Opting out of "extended expiration" - No guarantee for AP entry

[DreamsofColor]

I've been reading AP entry into Disney parks won't be guaranteed once they open. I'm a Signature APer and originally opted to continue my monthly payments (and extend my expiration date) once the parks open. Now I'm starting to regret this decision if there is no guarantee entry. At this point it seems like a waste of money.

Is there still time to opt out of the "extended expiration" and get refunded (the default choice)?

[whiteness]

I've been reading AP entry into Disney parks won't be guaranteed once they open. I'm a Signature APer and originally opted to continue my monthly payments (and extend my expiration date) once the parks open. Now I'm starting to regret this decision if there is no guarantee entry. At this point it seems like a waste of money.

Is there still time to opt out of the "extended expiration" and get refunded (the default choice)?

Disney told me that once you have opted for "Extended Expiration", then it is impossible to reverse that decision.

But maybe that only applied once you have gone past your pass's original expiration date?

I suggest you call Disney and ask for clarification. And please post their answer here, thanks!

[9oldmen]

If they follow the example of what they're doing in Shanghai, then they won't "start the clock" on your extension until the day comes when you can get unrestricted access to the parks (or whatever access you had before the shutdown) without having to make a reservation (which we don't know yet if you will have to).
As far as "opting out" of the extension, that would only be the case if you haven't reached what would have been your original expiration date. (This is being discussed extensively on another thread).

We're still not sure how it will work. I know that Universal Orlando is supposed to reopen June 1st (for Passholders and Team Members), and June 5th for everyone else, and they are NOT going to do a reservation system.

[disneychrista]

Technically hasn't there always been no guarantee of entry?

[JerrodDRagon]

If they follow the example of what they're doing in Shanghai, then they won't "start the clock" on your extension until the day comes when you can get unrestricted access to the parks (or whatever access you had before the shutdown) without having to make a reservation (which we don't know yet if you will have to).
As far as "opting out" of the extension, that would only be the case if you haven't reached what would have been your original expiration date. (This is being discussed extensively on another thread).

We're still not sure how it will work. I know that Universal Orlando is supposed to reopen June 1st (for Passholders and Team Members), and June 5th for everyone else, and they are NOT going to do a reservation system.

I'd hope so...but Universal isn't in Florida so I guess these companies in the West might risk pissing a few people off to not give us free time.

[tarheelalum]

I bet you could shame Disney into giving you your money back pretty quickly. If some Signature pass holders were to stand on the side walk in front of the entrance on Harbor with signs protesting Disneyland for deceiving them, and call all of the local media up to cover it, TDA would fold up real quick and give all of them a refund forthwith. And man would that be entertaining !!

[whiteness]

I bet you could shame Disney into giving you your money back pretty quickly. If some Signature pass holders were to stand on the side walk in front of the entrance on Harbor with signs protesting Disneyland for deceiving them, and call all of the local media up to cover it, TDA would fold up real quick and give all of them a refund forthwith. And man would that be entertaining !!

I'll bet if some Disney Fan Sites, like Micechat, would cover this issue, and ask Disney to clarify their official position, then Disney would quickly relent and offer refunds.

[Harold82]

I've been reading AP entry into Disney parks won't be guaranteed once they open.

Source?

[tarheelalum]

I'll bet if some Disney Fan Sites, like Micechat, would cover this issue, and ask Disney to clarify their official position, then Disney would quickly relent and offer refunds.

Disney probably doesn't even know their official position yet. They are between a rock and a hard place on this issue. They market and sell the Sig APs with the idea you can go any time you want for the Sig+ and every day except for the blockouts at the end of the year for the Sig. Of course the fine print covers their rear end but their sales pitch doesn't mention that. They would probably win in a courtroom but at tremendous cost to their brand not to mention their longterm financial prospects and viability. The annual passholders are Disneyland's bread and butter as much as the out of towners hate to hear it. The AP program is a cash cow of steady income. Also the APs buy up every bit of merch in sight. AP can be counted to attend the parks during recessions, periods of low attendance and any other situation when the tourist money or interest drys up for whatever reason. And during a time of great financial peril, that cash cow should be cherished, not taken for granted.

[Pips]

Forgive me if this has been suggested elsewhere and maybe they did this is Shanghai. (I don't have an AP right now, so haven't been following closely.) But....perhaps APs will get a jump ahead of others when reservations open up? Maybe even Sig+ people being first in line before reservations open to others?
There is no way DL can allow unlimited entry to the parks, but they can still make kind accommodations for their best customers.

[9oldmen]

Source?

The "source" is the official website which states:
"Upon reopening, certain parks, hotels, restaurants, attractions, experiences and other offerings will be modified or unavailable, will have limited capacity and will be subject to limited availability or even closure, and park admission and offerings are not guaranteed."
Also, the speculation is based on what they're doing in Shanghai with the reservation system.

[Zanadros]

Directly on my Signature AP, it states:
“This NONTRANSFERABLE Passport is the property of the Disneyland Resort. It provides the individual whose name appears herein, and whose photo appears on file, with pre-specified, revocable privileges, which may be changed or canceled at any time without notice. Theme park admission is not guaranteed and is subject to capacity.”

Yes, you pay more for Signature for no black out dates, but just because a day is not blocked doesn’t mean you will necessarily get in to the park. There are days when they hit capacity. In this case, there is a pandemic that has forced them to change operating procedure and your AP is not worth anything unless they say so.

[whiteness]

Yes, you pay more for Signature for no black out dates, but just because a day is not blocked doesn’t mean you will necessarily get in to the park. There are days when they hit capacity. In this case, there is a pandemic that has forced them to change operating procedure and your AP is not worth anything unless they say so.

Disney doesn't legally "owe" any of us very much: their lawyers made sure of that.

But there was an implied understanding between Disney and their passholders which made up most of the inherent "worth" of the passes that Disney sold. By not honoring that understanding, Disney is effectively devaluing their own passes in the eyes of future passholders. Given the operating losses and debt that they are incurring, devaluing their own product and reducing future sales is probably not a good idea.

[tarheelalum]

Directly on my Signature AP, it states:
“This NONTRANSFERABLE Passport is the property of the Disneyland Resort. It provides the individual whose name appears herein, and whose photo appears on file, with pre-specified, revocable privileges, which may be changed or canceled at any time without notice. Theme park admission is not guaranteed and is subject to capacity.”

Yes, you pay more for Signature for no black out dates, but just because a day is not blocked doesn’t mean you will necessarily get in to the park. There are days when they hit capacity. In this case, there is a pandemic that has forced them to change operating procedure and your AP is not worth anything unless they say so.

So go pound sand AP holder. Screw you and your steady money. You'll get what we give you and you'll be happy to get that!!

But every action has a reaction. So where does the money come from after you tell the golden goose to be happy with much less than what they paid for? 28% of the workforce has filed for unemployment now and more to come. Where does the money come from after you've ran off your best steady customers?

[Mr Wiggins]

...But there was an implied understanding between Disney and their passholders which made up most of the inherent "worth" of the passes that Disney sold. By not honoring that understanding, Disney is effectively devaluing their own passes in the eyes of future passholders. Given the operating losses and debt that they are incurring, devaluing their own product and reducing future sales is probably not a good idea.

When it comes to customer relations, no one ever accused Disney Parks' revolving-door management of long-term thinking.

[Mr Wiggins]

...But every action has a reaction. So where does the money come from after you tell the golden goose to be happy with much less than what they paid for? 28% of the workforce has filed for unemployment now and more to come. Where does the money come from after you've ran off your best steady customers?

"Look, we’ve got the wealth of riches.
We’ve got an embarrassment of riches."
-- Bob Chapek

[Stormy]

I think the thing is, Disney could never have imagined a pandemic (or anything else) that would have shut down the parks for more than a few days, let alone a few months. They also couldn't have imagined that reopening would be so full of restrictions and rules for public health purposes.

Sure due to terrorism there's more security like metal detectors, bag checks etc. But nothing that would impact guests beyond the amount of time/space it takes to inspect bags and/or walk through a detector. Once inside the berm, we're pretty much 'free' to move about as we choose without restrictions. What we're facing with social distancing is akin to having bag checks at every point off the hub or having to be 'wanded' to get on an attraction. It's something that's going to impact everything that happens INSIDE the berm and in order to meet SD guidelines Disney's going to have to restrict the number of guests in some fashion, at least for the foreseeable future.

We're in uncharted territory and Disney is having to 'make it up' as they go (sort of). So when Disney's verbiage doesn't guarantee an AP 'absolute' unrestricted access, they never imagined there would be more than just routine capacity closures or at worst a few days closing after an earthquake or (God forbid) another 9/11. They never contemplated a situation where they'd have to find a way to restrict the number of people not only inside the parks but also on the Esplanade to maintain SD.

I think they'll try to make it as 'fair' on the APs as they possibly can. Whether it's 'APs first' or 'AP doesn't reactivate until you get your first reserved slot'. Who knows? Right now it's all speculation, heck, Disney probably doesn't even know what they're going to do.

[WaltDisney'sAlec]

I would just like to say that I love this thread. It has honest, thought out responses to a genuine issue we have with Disney, mixed in with balanced commentary. The topic may be a bit mundane to some, but this is the kind of discourse that I joined Micechat for and I appreciate everyone's honesty and evenhandedness in this thread.

The anxieties expressed here are similar to the ones I raised in this thread. Disney hasn't been forthright with us about what passholder privileges they will honor, most likely because they are not sure themselves. I personally view that as a failure of management. Other parks, from Six Flags to Shanghai Disneyland, have been forthright with how they will extend passes. Shanghai guaranteed that APs would have their expiration dates tolled (paused) while the reservation period was in place. Does that mean they will pause the passes when reservation ends, even if capacity is still at 50% or some other low figure?

They haven't said. The situation is in flux and I'm sure they want the freedom to change their minds. They can always tack on an extra free month to our passes as compensation for any period that our passes are wasted. The problem is, with Disney wanting the freedom to change their minds, they're relying on guests to take the plunge with them. How they can expect guests to make future decisions that cost thousands of dollars in the middle of a pandemic and economic downturn is beyond me. They need to be giving us more information, and they have been silent.

Disney gave us the option to extend our expiration date and payments, or keep everything as is. The fact that some have reported the decision as irreversible tells me I definitely won't be extending my pass if the circumstances of opening/capacity are still unclear. However, I don't even know how long I have to make the decision, because Disney didn't tell us that either! In the words of Lemongrab: "unacceptable!"

There could be local considerations in play, not just about the virus, but about the extent to which they will need to rely on APs to fill the parks when they reopen. Maybe they feel like they don't need to be forthright or helpful in granting automatic extensions, but clearly that's hurting their goodwill with us even further. It's just hard for me to comprehend given that other parks have been transparent. Disney should be setting the standard, and failing to do that here I view as a failure of leadership/management.

[WaltDisney'sAlec]

I've been reading AP entry into Disney parks won't be guaranteed once they open. I'm a Signature APer and originally opted to continue my monthly payments (and extend my expiration date) once the parks open. Now I'm starting to regret this decision if there is no guarantee entry. At this point it seems like a waste of money.

Is there still time to opt out of the "extended expiration" and get refunded (the default choice)?

DIsney hasn't said. If you call and find out, let us know. We've been looking for a date when we need to decide by, but they haven't publicized it. it's very sloppy on their part.

Disney told me that once you have opted for "Extended Expiration", then it is impossible to reverse that decision.

But maybe that only applied once you have gone past your pass's original expiration date?

I suggest you call Disney and ask for clarification. And please post their answer here, thanks!

It is insane that your decision is irreversible. Even if you pass your original expiration date, they should give you the ability to cancel your pass at any point under the circumstances. I know legally they are under no obligation, but if I opt to extend my pass and I can't visit the parks as the new expiration date approaches, I'll feel like I'm getting railroaded.

Technically hasn't there always been no guarantee of entry?

Certainly true. Entry is always subject to capacity, but only one park has ever hit max capacity and usually only around Christmas/New Years Eve. If both parks hit capacity on a regular basis, then we're all going to feel shortchanged.

I bet you could shame Disney into giving you your money back pretty quickly. If some Signature pass holders were to stand on the side walk in front of the entrance on Harbor with signs protesting Disneyland for deceiving them, and call all of the local media up to cover it, TDA would fold up real quick and give all of them a refund forthwith. And man would that be entertaining !!

I'll bet if some Disney Fan Sites, like Micechat, would cover this issue, and ask Disney to clarify their official position, then Disney would quickly relent and offer refunds.

Speaking truth to power is of vital importance, especially during this time. I'm fully aware of our privilege as people discussing whether Disney will let us in with our annual passes. Protesting entry to establishments is not a good look right now. Unfortunately, our best move might just have to be voting with our wallets.

Disney probably doesn't even know their official position yet. They are between a rock and a hard place on this issue. They market and sell the Sig APs with the idea you can go any time you want for the Sig+ and every day except for the blockouts at the end of the year for the Sig. Of course the fine print covers their rear end but their sales pitch doesn't mention that. They would probably win in a courtroom but at tremendous cost to their brand not to mention their longterm financial prospects and viability. The annual passholders are Disneyland's bread and butter as much as the out of towners hate to hear it. The AP program is a cash cow of steady income. Also the APs buy up every bit of merch in sight. AP can be counted to attend the parks during recessions, periods of low attendance and any other situation when the tourist money or interest drys up for whatever reason. And during a time of great financial peril, that cash cow should be cherished, not taken for granted.

Disney doesn't legally "owe" any of us very much: their lawyers made sure of that.

But there was an implied understanding between Disney and their passholders which made up most of the inherent "worth" of the passes that Disney sold. By not honoring that understanding, Disney is effectively devaluing their own passes in the eyes of future passholders. Given the operating losses and debt that they are incurring, devaluing their own product and reducing future sales is probably not a good idea.

You're both right on the money. It's wild to me that they still don't know their official position after all this time. It took me 6 years to buy a new AP from the last time I had one, because it just wasn't worth it. If they keep treating us like this, it might be another 10 years before I feel compelled to give them my money regularly.

So go pound sand AP holder. Screw you and your steady money. You'll get what we give you and you'll be happy to get that!!

But every action has a reaction. So where does the money come from after you tell the golden goose to be happy with much less than what they paid for? 28% of the workforce has filed for unemployment now and more to come. Where does the money come from after you've ran off your best steady customers?

I can see Disney scrambling to guarantee APs an extra 2 months free or something like that to add on to expiration dates. I do think this is going to blow up in their faces when it comes to attendance, though.

"Look, we’ve got the wealth of riches.
We’ve got an embarrassment of riches."
-- Bob Chapek

I certainly hope Chapek has had better PR training here, and that he doesn't keep talking to guests the way he does to investors. This quote is embarrassing.

I think the thing is, Disney could never have imagined a pandemic (or anything else) that would have shut down the parks for more than a few days, let alone a few months. They also couldn't have imagined that reopening would be so full of restrictions and rules for public health purposes.

Sure due to terrorism there's more security like metal detectors, bag checks etc. But nothing that would impact guests beyond the amount of time/space it takes to inspect bags and/or walk through a detector. Once inside the berm, we're pretty much 'free' to move about as we choose without restrictions. What we're facing with social distancing is akin to having bag checks at every point off the hub or having to be 'wanded' to get on an attraction. It's something that's going to impact everything that happens INSIDE the berm and in order to meet SD guidelines Disney's going to have to restrict the number of guests in some fashion, at least for the foreseeable future.

We're in uncharted territory and Disney is having to 'make it up' as they go (sort of). So when Disney's verbiage doesn't guarantee an AP 'absolute' unrestricted access, they never imagined there would be more than just routine capacity closures or at worst a few days closing after an earthquake or (God forbid) another 9/11. They never contemplated a situation where they'd have to find a way to restrict the number of people not only inside the parks but also on the Esplanade to maintain SD.

I think they'll try to make it as 'fair' on the APs as they possibly can. Whether it's 'APs first' or 'AP doesn't reactivate until you get your first reserved slot'. Who knows? Right now it's all speculation, heck, Disney probably doesn't even know what they're going to do.

I agree that the could and should try to make it as fair on APs as they can. I just don't understand why they aren't being forthright or transparent about it. I mean, the last update we had about the AP process was over a month ago. Since then, Shanghai Disneyland has reopened, Disney Springs has reopened, and other theme parks have made certain promises and overtures to their passholders. What's Disney's reason for silence, and what's taking them so long? I just don't understand.

[whiteness]

It is insane that your decision is irreversible. Even if you pass your original expiration date, they should give you the ability to cancel your pass at any point under the circumstances. I know legally they are under no obligation, but if I opt to extend my pass and I can't visit the parks as the new expiration date approaches, I'll feel like I'm getting railroaded.

Yes, it is insane, but here is what a Disney CM and her Supervisor both told me when I called on Friday, as reported in this thread:

https://discuss.micechat.com/forum/d...hat-inflexible

We are planning to relocate to the Orlando area sometime late summer early fall.

We are also Disneyland annual passholders. When we purchased our passes, paid cash in full, we "knew" that they would expire before we would move.

That's no longer true.

Today, I called Disney to find out what my options were. They are:

1. Take our chances that Disney reopens before we move and we can get some value out of them.
2. Cancel our passes before they would "expire" mid-June and get a pro-rated refund.

Here is what we cannot do:

A. We cannot transfer them to Disneyworld. I wasn't too surprised, but it would have been a nice gesture.

B. We cannot wait until we are closer to our moving date, to see if Disney will re-open in time, before requesting a refund. After our nominal "expiration date", the passes are automatically "extended" for the number of days that Disney is "closed", and getting a pro-rated refund after that point is impossible!

#B was absolutely shocking to me, and I wonder how many people have already been silently burned by this, and don't know it yet?

To be clear: if you are in possession of an annual pass that would have expired on or before May 21st, and you lose your job, have to move out of town, or whatever, Disney will NOT give you a prorated refund for the days that Disneyland was closed since March. You are now stuck with a useless pass. I'm sorry if you didn't realize that until reading this, and I hate to be the one to break it to you, but that's Disney's policy at this point.

I certainly didn't know it, and if I hadn't called them today, I potentially also would have waited until after mid-June before giving up and deciding to request a refund. Which would have been denied.