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  • Disney can use UV light to disinfect indoor air

    There is a low chance of virus transmission outdoors, provided that everyone is using a face-covering and keeping physically-distanced.

    However, the indoors seems to present larger problems, especially in terms of potential aerosol-based (i.e., due to it hanging in the air, rather than falling on the ground) transmission. This is because aerosols don't disperse as much in enclosed spaces.

    Hospitals and other places have long used UV light, e.g., inside air ducts, to disinfect recirculating indoor air. There has been a (small) resurgence of interest in the broader use of UV light for this purpose, which you can read about here.

    There has been a little bit of discussion in parts of the theme park / museum industry about whether UV light inside air ducts would be feasible. The main downside is that installing/maintaining lights inside air ducts would be expensive - but not prohibitively so, especially compared with many other expensive projects of various types. Hopefully this will get discussed (further?) at Disney, since it seems to have real potential, but we shall see...

  • #2
    Originally posted by md6379a View Post
    There is a low chance of virus transmission outdoors, provided that everyone is using a face-covering and keeping physically-distanced.

    However, the indoors seems to present larger problems, especially in terms of potential aerosol-based (i.e., due to it hanging in the air, rather than falling on the ground) transmission. This is because aerosols don't disperse as much in enclosed spaces.

    Hospitals and other places have long used UV light, e.g., inside air ducts, to disinfect recirculating indoor air. There has been a (small) resurgence of interest in the broader use of UV light for this purpose, which you can read about here.

    There has been a little bit of discussion in parts of the theme park / museum industry about whether UV light inside air ducts would be feasible. The main downside is that installing/maintaining lights inside air ducts would be expensive - but not prohibitively so, especially compared with many other expensive projects of various types. Hopefully this will get discussed (further?) at Disney, since it seems to have real potential, but we shall see...
    OP
    You ask good questions......for I been reading about UV light ,on the News Report.......
    I think,
    it is a matter money.....and other FactSet.
    But still a good question to ask !

    Soaring like an EAGLE !

    Comment


    • #3
      I was actually under the impression that Disney was already using UV air scrubbing after their incidents of legionnaire's disease at the hotels?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SkunkID View Post
        I was actually under the impression that Disney was already using UV air scrubbing after their incidents of legionnaire's disease at the hotels?
        That would be good to know. I haven't heard that before; do you remember where you heard it?

        Also, I thought those incidents were at a park, is that incorrect?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by md6379a View Post
          ...Also, I thought those incidents were at a park, is that incorrect?
          You're correct, it was at Disneyland Park.

          A Legionnaire’s Christmas for Disneyland

          DL cooling tower likely source of all 22 Legionnaires' cases, official testifies

          Cal-OSHA: Disney didn't properly clean cooling towers linked to Legionnaires outbreak
          "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
          it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
          together with every variety of recreation and fun,
          designed to appeal to everyone."

          - Walt Disney

          "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
          - Michael Eisner

          "It's very symbiotic."
          - Bob Chapek

          Comment


          • #6
            IMO
            Disney did not use - UV air scrubbing ....
            Less, I did not read about UV on the NEWS- I think all they did is , properly clean cooling towers
            after OSHA got after them.
            Soaring like an EAGLE !

            Comment


            • #7
              The problem with using UV to kill viruses is that you need to expose the viruses to the UV light.

              To do so, you'll need to move the air past the light and in doing so, you'll expose everyone who is in the flow except the person closest to the intake duct.

              One way around this is to have a slotted floor be the intake and the treated air descends from the ceiling. If it were practicable to do so then Disney would be heroes, but given the cost to modify existing infrastructure.........

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by micromind View Post
                The problem with using UV to kill viruses is that you need to expose the viruses to the UV light.

                To do so, you'll need to move the air past the light and in doing so, you'll expose everyone who is in the flow except the person closest to the intake duct.

                One way around this is to have a slotted floor be the intake and the treated air descends from the ceiling. If it were practicable to do so then Disney would be heroes, but given the cost to modify existing infrastructure.........
                Your the Man........I wanted to hear from.........on this topic!
                You would know better.....because of the line of work you do.
                Soaring like an EAGLE !

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by micromind View Post
                  The problem with using UV to kill viruses is that you need to expose the viruses to the UV light.

                  To do so, you'll need to move the air past the light and in doing so, you'll expose everyone who is in the flow except the person closest to the intake duct.

                  One way around this is to have a slotted floor be the intake and the treated air descends from the ceiling. If it were practicable to do so then Disney would be heroes, but given the cost to modify existing infrastructure.........
                  Thanks for posting!

                  Can you tell us more about what's wrong with just having UV-C "scrubbers" in air ducts the way some hospitals do (as described in my original post)? Here is another description of them.

                  There is already air flowing through the air ducts / HVAC systems, so adding the UV-C lights would not create additional airflow, it would only disinfect the air that's already flowing.

                  Or, did you just mean that what you've described would be even better?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by md6379a View Post

                    Thanks for posting!

                    Can you tell us more about what's wrong with just having UV-C "scrubbers" in air ducts the way some hospitals do (as described in my original post)? Here is another description of them.

                    There is already air flowing through the air ducts / HVAC systems, so adding the UV-C lights would not create additional airflow, it would only disinfect the air that's already flowing.

                    Or, did you just mean that what you've described would be even better?
                    HVAC (Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning) systems at places like hospitals are designed from the original installation to direct airflow so the fewest possible people are affected by any germs or viruses in the room. HVAC systems at places like DL are designed to provide for the simplest and least expensive installation and maintenance.......well, a lot of them are......lol.

                    The vertical airflow systems are by far the most effective, you'd need to be very close to an infected person in order to transmit any viruses but they are also by far, the most expensive. I've seen a few of these in computer rooms where horizontal airflow would transfer heat from one device to another but vertical (in this case, up-flow) does not affect adjacent devices.

                    But yes, adding UV to existing systems would indeed reduce the number of viruses but the actual reality is there are not all that many HVAC systems at DL. At least not in public places.

                    It would be nearly impossible to kill all viruses where guests are, they could only cut back on them inside of buildings. Near as I can tell, it takes only one virus to infect a person but I could easily be wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by micromind View Post

                      HVAC (Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning) systems at places like hospitals are designed from the original installation to direct airflow so the fewest possible people are affected by any germs or viruses in the room. HVAC systems at places like DL are designed to provide for the simplest and least expensive installation and maintenance.......well, a lot of them are......lol.

                      The vertical airflow systems are by far the most effective, you'd need to be very close to an infected person in order to transmit any viruses but they are also by far, the most expensive. I've seen a few of these in computer rooms where horizontal airflow would transfer heat from one device to another but vertical (in this case, up-flow) does not affect adjacent devices.

                      But yes, adding UV to existing systems would indeed reduce the number of viruses but the actual reality is there are not all that many HVAC systems at DL. At least not in public places.

                      It would be nearly impossible to kill all viruses where guests are, they could only cut back on them inside of buildings. Near as I can tell, it takes only one virus to infect a person but I could easily be wrong.
                      Well
                      I learn more tonight about HVAC and UV
                      from micromind 101 class
                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As long as we're discussing UV light, a word of caution ........UV light is purple in color, if you should notice purple light coming from a fluorescent tube (usually, there are others as well), don't look at it. It'll burn you eyes out.

                        Seriously, the wavelength of UV will damage your optic nerve, much the same as staring at the sun or watching someone arc welding.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by micromind View Post
                          As long as we're discussing UV light, a word of caution ........UV light is purple in color, if you should notice purple light coming from a fluorescent tube (usually, there are others as well), don't look at it. It'll burn you eyes out.

                          Seriously, the wavelength of UV will damage your optic nerve, much the same as staring at the sun or watching someone arc welding.
                          Again-I learn something new.......Thanks
                          Good safety tip to know !
                          Soaring like an EAGLE !

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by micromind View Post
                            It would be nearly impossible to kill all viruses where guests are, they could only cut back on them inside of buildings. Near as I can tell, it takes only one virus to infect a person but I could easily be wrong.
                            Thanks for the informative explanation of HVAC systems. Like Eagleman said, that was very helpful!

                            Regarding your question that I've quoted above: One of the things that I think there hasn't been enough communication to the public about is what's called viral load. That's more-or-less referring to the amount of virus in a given quantity of fluid. Basically, if I understand correctly, a single virus is unlikely to do anything, but the more viruses you ingest, the greater the severity of the illness (it's not an exact correlation, though). That is one of the reasons why being outdoors is better (you breathe in fewer viruses because the wind blows them, etc), and that is one of the reasons why masks protect the people whom wearer is facing / talking to (fewer viruses get blown directly at the person you're facing / talking to if you're wearing a mask, since the air you breathe out doesn't all go in the same direction), etc. So, my understanding is that killing a percentage of the viruses in air via UV-C could reduce the number of people who become ill, and also reduce the severity for those who do become ill.

                            Unfortunately, if you're correct that there isn't much HVAC to do this with, that would be a shame. I thought all those air-blowing vents you see, e.g., in all the queues, etc., are part of the air circulation system. But I guess they only circulate a small percentage of the air?

                            Re UV light: Yeah, I've read about how it's dangerous to look into UV light, and so I've always wondered about attractions that use lots of UV light, e.g., IJA and Toad. Does anybody know if those lights use a less dangerous part of the UV "sub-spectrum" or something?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree, cutting back on the number of viruses would certainly cut back on the chances of becoming infected and if they were to treat the air circulated in the queues, it would help. But DL is still mostly an oped-air place, it'd be next to impossible to treat atmospheric air.

                              UV light is bad only if you look directly at the source, if it's reflected it isn't harmful. I've seen plenty of UV light effects at DL but never been able to look directly at the source. They're pretty careful about using UV only for indirect effects lighting.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by micromind View Post

                                UV light is bad only if you look directly at the source, if it's reflected it isn't harmful. I've seen plenty of UV light effects at DL but never been able to look directly at the source. They're pretty careful about using UV only for indirect effects lighting.
                                It is important to remember that in the case of UV light used for sanitation, it differs from "show lighting." Yes, both aren't good if you choose to look directly at them, as they can damage the retina and burn the cornia and whites of the eyes. But showlighting is "usually" the portion of the UV spectrum that humans can see, which is a very small section that overlaps with violet in the visable light spectrum. I'm not a MD, but to my understanding, this restricted section that we can see is "less" harmful that the spectrum used for sanitization, which is much more intense, largely invisible to humans, but is much more effective at producing energic, ionizing radiation that damages the RNA of viruses, thus killing them, or making them "harmless" (viruses are weird, they're technically not "alive" in biological terms, almost like bio machines compared to living cells like the ones in our bodies, bacteria, fungi, etc. But the UV radiation is enough to destroy their viral RNA, and usually damages the virus structurally so it is effectively "dead").

                                Another way to explain it is, remember, alot of the showlighting from the "old days" was literally just lightbulbs coated in gel paint that filters out all visable light except the visable UV light. UV light is present in all lighting to an extent, and while yes, modern florescent UV lights and LED lights do produce a "more pure" form of UV light, the amount is "largely" harmless as long as you aren't looking at it directly for long periods of time. In comparison, the UV lights in sanitizing HVAC systems are usually sealed inside aluminum so you really can't get in contact with it while it's operating. I can't say exactly how safety is maintained in units that are meant to passed over surfaces, say for avoiding them when in use.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by micromind View Post
                                  I agree, cutting back on the number of viruses would certainly cut back on the chances of becoming infected and if they were to treat the air circulated in the queues, it would help. But DL is still mostly an oped-air place, it'd be next to impossible to treat atmospheric air.
                                  Right, outdoors the risk of transmission is much lower, so indoor spaces are where the air treatment would be really beneficial.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by micromind View Post
                                    I agree, cutting back on the number of viruses would certainly cut back on the chances of becoming infected and if they were to treat the air circulated in the queues, it would help. But DL is still mostly an oped-air place, it'd be next to impossible to treat atmospheric air.

                                    UV light is bad only if you look directly at the source, if it's reflected it isn't harmful. I've seen plenty of UV light effects at DL but never been able to look directly at the source. They're pretty careful about using UV only for indirect effects lighting.
                                    You know Micromind
                                    I was thinking what you was sharing......about lighting
                                    I have some fans at home, that works good for there use,
                                    But at night some they have BLUE lights , and some reason it Bugs me.......specially in the dark
                                    I wonder what you been saying have do with the indirect effects ? ((()))

                                    I cover them with paper/cardboard-like, I said the blue lights bugs me.....
                                    Red or Green I ok with , it just Blue lights

                                    Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                    Comment

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