalding View Post
                                I bought a resale contract for the Villas at Grand Californian for $185 a point in December. They are currently selling for $225 a point resale, if you can even get one. It's important to note that there is incredible demand for DVC units in Anaheim, as the City originally put a cap of only 50 or 60 units throughout the entire Disneyland Resort planned area. At WDW, there are probably anywhere from 1 to 2 thousand units!! It's to be seen if the City grants this tower, as it requires a certain degree of discretionary approval from either a commission, hearing examiner, council, or combination of all. I believe there was a fear initially that these sort of units would promote longer term stays in the resort area, as they are equipped with kitchens, washer and driers, and other apartment like amenities. This may explain why the majority of this tower is comprised of typical hotel room type units, and not the 1 and 2 bedroom villas that come equipped with a full kitchen.

                                I agree with the comments regarding vacation properties being some of the first things to go when there is an economic downturn. The problem with this current economic downtown as it relates to DVC, is that it has severely impacted service workers, many of which are not the target demographic for the DVC program. Further, landlords are still collecting rents due to a 600 dollar a week federal unemployment benefit. Housing prices throughout the country are still trending upward. Many people, especially in white collar work, are socking more money away right now since they haven't been able to travel or eat out and were still awarded a anywhere from 1,000 to 3,000 dollars from the federal government. I just read that DVC resale contracts had their fourth best selling month of ALL TIME just last month.

                                I actually believe the DVC program is a great value, assuming hotel rates on property keep rising. To stay four nights at the Grand Californian in a 1 bedroom suite could cost around four to six grand depending on when you go. Even a normal hotel room at DLH can cost over $500 a night now. Assuming you buy a resale contract WITH CASH, you can enjoy major savings after your first 5 or 6 visits.

                                With all that said, things can change very quickly. I am curious if this DVC tower is proposed at 350 rooms, but gets scaled back to 150 rooms as the project progresses. It seems like it would be very easy to convert floors or portions of it to regular hotel rooms.
                                Grats on the contract, hope it works out for you and you get lots of enjoyment out of it. I would also guess that yes the scaled back number of one bedroom rooms w/ the kitchen relates to shorter stays on DLR property. One of my family members worked for for disney up until a few years ago, and though she didn't have access to official numbers she was frequently quoted as 3 days being the prime profit time for DLR. Longer and the amount of spend per day dropped considerably. It was better for two families to be there for 6 days instead of one for 6 or 7, which even without any info makes sense. My guess is that the 1br and 2br are just trading $/day vs guaranteed long term income. Maybe that didn't work out for them in GCH's case and they see short stay options at the new DVC tower as better. In terms of scale of DVC they could always start with 350, if demand isn't there simply claw back a bunch of hotel rooms until times got better and then sell more contracts as well.

                                I think there may be some over optimism on people's part when looking at the economic downturn. It may be predominantly service now, but as those people (which is one of the largest subsets of the economy) attempt to claw their way back they will be spending less money on other things, which trickles upward leading to lost profits and cuts among white collar workers. The stock market's return is also just a whopping bubble pumped almost purely by fed dollars at this point. Boeing has had numerous contracts deferred and cancelled and somehow rebounded to above half it's previous value. It'll pop again, certainly if there is a second wave.

                                All that being said though, a few thousands DVC contracts will probably find buyers, there's lots of people willing to buy and not many options.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                                  Grats on the contract, hope it works out for you and you get lots of enjoyment out of it. I would also guess that yes the scaled back number of one bedroom rooms w/ the kitchen relates to shorter stays on DLR property. One of my family members worked for for disney up until a few years ago, and though she didn't have access to official numbers she was frequently quoted as 3 days being the prime profit time for DLR. Longer and the amount of spend per day dropped considerably. It was better for two families to be there for 6 days instead of one for 6 or 7, which even without any info makes sense. My guess is that the 1br and 2br are just trading $/day vs guaranteed long term income. Maybe that didn't work out for them in GCH's case and they see short stay options at the new DVC tower as better. In terms of scale of DVC they could always start with 350, if demand isn't there simply claw back a bunch of hotel rooms until times got better and then sell more contracts as well.

                                  I think there may be some over optimism on people's part when looking at the economic downturn. It may be predominantly service now, but as those people (which is one of the largest subsets of the economy) attempt to claw their way back they will be spending less money on other things, which trickles upward leading to lost profits and cuts among white collar workers. The stock market's return is also just a whopping bubble pumped almost purely by fed dollars at this point. Boeing has had numerous contracts deferred and cancelled and somehow rebounded to above half it's previous value. It'll pop again, certainly if there is a second wave.

                                  All that being said though, a few thousands DVC contracts will probably find buyers, there's lots of people willing to buy and not many options.
                                  Thanks. Very interesting about the 3 day thing for profit and makes a ton of sense. I tend to agree with the over optimism on the economy. Being in WA State, everything going on with Boeing has me worried, as it can wreak havoc on the entire region!!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Spalding View Post

                                    Thanks. Very interesting about the 3 day thing for profit and makes a ton of sense. I tend to agree with the over optimism on the economy. Being in WA State, everything going on with Boeing has me worried, as it can wreak havoc on the entire region!!
                                    The three day profit thing basically, and again allegedly, works out like this. If you have a family staying for any length of time they are going to allocate X amount of dollars to merchandise and extras and X amount of dollars to food.

                                    This idea is that on average a family will go with a certain dollar amount in mind for spending, and staying longer won't increase that amount. A family staying for three days that says we will spend $400 on souvenirs won't increase that amount just because they are staying beyond those number of days. So getting that family "out" so to speak and replacing them with a new family means resetting that souvenir dollar amount again.

                                    The same applies in some respects to food as well. Most visitors will have a budget for food which includes a "splurge" meal or two, the bigger ticket sit down restaurants that will definitely bring in more than the lower value sit down meals. Staying a longer period of time often does not mean a family or visitors will add more "splurge" meals to their budget, they will stick with the same number whether or not they stayed three days or five.

                                    So it comes down to this. A family will a budget for souvenirs and a cap on splurge meals, most families allegedly spend that to its maximum potential in three days. Therefore there is a greater profit potential to have that family leave and a new family come in, since the family staying longer will not spend extra money and will likely just stretch out their budget for souvenirs and stick to cheaper meal options.

                                    In essence, guests that stay five days often aren't experiencing those five days to the same level as a three day stay, they are stretching out their theme park time and not necessarily using that extra time to splurge.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      WDW News Today has updated concept of the proposed tower. The tower now appears to be a backward 'L'' shaped, with the DVC tower being perpendicular to the Frontier Tower tower's. Because of this, the DVC tower will partially obscure a few of the Frontier Towers rooms.

                                      Another small pool, hot tub/spa and deck will be added next to the DVC tower, with a water area themed to 'Ink and Paint' (with what appears to be a water activated Mickey Mural). In addition:
                                      While amenities will include the pool, a pool bar, community hall, and fitness center, all other amenities, like retail, restaurants, valet, meeting spaces, and check-in will be provided by the existing facilities at the Disneyland Hotel.
                                      It should be noted that Disney has not confirmed whether the new pool/fitness center will be open to non-DVC guests or if it will be private, similar to the Bay Lake Tower in WDW.

                                      The tower would open in 2023 or later.
                                      Tthe development process on the twelve-story Disney Vacation Club tower at the Disneyland Resort is still very much in motion, with new concept art being released.
                                      Last edited by Spongeocto4; 07-17-2020, 11:31 PM. Reason: Grammar

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Another money grab aimed for the affluent.
                                        We need another Walt...and fast!

                                        "It's always more difficult to recover than it is to do the right thing at the beginning" - Tony Baxter,
                                        The Imagineering Story, Episode 4 "Hit or Miss"

                                        Comment

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