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Galaxy’s Edge CMs at Disneyland Being Laid Off Due to Non-Transferable Seniority

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  • Eagleman
    replied
    Originally posted by Westsider View Post
    Here's the deal -

    This is the way the union contracts have always been written in Anaheim for decades.
    Thanks for the info

    This also hold true with a lot's of Big Business and Union's
    There company seniority and there union seniority
    Last edited by Eagleman; 10-22-2020, 08:37 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Westsider
    replied
    Here's the deal -

    This is the way the union contracts have always been written in Anaheim for decades. This was always the risk by transferring from one park to another - you had to transfer to a different union contract and you lost your seniority. It was always risky cause you didn't know if the predictions about big crowds and lots of hours would pan out, whether you were going to Cars Land which was a huge hit or you were going to SW:GE that was a big flop.

    The top manager in charge of SW:GE in 2019 was the same woman who opened Cars Land Attractions in 2012. All the CM's love her - she's tough but fair and a lot of fun and she demands the same from her team. I personally knew over a dozen Disneyland Attractions CM's who gave up their seniority in Disneyland to go open Cars Land and they loved it there because of the team they got to work with. You can't put a price on having fun at work and having good managers who have your back.

    I personally know Cars Land Attractions CM's who transferred (or transferred back) to Disneyland to open SW:GE because of their Cars Land experience. But then the unthinkable happened and Disneyland closed for a year or more. And there's not a thing that can be done because that's exactly how the Master Services union contracts have been written about transfer seniority for decades. No one from management or the union could have ever seen this scenario playing out - Disneyland closed for a year and massive layoffs of hourly CM's. But the union contract - a legally binding agreement - lays out who gets laid off if layoffs happen. And the lowest seniority people get laid off first.

    Attraction layoffs have never happened before - not in 65 years. The layoff process and seniority rules were written into the contract only as a legal clause that no one ever thought could happen. But then it did.

    This isn't just a problem with Attractions CMs or SW:GE. This same seniority layoff concept swept thru the hotels a few weeks ago. Each restaurant and dining location and CM assignment like room service was given their own union contract and the unions liked it that way because it gave them more leverage. But now they are permanently closing Steakhouse 55, PCH Grill, PPH room service, etc. And all of those CM's were laid off regardless of seniority. But they are keeping Napa Rose and Storytellers open and those CM's are still employed. So even if you were a waiter at Napa Rose with only 3 years of seniority you kept your job, but the waiter at Steakhouse 55 with 15 years or 25 years of seniority was just laid off this month.

    In hindsight - the hotel dining teams should have had a joint union contract that would have laid off by seniority across the entire division instead of by individual locations. So that way the waiter with 3 years seniority at Napa Rose got laid off but the waiter with 15 years of seniority at Steakhouse 55 was retained as a CM and simply moved over to work at Napa Rose once it reopens.

    The whole thing is a mess. Security also fired nearly all of their low seniority CM's & only the old timers are left in Security.

    I dont know that you can blame any one management strategy or any one union contract that was purposely created by the unions themselves. No one could have predicted this. But going forward - this is going to rewire and rewrite any future union contracts. A lot of highly tenured CM's are now gone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Originally posted by jsmith11618 View Post
    This type of situation happens in unionized workforces, usually not the companies fault just how different unions and contracts tend to work.

    Was this a decision Disney specifically made or was it just how it has to be due to the unions and contracts?

    It does suck, happened to me in the airline industry, I transferred departments a couple times, with each transfer lost my seniority for most things since different departments had different unions and contracts, all that mattered at lay off time, was time in department or position, not time with company.
    You got it.....your right .....different is unions and contracts tend to work.
    This type of situation happens in unionized workforces !
    I agree it sucks.......

    Leave a comment:


  • CM.X777
    replied
    Originally posted by Mom kissed Walt View Post
    In times like these wouldn’t it make the most sense to hang onto those that were willing to take a chance on something new? They’ll need that. Honestly this makes no sense.
    That because it's all about seniority. Seniority is the most fair way to do it vs a who wants it more kind of thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mom kissed Walt
    replied
    In times like these wouldn’t it make the most sense to hang onto those that were willing to take a chance on something new? They’ll need that. Honestly this makes no sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • whiteness
    replied
    I have to be careful what I say here, but but comparing how things are doing in Florida to California, if I was a CM I might be pondering the fairness of the decisions that have been made and the folks empowered to make them. It must feel like being a mouse cowering underfoot while elephants fight. They are just getting stomped on without a second thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • CM.X777
    replied
    Originally posted by _Bluebird View Post

    Everyone knew the risks of losing seniority to come over, but at the time the land seemed too big to fail, so I don't think anybody really cared. Management also promised us an obscene amount of hours, which made seniority seem irrelevant anyways. I don't think anyone that transferred from DCA really considered that the land could underperform in the way it did, or that a pandemic would cripple the entire industry in the way it did. I mean, of course the risk is always there, but when Disney just spent $1 billion on a new land, with another one being built at DCA, why would anyone fear losing their job? There was no way to know beforehand.

    Also, just to be clear, loss of seniority isn't a "demotion". A lot of transfers do the same thing, like going from part-time to full-time or going between departments. The only benefit we lost was scheduling preference. I do think it is an issue that switching parks resets your seniority, especially since you aren't switching line of business or part/full-time status.

    The whole situation just sucks. The company is losing a lot of really passionate CMs, and I knew quite a few of them aren't planning on coming back because of how everything with SWGE went down.

    This ^^^ No one is SWGE could have foreseen what was going to happen. Hell things there were starting to turn around with Rise open, but then Covid F-ed everything up. Most hourly CMs never had to worry about layoffs before, because Disney didn't lay people off. They would just implement hiring freezes and left natural attrition reduce the cast size.




    Originally posted by jsmith11618 View Post
    This type of situation happens in unionized workforces, usually not the companies fault just how different unions and contracts tend to work.

    Was this a decision Disney specifically made or was it just how it has to be due to the unions and contracts?

    It does suck, happened to me in the airline industry, I transferred departments a couple times, with each transfer lost my seniority for most things since different departments had different unions and contracts, all that mattered at lay off time, was time in department or position, not time with company.


    It was a negotiation between Disney and the Unions. Since Masters Services Contract acts as an umbrella for several union contracts, they decided to go with scheduling seniority (over company seniority) because it has the most consistent language amongst the different Union contracts.

    A Union pro is Union cast have recall rights, and those recall rights have been extended to 24 months.

    Leave a comment:


  • jsmith11618
    replied
    This type of situation happens in unionized workforces, usually not the companies fault just how different unions and contracts tend to work.

    Was this a decision Disney specifically made or was it just how it has to be due to the unions and contracts?

    It does suck, happened to me in the airline industry, I transferred departments a couple times, with each transfer lost my seniority for most things since different departments had different unions and contracts, all that mattered at lay off time, was time in department or position, not time with company.

    Leave a comment:


  • _Bluebird
    replied
    Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post

    This is what I wonder as well. Were they really informed of the actual risks in regards to such a move? I guess we'll never know for sure, but the whole tragedy of the situation just adds to the series of calamities that have hit the parks this year.
    Everyone knew the risks of losing seniority to come over, but at the time the land seemed too big to fail, so I don't think anybody really cared. Management also promised us an obscene amount of hours, which made seniority seem irrelevant anyways. I don't think anyone that transferred from DCA really considered that the land could underperform in the way it did, or that a pandemic would cripple the entire industry in the way it did. I mean, of course the risk is always there, but when Disney just spent $1 billion on a new land, with another one being built at DCA, why would anyone fear losing their job? There was no way to know beforehand.

    Also, just to be clear, loss of seniority isn't a "demotion". A lot of transfers do the same thing, like going from part-time to full-time or going between departments. The only benefit we lost was scheduling preference. I do think it is an issue that switching parks resets your seniority, especially since you aren't switching line of business or part/full-time status.

    The whole situation just sucks. The company is losing a lot of really passionate CMs, and I knew quite a few of them aren't planning on coming back because of how everything with SWGE went down.

    Leave a comment:


  • JerrodDRagon
    replied
    This is a joke...you ask your BEST CM's to come to a new team and they are stripped of the years of service before it?

    What a joke, Disney did bad on this one

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post

    Were they really informed of the actual risks in regards to such a move? I guess we'll never know for sure, but the whole tragedy of the situation just adds to the series of calamities that have hit the parks this year.
    I know for a fact......and
    This type situation, with unions /big company's ...has happen .......
    The unions should have told the CM's actual risks!
    Going from union to another mess up your seniority !!!
    There company seniority and there union seniority...and they not always the same.........
    Last edited by Eagleman; 10-21-2020, 10:38 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Golden Zephyr
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post

    I think this is one of those special cases where the California Adventure and Disneyland unions muddied the water, and put CM's with superiority in a bad place.

    I feel like this demotion should have been HIGHLY discouraged. For instance, at my current job, I am highly discouraged from considering jobs where I would be paid a lower salary or lose benefits based on my current skillset and experience within the company. I hope Disney and the unions at least did that. If not, it's extremely irresponsible. I feel sorry for the CM's that clocked so many years of hard work only to be let go in this manner.
    This is what I wonder as well. Were they really informed of the actual risks in regards to such a move? I guess we'll never know for sure, but the whole tragedy of the situation just adds to the series of calamities that have hit the parks this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    I hate the concept any worker losing jobs!
    But ,if layoff going happen with in the union
    Seniority dates should have been preserved.......IMO

    Cast Members really did to know ,what they doing ?
    If they belong to union ,also know need to know , what the contract say's.
    But again I do not trust - Disney Leadership
    Last edited by Eagleman; 10-21-2020, 06:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesser-pie
    replied
    Originally posted by whiteness View Post

    Yes, Galaxy's Edge is a major draw in Disney World. And the wonderful CMs that staff it are, in my opinion, a big part of that. It was my favorite land when I visited Hollywood Studios, but the "Marketplace" area did feel a bit crowded, which was a negative.

    Hang on: someone thinks I am a Star Wars guy that hates Galaxy's Edge...? That's so funny!
    Ohhhhh. Well egg on my face then! I am sorry. I see what you are saying now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesser-pie
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post

    I think this is one of those special cases where the California Adventure and Disneyland unions muddied the water, and put CM's with superiority in a bad place.

    I feel like this demotion should have been HIGHLY discouraged. For instance, at my current job, I am restricted from considering jobs where I would be paid a lower salary or lose benefits based on my current skillset and experience within the company. I hope Disney and the unions at least did that. If not, it's extremely irresponsible. I feel sorry for the CM's that clocked so many years of hard work only to be let go in this manner.
    That I absolutely agree with. From what I understand, the keeping the hours benefit really masked what was being lost and falsely assured those to take it. This is all on Disney management. They SHOULD have at least explained what seniority loss could mean in an unexpected event.

    I also don’t think this mass lay-off is Disney’s only option unless we pretend to live in a false dichotomy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sun Bonnet
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post

    I think this is one of those special cases where the California Adventure and Disneyland unions muddied the water, and put CM's with superiority in a bad place.

    I feel like this demotion should have been HIGHLY discouraged. For instance, at my current job, I am highly discouraged from considering jobs where I would be paid a lower salary or lose benefits based on my current skillset and experience within the company. I hope Disney and the unions at least did that. If not, it's extremely irresponsible. I feel sorry for the CM's that clocked so many years of hard work only to be let go in this manner.
    Some job sites don't allow members of one union to change jobs to another union class where pay or required skillset would be less, out of fairness to workers from both groups. However, in this case, it seems the Galaxy's Edge job was a lateral transfer of some of the best CMs in the park. Their seniority dates should have been preserved. It's tragic that that wasn't the case.

    Leave a comment:


  • whiteness
    replied
    Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post
    Also it is interesting that the same land that apparently failed and is now being partially blamed for CMs job loss is the reason Hollywood Studios in Florida is the only park that is fully booked some days.

    It proves that they don’t care about the CMs. They only want people to know that they don’t like Star Wars land.
    Yes, Galaxy's Edge is a major draw in Disney World. And the wonderful CMs that staff it are, in my opinion, a big part of that. It was my favorite land when I visited Hollywood Studios, but the "Marketplace" area did feel a bit crowded, which was a negative.

    Hang on: someone thinks I am a Star Wars guy that hates Galaxy's Edge...? That's so funny!

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Andy
    replied
    Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post
    Also it is interesting that the same land that apparently failed and is now being partially blamed for CMs job loss is the reason Hollywood Studios in Florida is the only park that is fully booked some days.

    It proves that they don’t care about the CMs. They only want people to know that they don’t like Star Wars land.
    I think this is one of those special cases where the California Adventure and Disneyland unions muddied the water, and put CM's with superiority in a bad place.

    I feel like this demotion should have been HIGHLY discouraged. For instance, at my current job, I am highly discouraged from considering jobs where I would be paid a lower salary or lose benefits based on my current skillset and experience within the company. I hope Disney and the unions at least did that. If not, it's extremely irresponsible. I feel sorry for the CM's that clocked so many years of hard work only to be let go in this manner.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesser-pie
    replied
    Also it is interesting that the same land that apparently failed and is now being partially blamed for CMs job loss is the reason Hollywood Studios in Florida is the only park that is fully booked some days.

    It proves that they don’t care about the CMs. They only want people to know that they don’t like Star Wars land.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Wiggins
    replied
    From the transcript of Chapek's video about Star Wars Land:

    "It’s interesting, we have eleven one-billion-dollar-or-more consumer products franchises in terms of retail sales. Eleven of ‘em....

    Look, we’ve got the wealth of riches. We’ve got an embarrassment of riches....


    One of my favorite things – it’s actually a soft programming thing, it’s not an imaginary thing – it’s the cast. Because I don’t know if you’ve figured this out yet, but each cast member was asked to come up with their own backstory – why they’re here, what their origin is, what their problem is. So each cast member has created their own story. So that adds yet another dimension. Because everything we’ve talked about so far is really all about the land, right? And the programming of the land. But when you talk to the cast, you get all these different layers. And to me, that’s really what takes this – as always, it’s always about the cast, right? – they take it over the top."

    Leave a comment:

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