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  • #41
    Ah, I was so happy to read the news this morning and have this be the most controversial thing so far.

    I am fine with getting rid of the stereotypes, but I was disturbed by this line from cnn's report:

    "In a press release, Disney confirmed the ride's upcoming overhaul. Among the changes will be a new animated skipper character."
    https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/d...rnd/index.html

    New animated skipper character? WTF?

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by brian11811 View Post
      Ah, I was so happy to read the news this morning and have this be the most controversial thing so far.

      I am fine with getting rid of the stereotypes, but I was disturbed by this line from cnn's report:

      "In a press release, Disney confirmed the ride's upcoming overhaul. Among the changes will be a new animated skipper character."
      https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/d...rnd/index.html

      New animated skipper character? WTF?

      I'm wondering if this will replace the 'Trader Sam' character near the end of the ride and give an 'exit' spiel of 'welcome back to the real jungle', etc etc jokes.


      I'm pretty much good with the removal of the outdated scenes. But as always will defer judgement until I know more. I do like the drawing of the 'monkey boat' scene. Wonder what that will replace?

      I'm remembering the safari/pole/rhino scene, Trader Sam, and the 'dancing group'. Am I missing anything else?
      "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

      Comment


      • #43
        Either way I feel its a win - win type of situation.

        Jungle Cruise has always been that one ride in the park that was just kind of there...not really dying to ride it and if we did ride it, it was more of a time waster until one of our FP were coming up. Either way...whenever we are allowed to visit the parks again, I will love every ride there, like its my first time and never take anything for granted!

        Comment


        • #44
          "...also reflect and value the diversity of the world around us."

          Yeah, it's going to suck. Sorry Walt, you tried.​​​​​​
          “Not the least hard thing to bear when they go from us, these quiet friends, is that they carry away with them so many years of our own lives.”

          DL Trips: '58, '59, '61, '65, '66, '67, '68x2, '69x2, '70x2, '71x2, '73x2, '74x2, '75x2, '76x2, '77, '78,x2, '79x2, '80x2, '81, '82, '83, '88, '89x3, '90x2, '91, '93, '94, '95x2, '96, '97, '98x4, '99, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07x2, '08, '09x2, '10, '11, '13
          WDW Trips: '81
          EPCOT Trips: '93
          Tokyo DL Trips: '86

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by stovk View Post
            "...also reflect and value the diversity of the world around us."

            Yeah, it's going to suck. Sorry Walt, you tried.​​​​​​
            Comments like this are why I’ve thrown out the ‘Disneyland isn’t a Museum’ arguments in the past.

            I get being resistant to, or skeptical of change, but why does this “suck” when you haven’t even seen or experienced the final product yet? For all we know, it could genuinely be better.

            The artwork looks to be celebrating Marc Davis’ themes and humor, not moving away from it. There has been specific mention from WDI that they are not adding characters from the upcoming film into the attraction.

            So far, this looks to be a positive improvement, not a destructive one.
            Mike_M

            Disneyland Trips
            Walt Disney World
            Disneyland Paris

            1980, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1989
            1990, 1992, 1993

            2000, 2001, 2006, 2007, 2009
            2010, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2016, 2017, 2/2019, 11/2019
            2020

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            • #46
              Monkey boat is funny, but isn't it redundant to the monkey camp scene? Not sure why that would be a problematic scene.
              "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money." - ​Walt Disney

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by greenalfonzo View Post
                Monkey boat is funny, but isn't it redundant to the monkey camp scene? Not sure why that would be a problematic scene.
                I'm trying to train myself to not presuppose too much of what could happen based on early concepts. I don't know how many attractions, movies, shows, etc. I thought were going to go one way and then being surprised when I actually saw the final product.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Co Foo View Post

                  I'm trying to train myself to not presuppose too much of what could happen based on early concepts. I don't know how many attractions, movies, shows, etc. I thought were going to go one way and then being surprised when I actually saw the final product.
                  That’s a fair statement
                  Mike_M

                  Disneyland Trips
                  Walt Disney World
                  Disneyland Paris

                  1980, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1989
                  1990, 1992, 1993

                  2000, 2001, 2006, 2007, 2009
                  2010, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2016, 2017, 2/2019, 11/2019
                  2020

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                  • #49
                    I'd love to know what fellow Skippers think of these changes. I wouldn't be surprised if they're more pleased with these changes than folks upset about "PC culture" or "not preserving Walt's vision".

                    Jungle Cruise isn't like other rides with pre-recorded narration or non narration at all. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, there seemed to be a growing trend of either ignoring the scenes or rushing through it as quickly as possible. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm sure plenty of Skippers (especially in recent years) feel completely uncomfortable having to discuss a scene involving African tribesmen who may cannibalize & decapitate you.

                    Yeah I'll probably get folks saying "then they shouldn't be working on this ride" if they're so sensitive about it, but you can be head over heels over something and still find questionable elements in it.

                    Times change and so does Disneyland. Hell, Trader Sam wasn't even in the original Jungle Cruise.
                    Last edited by jacob555; 01-26-2021, 02:24 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      I actually have see ,the final product.......Jungle Cruise
                      What ,I have read on the NEWS......it is about PC
                      I did not read any thing about the attraction ,being change because of a movie .

                      But ......as I share before........I Still Have My FEAR, the way today Disney is !
                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Mike_M View Post

                        Comments like this are why I’ve thrown out the ‘Disneyland isn’t a Museum’ arguments in the past.

                        I get being resistant to, or skeptical of change, but why does this “suck” when you haven’t even seen or experienced the final product yet? For all we know, it could genuinely be better.

                        The artwork looks to be celebrating Marc Davis’ themes and humor, not moving away from it. There has been specific mention from WDI that they are not adding characters from the upcoming film into the attraction.

                        So far, this looks to be a positive improvement, not a destructive one.
                        First, who said anything about a "Museum"? Just tossing that in for good measure?

                        Secondly, they need to stop "plussing" their Attractions to meet some Social Agenda, and just improve the Attractions for improvement's sake. Coming out with a Press Release that they are improving an Attraction to meet the Social Agenda du jour, is pathetic and pandering. All it does is add unnecessary negative attention. Just do it and be done with it. But this over emphasis that they are making the changes to be "more inclusive" and for "diversity" is pointless and shows Disney is incapable of making any changes to an Attraction unless their feet are held to the fire or out of fear by being targeted by some group.

                        This mea culpa for every change is tiresome. Make the change and let it stand on its own merits. Stop groveling for acceptance.
                        “Not the least hard thing to bear when they go from us, these quiet friends, is that they carry away with them so many years of our own lives.”

                        DL Trips: '58, '59, '61, '65, '66, '67, '68x2, '69x2, '70x2, '71x2, '73x2, '74x2, '75x2, '76x2, '77, '78,x2, '79x2, '80x2, '81, '82, '83, '88, '89x3, '90x2, '91, '93, '94, '95x2, '96, '97, '98x4, '99, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07x2, '08, '09x2, '10, '11, '13
                        WDW Trips: '81
                        EPCOT Trips: '93
                        Tokyo DL Trips: '86

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by stovk View Post

                          First, who said anything about a "Museum"? Just tossing that in for good measure?

                          Secondly, they need to stop "plussing" their Attractions to meet some Social Agenda, and just improve the Attractions for improvement's sake. Coming out with a Press Release that they are improving an Attraction to meet the Social Agenda du jour, is pathetic and pandering. All it does is add unnecessary negative attention. Just do it and be done with it. But this over emphasis that they are making the changes to be "more inclusive" and for "diversity" is pointless and shows Disney is incapable of making any changes to an Attraction unless their feet are held to the fire or out of fear by being targeted by some group.

                          This mea culpa for every change is tiresome. Make the change and let it stand on its own merits. Stop groveling for acceptance.
                          I use the museum jab to point out that whenever a change is announced, no matter how it’s announced, certain comments like yours start flying that instantly denounce the change without any regard for the potential that it might be good. Your ‘Sucks’ comment was jumping to the conclusion that because it’s a change, it will automatically be bad and things should just stay as they are. Just because you didn’t use the word ‘museum’, doesn’t mean you weren’t implying it. I stand by my reply to that.

                          The Disney Blog that I linked to in my original post, has a small blurb at the end about making the ride more inclusive, but the overall message wasn’t ‘hey! look at us! we’re making a change to be more PC!’ It was focused on the themes they were enhancing and how they were finding new humor that stays true to the Marc Davis style we all love about it already.

                          IMO, Getting hung up on why they are changing is ultimately a waste of time. If Disney wants to be a more inclusive company and adjust their product to reflect that, what’s the big problem with doing so? Their reason for change shouldn’t make a difference. All that matters is that whatever they change should be as good, if not better than what came before.

                          So long as that happens, none of this rancor matters.
                          Mike_M

                          Disneyland Trips
                          Walt Disney World
                          Disneyland Paris

                          1980, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1989
                          1990, 1992, 1993

                          2000, 2001, 2006, 2007, 2009
                          2010, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2016, 2017, 2/2019, 11/2019
                          2020

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            People complaining about "social agendas" and "PC" are themselves engaged in arguing for a different "social agenda" and political correctness of their own. So if this is the criticism, personally I find it very childish.

                            ​​​​​​Head hunters aren't even African! The inclusion of this bit is not accurate in any way, shape, or form.

                            Just step back and think about the fit some of y'all are throwing over Disney wanting to make their parks appeal to a wider audience. It's less "PC" and more "Disney is an international company with a global audience."

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by JLee1226 View Post
                              People complaining about "social agendas" and "PC" are themselves engaged in arguing for a different "social agenda" and political correctness of their own. So if this is the criticism, personally I find it very childish.

                              ​​​​​​Head hunters aren't even African! The inclusion of this bit is not accurate in any way, shape, or form.

                              Just step back and think about the fit some of y'all are throwing over Disney wanting to make their parks appeal to a wider audience. It's less "PC" and more "Disney is an international company with a global audience."
                              Who's throwing a fit?
                              We need another Walt...and fast!

                              "It's always more difficult to recover than it is to do the right thing at the beginning" - Tony Baxter,
                              The Imagineering Story, Episode 4 "Hit or Miss"

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Laugh-O-Grams View Post

                                Who's throwing a fit?
                                The folks complaining about "PC."

                                Misreading the LA Times article by attributing quotes to the author, to then cast aspersions on the writer? Silly.

                                When being "offended" is your bread and butter, it becomes an involuntary reaction.
                                Says someone who is definitely not offended and posting about how not offended they are in two different threads.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Mike_M View Post
                                  I use the museum jab to point out that whenever a change is announced, no matter how it’s announced, certain comments like yours start flying that instantly denounce the change without any regard for the potential that it might be good.
                                  Only because of their poor track record, IMO, am I skeptical. When they start tinkering with things, we either lose something (Court of Angels, Waterfalls of the Disneyland Hotel, Big Thunder Ranch, Benches...) or it's replaced with an inferior product (Guardians of the Galaxy, Rocket Rods, Tahitian Terrace, Soarin' Over California, SWGE...)

                                  Originally posted by Mike_M View Post
                                  Just because you didn’t use the word ‘museum’, doesn’t mean you weren’t implying it. I stand by my reply to that.
                                  Okay Wolf Messing.

                                  Originally posted by Mike_M View Post
                                  The Disney Blog that I linked to in my original post, has a small blurb at the end about making the ride more inclusive, but the overall message wasn’t ‘hey! look at us! we’re making a change to be more PC!’
                                  Au contraire. Just about every Attraction of late that has had an upgrade, was due to bring it in line to be more "acceptable" and has been regaled by Disney PR as such. Which is my point of, "why?". That is fine if they want to make the change, just make it better. Like I said, I didn't like the Headhunters either. But, just make the change and taught the enhancements. Who cares if you are being sensitive to XYZ or somehow righting some wrong? Just enhance it, do it well, and be done with it. But no, Disney has to make sure they get approval from whatever sub-group they have offended. It's as if they feel a need to flail their arms overhead and say, "Look! Look at us. We fixed our racist product." Hence my statement, "This mea culpa for every change is tiresome. Make the change and let it stand on its own merits. Stop groveling for acceptance." It's as if they are admitting that they intentionally built offensive and racist products. I know that's not true and so do a whole lot of other people. But by their actions, they stir up unwarranted, negative criticism. Heaven knows, they already have a full plate of negativity, why invite more?

                                  Originally posted by Mike_M View Post
                                  If Disney wants to be a more inclusive company and adjust their product to reflect that, what’s the big problem with doing so?
                                  See, and here you fell into the trap. You might as well say, "Well it's about time that the bigoted, racist Disney fell in line. How dare they get away all these years foisting their White Colonial views on the rest of the world."

                                  Whereas I think to myself, "It was a different time and a different world."

                                  Do the change, don't do it on the cheap, and make it "purdy". No need to justify it and admit to something that isn't true. Because in the end, all this focus on what is "insensitive" just cements the idea that Disneyland was built on racism. Look how we're still dealing with the lies that Walt was a racist and a misogynist.

                                  “Not the least hard thing to bear when they go from us, these quiet friends, is that they carry away with them so many years of our own lives.”

                                  DL Trips: '58, '59, '61, '65, '66, '67, '68x2, '69x2, '70x2, '71x2, '73x2, '74x2, '75x2, '76x2, '77, '78,x2, '79x2, '80x2, '81, '82, '83, '88, '89x3, '90x2, '91, '93, '94, '95x2, '96, '97, '98x4, '99, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07x2, '08, '09x2, '10, '11, '13
                                  WDW Trips: '81
                                  EPCOT Trips: '93
                                  Tokyo DL Trips: '86

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by JLee1226 View Post

                                    The folks complaining about "PC."

                                    Misreading the LA Times article by attributing quotes to the author, to then cast aspersions on the writer? Silly.



                                    Says someone who is definitely not offended and posting about how not offended they are in two different threads.
                                    Your're getting your threads mixed up. But even still, I don't see anyone "throwing a fit".
                                    We need another Walt...and fast!

                                    "It's always more difficult to recover than it is to do the right thing at the beginning" - Tony Baxter,
                                    The Imagineering Story, Episode 4 "Hit or Miss"

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Mike_M View Post
                                      So long as that happens, none of this rancor matters.
                                      True. (Please don't screw it up) Didn't want to be accused of "throwing a fit."

                                      We need another Walt...and fast!

                                      "It's always more difficult to recover than it is to do the right thing at the beginning" - Tony Baxter,
                                      The Imagineering Story, Episode 4 "Hit or Miss"

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by stovk View Post
                                        Au contraire. Just about every Attraction of late that has had an upgrade, was due to bring it in line to be more "acceptable" and has been regaled by Disney PR as such. Which is my point of, "why?". That is fine if they want to make the change, just make it better. Like I said, I didn't like the Headhunters either. But, just make the change and taught the enhancements. Who cares if you are being sensitive to XYZ or somehow righting some wrong? Just enhance it, do it well, and be done with it. But no, Disney has to make sure they get approval from whatever sub-group they have offended. It's as if they feel a need to flail their arms overhead and say, "Look! Look at us. We fixed our racist product." Hence my statement, "This mea culpa for every change is tiresome. Make the change and let it stand on its own merits. Stop groveling for acceptance." It's as if they are admitting that they intentionally built offensive and racist products. I know that's not true and so do a whole lot of other people. But by their actions, they stir up unwarranted, negative criticism. Heaven knows, they already have a full plate of negativity, why invite more?
                                        Clearly some people care if Disney is not representing people fairly. If you don't care then that's fine, but obviously Disney is betting that more people do than don't. A quick scroll through this thread shows that there are more people who are supportive of the change for "PC" reasons than unsupportive for "anti-PC" reasons. I don't think we should take it for a given that this will generate disproportionately negative criticism.

                                        I get why people don't want to show native people as savage spearchuckers. I don't understand why there is pushback to these changes. I'm not really sure what principle this is standing on.
                                        Last edited by Co Foo; 01-27-2021, 10:00 AM.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by stovk View Post
                                          ...See, and here you fell into the trap. You might as well say, "Well it's about time that the bigoted, racist Disney fell in line. How dare they get away all these years foisting their White Colonial views on the rest of the world."

                                          Whereas I think to myself, "It was a different time and a different world."

                                          Do the change, don't do it on the cheap, and make it "purdy". No need to justify it and admit to something that isn't true. Because in the end, all this focus on what is "insensitive" just cements the idea that Disneyland was built on racism. Look how we're still dealing with the lies that Walt was a racist and a misogynist.
                                          I’ve already said this, but I’ll repeat. No one in here is saying Walt or any of the imagineers were racists.

                                          It was a different time and a different world.
                                          Just as today is a different time and a different world. You’re missing that second part.

                                          Your growing anger here makes it seem like you feel people are calling you a racist for having liked the old version of these attractions.

                                          That’s not the case either.

                                          I liked them too. I’d say that the majority of people here did. That doesn’t make us bad people, just naïve at the time. In our naivety, we all thought it was harmless fun. But as we grow and learn about not just ourselves, but the people around us, we see how damaging these kinds of caricatures are.

                                          Once we see it, we can’t un-see it. It needs to be fixed so that DL is a place for and represented by everyone, not just the privileged groups that exist in the top tier. Disney making these changes is not an attack against white people, it’s a change for everyone else.

                                          My only complaint with your position was your knee-jerk response to change at Disneyland by saying it’s all been bad and will continue to be so. Well there’s nothing I can say that will change your opinion of that. If you’re unable to even give them a chance anymore, that’s all on you. Just don’t expect everyone else to agree with that opinion.
                                          Last edited by Mike_M; 01-27-2021, 10:15 AM.
                                          Mike_M

                                          Disneyland Trips
                                          Walt Disney World
                                          Disneyland Paris

                                          1980, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1989
                                          1990, 1992, 1993

                                          2000, 2001, 2006, 2007, 2009
                                          2010, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2016, 2017, 2/2019, 11/2019
                                          2020

                                          Comment

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