Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Jungle Cruise

Collapse

Get Away Today

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jungle Cruise

    Might as well start brainstorming ideas for this one while we're at it.

  • #2
    Feels like people just want to tear things down. Didn’t Walt say something about the hard facts of life in the opening speech?

    Comment


    • #3
      I would love to see something like the Jungle Cruise they have in Tokyo replace the headhunter scene. I think it's really well-done.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jamesscarlette View Post
        Feels like people just want to tear things down. Didn’t Walt say something about the hard facts of life in the opening speech?
        Actually it was about the hard facts that created America. I don't seem to remember learning about African headhunters helping create America, unless you count the ones captured and sold into slavery. Would you prefer the ride feature the Middle Passage as well?

        Comment


        • #5
          Hong Kong Disneyland also has a very attractive Jungle Cruise. This ride could actually be plussed to be amazingly gorgeous while removing problematic elements.
          "I wish they all could be California Bears!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post

            Actually it was about the hard facts that created America. I don't seem to remember learning about African headhunters helping create America, unless you count the ones captured and sold into slavery. Would you prefer the ride feature the Middle Passage as well?
            King, you dropped this-
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #8
              I'll be shocked if jungle cruise isn't the next target.

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Fenix View Post
                I'll be shocked if jungle cruise isn't the next target.
                It already is, push on Social Media from lots of people and celebrities to change Jungle Cruise, Dumbo, Peter Pan, and The Tiki Room. Will be really interesting how Disney responds....In another thread I made a list of things that people have taken offense to in previous Disney films...spoiler alert almost every single film in their back catalogue had an issue....does Disney just destroy everything related to these older films in order to placate the various groups offended by them all?

                Will they overreact and gut rides like Peter Pan for something new? Or just remove the depictions of Indigenous people in the ride? Same can be said for Jungle Cruise and the Tiki Room.....
                Last edited by linkeq2001; 06-25-2020, 03:59 PM.

                Comment


                • #10
                  I'm surprised all these people who want all this change due to racial undertones are still using one dollar bills. I'm sure they will want Disney to ban accepting $1 bills and quarters.
                  "And yes, we implore EVERYBODY to follow the park rules. Having off-ride footage is great, but any still photo's or video's taken ON the coasters at SFMM are strictly against the rules. They are there for your (and everybody's) safety." "Six Flags doesn't allow ANY loose articles on their coasters, and they don't allow video taping on their coasters. " BUT, "​ This is not true. Six Flags does not allow ANY On-Ride video or pictures on the rides. The ONLY way is if you get explicit permission from Park Management." ???

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    In terms of history, there's no question that the headhunters and Trader Sam are racist tropes from the colonialist take on Africa that was popular in mid-20th century America. Disney will have no problem replacing them.

                    And there's little doubt what they'll replace them with:


                    Click image for larger version  Name:	Jungle_Cruise_-_theatrical_poster.png Views:	0 Size:	194.7 KB ID:	8621340
                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                    - Walt Disney

                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                    - Michael Eisner

                    "It's very symbiotic."
                    - Bob Chapek

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Fenix View Post
                      I'll be shocked if jungle cruise isn't the next target.
                      I think Jungle cruise is second on the outraged class hit list. The Tiki Room is next up for their destruction.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by tarheelalum View Post

                        I think Jungle cruise is second on the outraged class hit list. The Tiki Room is next up for their destruction.
                        It's likely be on the chopping block for an IP for years, this will simply be the final impetus to push it over the edge....Moana incoming

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by tarheelalum View Post

                          I think Jungle cruise is second on the outraged class hit list. The Tiki Room is next up for their destruction.
                          What's the issue with The Tiki Room?

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            I’m not jumping on the ‘completely change this ride next’ bandwagon yet, but honestly, all that would even need to change is just the village scene and Trader Sam, both of which are at the end. Replace the villagers with more animals (could easily be an abandoned village) and pull Trader Sam.
                            Done.

                            The bulk of the ride is fine as-is and I think that any change there would be less impactful than Splash Mountain’s change.
                            Mike_M

                            Disneyland Trips
                            Walt Disney World
                            Disneyland Paris

                            1980, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1989
                            1990, 1992, 1993

                            2000, 2001, 2006, 2007, 2009
                            2010, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2016, 2017, 2/2019, 11/2019
                            2020

                            Comment


                            • #16
                              Originally posted by Fenix View Post

                              What's the issue with The Tiki Room?
                              People have issue with the kitsch 1960s era of appropriating Polynesian culture I believe. It's like Polynesian culture, but a very homogenized and antiquated commercialized version of Polynesian culture. That's my understanding at least.

                              Total Tender Rides: 20
                              Total Lilly Belle Rides: 9
                              Total Dapper Days Attended: 2
                              Total Mark Twain Wheelhouse Rides: 5

                              Comment


                              • #17
                                Originally posted by Bongo View Post

                                People have issue with the kitsch 1960s era of appropriating Polynesian culture I believe. It's like Polynesian culture, but a very homogenized and antiquated commercialized version of Polynesian culture. That's my understanding at least.
                                Similar to what have said about JC, it wouldn't be TOO hard to "fix tiki. The easiest thing would be, as others have pointed out, go the Moana direction. That's not to say, make it based around Moana, though I doubt many people would put up too much of a fus to a wink and a nod to Moai, especially if they could get the rock to just to a small voice bit. But the easiest option would literally just consult people from those actual cultures, to mostly drop really cringey stuff, and insert others. From my understanding of comments from people of Polenesian background, the bulk of the issue seems to be, not just the kitchiness of it, but just kind of how "white washed" the efforts to pay lip service to the actual cultures come across. It could be as simple as, actually explain some of meaning behind things being shown? Like the tiki gods in the queue currently do. I doubt most people have issue with the "dumb but fun" stuff like the birb-mobile.

                                Comment


                                • #18
                                  Originally posted by Bongo View Post

                                  People have issue with the kitsch 1960s era of appropriating Polynesian culture I believe. It's like Polynesian culture, but a very homogenized and antiquated commercialized version of Polynesian culture. That's my understanding at least.
                                  So like American Italian food? Look out Dominos you’re next.

                                  Honestly I hope for a somewhat balanced approach, but I know that won’t happen. In America currently you’re either way left or way right or you’re wrong.

                                  like said here already, I’m all for just taking out the indigenous scenes in jungle cruise. While they do somewhat create an honest depiction of indigenous African headhunters (which are real and look generally like their ride counterparts) they are not an entire ride or major part of the ride...a pretty easy fix if people truly find them genuinely problematic. Same could be done for the tiki room, re-cast the song with appropriate ethnicities and keep much of the original attraction the same. Sadly I doubt this will be the case in both examples. It is more likely that Disney will swing the Intellectual Property hammer and retheme the Jungle cruise to the rock movie that will age about as well as Eddie Murphy’s haunted mansion...and of course shoe horn in Moana into one of the few beloved old favorites to “modern it up”.

                                  Comment


                                  • #19
                                    Originally posted by Fenix View Post
                                    What's the issue with The Tiki Room?
                                    There's little issue for those who are unaware of the colonial history of Polynesia, and/or who aren't of Polynesian ancestry.

                                    If you are either of those, however, Tiki culture can vary from off-puttingly patronizing to outrageously racist. Many of the images are religious icons that are for Polynesian cultures as old and as sacred as Christian icons are for Christians.

                                    For anyone who wants a look into some of the issues with Tiki, a good starting point is this article:

                                    Tiki bars are built on cultural appropriation and colonial nostalgia. Where’s the reckoning?

                                    Some excerpts:

                                    "...[Tiki] has been tethered to a crude imperialist fantasy that has treated the South Pacific as a source of escape.

                                    'I do not appreciate colonial nostalgia,' says Stephanie Nohelani Teves, assistant professor in women’s studies at the University of Hawaii at Mānoa and author of 'Defiant Indigeneity: The Politics of Hawaiian Performance.' She’s a Kanaka Maoli (a Hawaii native), born and raised on Oahu though her family roots extend to Maui. 'Tiki bars are not cute.'

                                    And that’s the problem with tiki: how to honor its real contributions to mixology while resisting the parts that dishonor indigenous people, misuse their iconography and exploit their sacred traditions. In a woke world, is there hope for tiki?

                                    Polynesian colonialism

                                    America’s presence in Polynesia is the result of military expansion: We seized Hawaii in the 1890s for its geo-strategic value (same with Samoa, carved up by Western colonial powers in 1899), and we exerted control over various islands during and after World War II....

                                    The word “tiki” traces to New Zealand and the Marquesas Islands. It refers to sacred images of gods and creation....

                                    By the late 1960s, during its decline, a politically more progressive generation of Americans saw tiki as retrograde or worse.

                                    “What once seemed charming and naive about island peoples and cultures,” [Martin] Cate writes in "Smuggler’s Cove: Exotic Cocktails, Rum, and the Cult of Tiki," 'now seemed, to a generation raised in a more globally aware world, to be at best patronizing or inauthentic, and at worst simply racist.'"



                                    For those who want to get a deeper sense of the Hawaiian point of view on the appropriation of their lands and culture by white colonialism, I can recommend:

                                    Chan, Gaye, Waikiki: A History of Forgetting & Remembering

                                    Daws, Gavin, The Shoals of Time: A History of the Hawaiian Islands

                                    Silva, Noenoe, Aloha Betrayed: Native Hawaiian Resistance to American Colonialism*

                                    Trask, Haunani-Kay, Light in the Crevice Never Seen


                                    *If you only read one of these books, it should be the Silva.
                                    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 06-25-2020, 09:30 PM.
                                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                                    - Walt Disney

                                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                    - Michael Eisner

                                    "It's very symbiotic."
                                    - Bob Chapek

                                    Comment


                                    • #20
                                      Originally posted by Mike_M View Post
                                      I’m not jumping on the ‘completely change this ride next’ bandwagon yet, but honestly, all that would even need to change is just the village scene and Trader Sam, both of which are at the end. Replace the villagers with more animals (could easily be an abandoned village) and pull Trader Sam.
                                      Done.

                                      The bulk of the ride is fine as-is and I think that any change there would be less impactful than Splash Mountain’s change.
                                      Exactly.

                                      Originally posted by SkunkID View Post

                                      Similar to what have said about JC, it wouldn't be TOO hard to "fix tiki. The easiest thing would be, as others have pointed out, go the Moana direction. That's not to say, make it based around Moana, though I doubt many people would put up too much of a fus to a wink and a nod to Moai, especially if they could get the rock to just to a small voice bit. But the easiest option would literally just consult people from those actual cultures, to mostly drop really cringey stuff, and insert others. From my understanding of comments from people of Polenesian background, the bulk of the issue seems to be, not just the kitchiness of it, but just kind of how "white washed" the efforts to pay lip service to the actual cultures come across. It could be as simple as, actually explain some of meaning behind things being shown? Like the tiki gods in the queue currently do. I doubt most people have issue with the "dumb but fun" stuff like the birb-mobile.
                                      A good example of this is with the video that they play in the lanai before the pre-show begins. They updated it a few years back and it was incredibly dated. If I'm not mistaken, the new video is much more tasteful and more accurately depicts Polynesian culture and history. If Disney maintained this same spirit (similar to how they did when building Aulani), then consulting cultural liaisons on how to tastefully include the material would be an excellent way to do it.

                                      Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                                      So like American Italian food? Look out Dominos you’re next.

                                      Honestly I hope for a somewhat balanced approach, but I know that won’t happen. In America currently you’re either way left or way right or you’re wrong.

                                      like said here already, I’m all for just taking out the indigenous scenes in jungle cruise. While they do somewhat create an honest depiction of indigenous African headhunters (which are real and look generally like their ride counterparts) they are not an entire ride or major part of the ride...a pretty easy fix if people truly find them genuinely problematic. Same could be done for the tiki room, re-cast the song with appropriate ethnicities and keep much of the original attraction the same. Sadly I doubt this will be the case in both examples. It is more likely that Disney will swing the Intellectual Property hammer and retheme the Jungle cruise to the rock movie that will age about as well as Eddie Murphy’s haunted mansion...and of course shoe horn in Moana into one of the few beloved old favorites to “modern it up”.
                                      I'm really hoping Jungle Cruise doesn't get the Rock... I would love for the balanced approach you're advocating. Disney is always one for surprising me, though, and frankly hasn't really met my expectations for a lot of rides.

                                      I envisioned a Tiki Room revamp that just re-records Jose's lines and is a bit more culturally sensitive. But otherwise, I would love to see technology where the birds in the Tiki Room can actually fly. Disney could totally adapt technology like this, this, or this. I know it's not likely, but I'll get my hopes up anyway.

                                      Comment

                                      Get Away Today Footer

                                      Collapse
                                      Working...
                                      X