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  • #21
    Originally posted by Yamamoto364 View Post

    I think the problem here is that it is paid in full but was paid in full via the payment plan. I am not saying it’s right or wrong, but since you choose to start it as a payment plan, even though it was still paid off it is still treated as a payment plan because of the contract you enter when doing that.
    Yes, it's a bug in their process. They didn't take into account the fact that not everyone who purchases passes using a monthly contract actually make monthly payments.

    In fact, it's not a bad thing for Disney that my daughter and my passes were both paid off early. In fact, we actually purchased Batuuan Spira Credit Medallions in Batuu (using cash) to pay hers off the very same day that I started her contract to get her into the park. We intentionally did that, because we thought it would be fun for her to pay for her pass using Star Wars Currency. Little did we know what that bit of "harmless fun" would end up costing us!

    Again, yes, the Disney Cast Members certainly did explain to us that Disney's policy doesn't take a scenario like this into account. And I agree that simply having a policy about something is not a good defense (for the organization) if the policy itself is defective. Nobody would argue that buggy computer software is acceptable; by analogy, buggy organizational processes also need to be identified, fixed and the harm they caused should be corrected.
    Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by whiteness View Post

      Yes, it's a bug in their process. They didn't take into account the fact that not everyone who purchases passes using a monthly contract actually make monthly payments.

      In fact, it's not a bad thing for Disney that my daughter and my passes were both paid off early. In fact, we actually purchased Batuuan Spira Credit Medallions in Batuu (using cash) to pay hers off the very same day that I started her contract to get her into the park. We intentionally did that, because we thought it would be fun for her to pay for her pass using Star Wars Currency. Little did we know what that bit of "harmless fun" would end up costing us!

      Again, yes, the Disney Cast Members certainly did explain to us that Disney's policy doesn't take a scenario like this into account. And I agree that simply having a policy about something is not a good defense (for the organization) if the policy itself is defective. Nobody would argue that buggy computer software is acceptable; by analogy, buggy organizational processes also need to be identified, fixed and the harm they caused should be corrected.
      Why were they originally purchased on a payment plan when the intention wasn’t to pay it monthly ? Is it possible there is something in that contract that is preventing them from refunding you? Just trying to figure out a reason I guess. Not a lawyer, but it’s possible.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Yamamoto364 View Post

        Why were they originally purchased on a payment plan when the intention wasn’t to pay it monthly ? Is it possible there is something in that contract that is preventing them from refunding you? Just trying to figure out a reason I guess. Not a lawyer, but it’s possible.
        For example, I purchased Batuuan Spira Credit Medallions in Batuu (using cash) to pay my daughter's pass off the very same day that I started her contract (just to get her into the park.) We intentionally did that, because we thought it would be fun for her to pay for her pass using Star Wars Currency. Little did we know what that bit of "harmless fun" would end up costing us!

        I cannot say that there was something that prevented Disney from refunding me. I suspect that everyone's contract with Disney, regardless how you purchased your pass, basically states that Disney is not responsible for anything and will never offer you any refunds regardless what happens.

        But apparently, Disney decided that, for most pass holders, they needed to make an exception for public relations purposes. And so they came up with policies that they probably intended to cleverly and elegantly "make things right and fair" for their pass holders.

        Unfortunately, just as with any software, the edge cases often cause problems. Did you ever notice that, if you enter an extreme number or text into a program, you can often cause it to crash? Because the programmer never imagined that the program would encounter that, so the program was naked and defenseless in case someone did for whatever reason. Most people would agree that it shouldn't be possible to crash software just by typing something into an input field, and most modern software is designed to handle whatever condition it can possibly encounter without crashing.

        So, likewise, Disney's policy makers made a policy that they assumed would cover passes purchased with and without monthly payments. But, it was a brittle policy, because it breaks in case anyone paid off their pass before the pass expired. Obviously, nobody at Disney considered that possibility before announcing their new policies. But, I find it hard to imagine that, out of a million pass holders, my daughter and I are the only ones who paid their passes off earlier than Disney expected us to. So, at some point, Disney should do the right thing here, acknowledge that a mistake was made, and correct it. I really hope they do that.
        Last edited by whiteness; 06-12-2020, 04:30 PM.
        Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by whiteness View Post

          For example, I purchased Batuuan Spira Credit Medallions in Batuu (using cash) to pay my daughter's pass off the very same day that I started her contract (just to get her into the park.) We intentionally did that, because we thought it would be fun for her to pay for her pass using Star Wars Currency. Little did we know what that bit of "harmless fun" would end up costing us!
          But you could have just purchased a one day ticket and then upgraded to an annual pass. Anyway guess it doesn’t change it now.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Yamamoto364 View Post

            Why were they originally purchased on a payment plan when the intention wasn’t to pay it monthly ? Is it possible there is something in that contract that is preventing them from refunding you? Just trying to figure out a reason I guess. Not a lawyer, but it’s possible.
            Not lawyer neither
            a contract is for saving Disney butt......not the AP's holder !
            IMO
            I always been against - payment plan
            I always pay in full.......
            Soaring like an EAGLE !

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Yamamoto364 View Post

              But you could have just purchased a one day ticket and then upgraded to an annual pass. Anyway guess it doesn’t change it now.
              Yes, but I wanted to already link the passes, and purchase a MaxPass for her pass, prior to entering the park, and it seemed that the most straightforward way to do that was to purchase an annual pass right from the start, rather than mess around with a ticket. And I assumed that the ultimate outcome would be equivalent. As it would have been had there been no COVID shutdown, and should have been regardless if Disney's policy was not buggy.
              Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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              • #27
                whiteness I have sent you a PM
                "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

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                • #28
                  I've notified several people within Disney, who appear to be in PR or managerial positions at the Parks that their current policy appears to arbitrarily disadvantage certain annual passholders over others.

                  1. Passholders who were still making monthly payments at the time of the shutdown had their payments paused to make them whole.
                  2. Passholders who had paid for their entire pass upfront without entering into a contract have the option to request a prorated refund to make them whole.
                  3. Passholders who started with a contract, but for whatever reason paid the entire contract off prior to the shutdown get no consideration from Disney, as their monthly payments cannot be paused and they are not being offered any refund.

                  What Disney has done, probably unintentionally, is to create a disadvantaged class of passholders that didn't exist prior to this change in policy. By definition, passholders in this class would have already paid off their contract in full prior to the change in policy which disadvantaged them relative to the other passholders not in that class. Passholders such as myself are no longer able to take any action to protect their interests, such as choosing not to pay off their balances prior to their passes expiring which would have been a simple way to protect their interests at no cost to them. I'm sure that any reasonable person would realize that no passholder could have anticipated that paying down a debt early would actually end up costing them several hundred dollars, right? On it's face, it is unfair that Disney has structured their policy in this way.

                  Maybe some of you can see where I'm headed with this, but it most certainly not where I'd like this to end up. Which is why I've spent hours on the phone with Disney explaining what went wrong, and hours researching contact information and sending out further explanations to anyone that I think might be in a position to do something to resolve this. Let's see what happens now.
                  Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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                  • #29
                    Have you tried reaching out to one of the local news channels consumer assistance teams? That may be your only option to remediate without hiring a lawyer.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by DsnyRnr View Post
                      Have you tried reaching out to one of the local news channels consumer assistance teams? That may be your only option to remediate without hiring a lawyer.
                      Yes, I also sent e-mails to several newspaper reporters and news, both local and Orlando. Even some POD casts. Perhaps there's a lot more vital news ATM, right?

                      It wouldn't be "my" lawyer, of course. The lawyer would presumably represent all pass holders who had paid their monthly payments off prior to the park closing. Out of a million pass holders, there are likely to be a few for various reasons. That's something the lawyer would determine during discovery.

                      At the end of the day, pass holders would probably get pennies on the dollar after the lawyers took their cuts, which is no good for anybody. I really hope Disney just fixes this. I'm sure disadvantaging people who paid early isn't what they intended in the first place. Why would they?
                      Last edited by whiteness; 06-15-2020, 04:46 PM.
                      Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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                      • #31
                        I'm not sure if your monthly payment plan contract looks the same as mine. There's a part of it that says "you may prepay all outstanding amounts due under the Contract in their entirety at any time without any penalty." The only way that I can see Disney getting out of it is that there is a clause that says they may delay or waive enforcement of any provisions, including the customer's promise to make timely payments, without altering any other responsibilities under the contract. That's likely what they're relying on right now as their legal justification for delaying everyone's payments. You're asking the right question about being similarly situated among annual passholders on the payment plan who have paid for everything.

                        The good news is, I don't see the contract as waiving any right to a class action (as most terms and conditions tend to have). You have likely waived your right to a jury trial or any other remedy besides a refund, and would have to initiate proceedings in Orange County, CA (unless this can stay in small claims court). Not sure if that's helpful but that could be some guidance on what to include in any letter you might have to make as a demand to the legal department.

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post
                          I'm not sure if your monthly payment plan contract looks the same as mine. There's a part of it that says "you may prepay all outstanding amounts due under the Contract in their entirety at any time without any penalty." The only way that I can see Disney getting out of it is that there is a clause that says they may delay or waive enforcement of any provisions, including the customer's promise to make timely payments, without altering any other responsibilities under the contract. That's likely what they're relying on right now as their legal justification for delaying everyone's payments. You're asking the right question about being similarly situated among annual passholders on the payment plan who have paid for everything.

                          The good news is, I don't see the contract as waiving any right to a class action (as most terms and conditions tend to have). You have likely waived your right to a jury trial or any other remedy besides a refund, and would have to initiate proceedings in Orange County, CA (unless this can stay in small claims court). Not sure if that's helpful but that could be some guidance on what to include in any letter you might have to make as a demand to the legal department.
                          Good to know there is nothing in the contract about waiving class action.

                          FYI, have you seen this? https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc.../2327179/

                          Disney did the right thing stopping payments. They did right by the majority of their passholders. Seaworld did not. I'm not saying Disney is a bad company or handled this badly: far from it. They made a mistake, that's all. I was mad before, but now I just want them to fix their mistake and move on.
                          Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by whiteness View Post

                            Good to know there is nothing in the contract about waiving class action.

                            FYI, have you seen this? https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc.../2327179/

                            Disney did the right thing stopping payments. They did right by the majority of their passholders. Seaworld did not. I'm not saying Disney is a bad company or handled this badly: far from it. They made a mistake, that's all. I was mad before, but now I just want them to fix their mistake and move on.
                            I hadn't seen this before you shared it! I actually have a Six Flags monthly membership (which is distinct from a season pass) that has continued to charge me. They have of course offered to extend the membership for the period of the closure in addition to automatically upgrading the membership level. But if this lawsuit against SeaWorld goes forward or gets a settlement, it would certainly be a bellwether for other theme parks in California and I might be part of a similarly situated class too.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by DsnyRnr View Post
                              Look at https://disneyland.disney.go.com/travel-information/. Under Annual Passports, it specifically says passports paid in full can receive a partial refund for the months during which the park was closed. The page was last updated June 10th, so it is the most up-to-date information they are providing.

                              a partial refund for a period they were closed?

                              I sent a note asking if they would suspend my pass until things return to normal...

                              the new conditions... are not what I agreed to...




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                              • #35
                                Apparently, Disney is now surveying passholders to see if they want to cancel their passes (from Inside the Magic.)



                                Disney already has my answer....
                                Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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                                • #36
                                  Update: I don't want to jinx it, but Disney contacted me today to tell me that they would be able to offer me a prorated refund. From an accounting standpoint, they would be refunding me the last few monthly payments, as I'd effectively already made them.

                                  The last couple of CM's that I spoke with were friendly, helpful and, most importantly, they were also empowered to offer solutions. It's amazing what a big difference that can make!

                                  It's my understanding from speaking with them that what they are doing for me is actually how the policy is meant to be implemented. And how it hopefully will be implemented in the future. But, given my experience, it is still possible that someone calling Guest Services may encounter some road blocks.
                                  Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

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                                  • #37
                                    One option you have is to sue them in small claims court for the value of the unused pass. While Disney may have a "contract" with you that absolves them from actually having to deliver the days promised, a Court may see things differently, in the "spirit" of the law rather than the "letter" of the law.

                                    Anyway, it is extremely doubtful Disney would show up. You would either win by default or Disney may just settle and send you a cheque.

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Lighthope View Post
                                      One option you have is to sue them in small claims court for the value of the unused pass. While Disney may have a "contract" with you that absolves them from actually having to deliver the days promised, a Court may see things differently, in the "spirit" of the law rather than the "letter" of the law.

                                      Anyway, it is extremely doubtful Disney would show up. You would either win by default or Disney may just settle and send you a cheque.
                                      Didn’t see his post where he just said they are refunding him ?

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