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  • [Other] Retraining Disneyland's 4,500 Attractions CM's

    In the state of California the theme park industry is highly regulated by Cal-OSHA. Much of those regulations involve the training and regulatory tracking of those CM's training parameters - what is known as "job knowledge". An Attractions CM will have been trained and have job knowledge on two or three different attractions after they have worked at the park for a year. Usually a new hire will get trained on a second attraction shortly after their 120 day probation period is over. Higher seniority CM's will have job knowledge on three or four different attractions in the part of the park they are assigned to. CM's can be scheduled to work two or three attractions per week, and sometimes they get moved from one ride to another during the same day if staffing requires it.

    Per California state law and Cal-OSHA requirements, a CM's job knowledge expires if they haven't worked a specific attraction within one calendar year - so if you are trained on Indy and you haven't worked that ride in 10 months the scheduling system automatically starts scheduling you Indy shifts so that your job knowledge there doesn't expire. This helps the business run efficiently - and makes the most out of the investment in CM's.

    Disneyland closed on March 13th, 2020 - and all those attractions haven't operated since. If Attractions CM's do not return to property and work a shift at all of the attractions they have job knowledge at before March 12th, 2021 their job knowledge will expire. Once your job knowledge expires, a CM has to go through the full retraining on that location - including performing the written Knowledge Assesment test and the Performance Assesment test in front of a Lead at all staffed positions at that attraction.

    Get where this is going?--- Disneyland will need to retrain thousands of CM's at dozens of attractions before it can reopen for Guests. Unless they get all those CM's back on property and working at least one shift at a closed attraction before March 12th, 2021. And that's probably not gonna happen.

    The full training, regulated by Cal-OSHA, is the following for some attractions -
    - Racers, Space Mt., Indy, Incredicoaster is 5 8 Hour Days
    -Pirates, Mansion, Guardians, Splash, Small World, Midway Mania is 4 8 Hour Days
    -Luigi's, Mark Twain, Rafts is 3 8 Hour Days - or sometimes 3 and a half days.

    You get the idea. Assuming all DLR Attractions CM's lose their job knowledge on March 12th, 2021 - it's going to take many weeks to get a core group of CM's retrained at all the core attractions. You might have to just abandon low capacity rides that take 3 or 4 days to train like StorybookLand, Canoes, Subs, etc. for now. Focus on the E Tickets and the most popular smaller attractions - and forget about operating Golden Zephyr or Astro Orbiter for now.

    It's going to require a very long time and a very large operation to fully retrain and restaff the full complement of 45+ Attractions at DLR. It's monumental. And it's going to add considerable time to the calendar of reopening the parks once the state government allows DLR to reopen.

    This will be like opening a brand new park from scratch, like Shanghai Disneyland - and it's going to take a long time once they begin retraining everyone.


  • #2
    Originally posted by Westsider View Post
    ...Assuming all DLR Attractions CM's lose their job knowledge on March 12th, 2021 - it's going to take many weeks to get a core group of CM's retrained at all the core attractions....
    Yep. And longer if the necessary number of Training CMs and Leads aren't available for immediate re-hire.
    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
    designed to appeal to everyone."

    - Walt Disney

    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
    - Michael Eisner

    "It's very symbiotic."
    - Bob Chapek

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

      Yep. And longer if the necessary number of Training CMs and Leads aren't available for immediate re-hire.
      No kidding man!

      The logistics of training an entire crew for a new ride - like they did for Rise or MF:SR takes months.

      This should go faster because theoretically these CM's will have known and worked these rides back in 2020 and 2019. But you will still need to complete the entire formal training and follow the Training Flow that was filed with the state and Cal-OSHA.

      You could maybe shave a day off of a 3 day training, or even two days off of a ride that has a 5 or 6 day training.

      But the fact remains - it's going to take a long time to get even just the E Tickets retrained and restaffed for a 7 day weekly operation in both parks.

      Nothing like this has ever been attempted - because nothing like this has ever happened. The only comparable is opening a brand new theme park. But there you've only got 15 or so attractions to train in a brand new theme park like Shanghai, DAK, etc. For DLR you have two existing parks with the most attractions of any Disney theme park property in the world. There's about 45 attractions at DLR that are regulated by the state.

      This is not a problem in WDW - where there is no state oversight or regulatory environment. They can make up their own rules on training at WDW. Not so for DLR.

      It's gonna be a process measured in months - not weeks. This is a massive undertaking.

      Comment


      • #4
        Potentially Stupid Question: Could they hypothetically send someDL employees to WDW to be retrained, but only on the cloned rides(Small World, Buzz, Dumbo, etc.)? Or would it not count, as it's out of state?

        On a separate note, I don't think some low capacity rides should be immediately be written off, just yet. It's plausible that when the parks reopen, only outdoor rides may be allowed to be operated. And thus, they may need spinners like Dumbo or the ROA boats, to boost the number of attractions.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Spongeocto4 View Post
          Potentially Stupid Question: Could they hypothetically send someDL employees to WDW to be retrained, but only on the cloned rides(Small World, Buzz, Dumbo, etc.)? Or would it not count, as it's out of state?

          On a separate note, I don't think some low capacity rides should be immediately be written off, just yet. It's plausible that when the parks reopen, only outdoor rides may be allowed to be operated. And thus, they may need spinners like Dumbo or the ROA boats, to boost the number of attractions.
          No stupid questions man - none of this has been done before!

          But nah, they can't train DLR CM's on similar rides at WDW.

          The training has to cover stuff like emergency access doors, fire extinguisher placement, physical layout of attractions for evacuations and daily opening procedures, etc.

          Each KA and PA is performed at the actual location. You can't train a ride in WDW and say "In Anaheim, the unloading dock doesn't have this console here - it's over there. And the fire extinguisher in Anaheim is over there."

          Thats not to say you couldn't familiarize CM's with basic attraction operation by flying them out to WDW and letting them train at rides that are similar between the coasts. But the cost would be prohibitive - and it would just be cheaper to use the existing rides in DLR to retrain everyone.

          Comment


          • #6
            This over all news, is not surprising to me ,with regulated by Cal-OSHA/the State
            It is like opening a brand new park from scratch, and there will be more New Cast Member any way.
            For many of old cast member , Have found other jobs.....this is going be longer time process !
            IMO
            Last edited by Eagleman; 02-17-2021, 08:31 PM.
            Soaring like an EAGLE !

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Westsider View Post

              No stupid questions man - none of this has been done before!
              So what is the reason that these people couldn't just come back and work the 3, 4, 5 whatever shifts with empty vehicles before the 365 days elapse to keep their qualifications current? (especially since I'm assuming there are already crews coming in to cycle the rides and perform maintenance anyway).
              Is it that they're technically "laid off" and no longer work for the company?
              Also, I just realized that since it's Cal-OSHA/The State of California making the rules, the same scenario will happen at Universal Studios Hollywood, Knott's, Sea World San Diego etc. as well.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 9oldmen View Post

                So what is the reason that these people couldn't just come back and work the 3, 4, 5 whatever shifts with empty vehicles before the 365 days elapse to keep their qualifications current? (especially since I'm assuming there are already crews coming in to cycle the rides and perform maintenance anyway).
                Is it that they're technically "laid off" and no longer work for the company?
                Also, I just realized that since it's Cal-OSHA/The State of California making the rules, the same scenario will happen at Universal Studios Hollywood, Knott's, Sea World San Diego etc. as well.

                No reason at all - other than you'd have to bring back thousands of CM's off of furlough and give them 28 to 40 hours of scheduled shifts per week based on their seniority and union contract. And then keep them employed and staffed at that level for months until the state government allows Disneyland to reopen.

                All hourly Attractions CM's that haven't quit in the last year or been laid off are still on furlough. Although I know of at least four different Attractions CM's that are technically on "furlough" and are getting California unemployment, but they live out of state now or far from Orange County and have no intention of returning to their Disneyland job ever.

                And yeah - this issue isn't just a Disneyland thing. It's gonna be the same problem for Uni, Knott's, etc.

                It's just at DLR there are a lot of regulated attractions - about 45. To reopen those attractions you are going to have to either get thousands of CM's back on the job before March 12th - or spend a few months retraining everyone and having a long ramp up period where not every ride is operating at DLR.

                A few rides not regulated by Cal-OSHA (DOSH) are Canoes and Rafts. Somehow those two fall under watercraft and not theme park rides because they aren't on tracks, and since it's a private waterway they can't be regulated by Cal-OSHA as a theme park ride or regulated by the US Coast Guard. So TSI could open easily - but Canoes probably won't reopen for a long time only because it uses a very high number of CM's to operate. You could run both Mansion and Splash with the amount of CM's it takes for a 6 boat operation on Canoes.

                Main Street Vehicles also aren't regulated by Cal-OSHA because they are just cars not on tracks.
                Last edited by Westsider; 02-17-2021, 11:49 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Fascinating. I hope this isn't catching TDA by surprise and they're putting a plan in place to resolve this - perhaps an agreement with OSHA to extend the year expiration given the pandemic?

                  Please keep us updated!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It going take time to RE-OPEN the parks.........once they get permission to re-open !
                    Soaring like an EAGLE !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by denyuntilcaught View Post
                      Fascinating. I hope this isn't catching TDA by surprise and they're putting a plan in place to resolve this - perhaps an agreement with OSHA to extend the year expiration given the pandemic?

                      Please keep us updated!
                      OSHA is not known for being reasonable.........they typically are of the 'ram the rules on 'em' mentality.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Reopening with Attractions is not something that will happen anytime soon. I would guess the end of summer or early fall. This being California, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen until 2022. So retraining Attractions Cast Members is not something that needs to be done immediately.
                        It's just so sad that Disneyland and DCA has to continue to suffer this way while Walt Disney World is humming along quite nicely. DLR is the polar opposite of WDW. And as we all know...it has nothing to do with the Coronavirus.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by micromind View Post

                          OSHA is not known for being reasonable..........
                          You got that right.....
                          As well there been many dispute's for years with OSHA and Disney

                          Also OSHA among many other reason ,why many Big Business
                          have move out of the state........ IMO
                          Soaring like an EAGLE !

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by micromind View Post

                            OSHA is not known for being reasonable.........they typically are of the 'ram the rules on 'em' mentality.
                            Pretty much.

                            Comment


                            • #16
                              Could they call CMs back during this time period and just have them run the rides to meet training requirements? They'd have to pay them, and the CMs would have to report the time to EDD. I know they can't open the park to the public, but I'm sure there are CMs in the park daily doing mechanical maintenance, upkeep, and landscaping. If they're allowed in to 'train' I'd think that, with PPE and SD, they could rotate small groups of ride ops CMs in to keep up with OSHAs requirements. They may not be able to keep everyone 'current', but I'd think they could get enough 'certified' to make a good start when DL can reopen.

                              I was just thinking the other day that they must be running the rides just to keep the mechanics in shape. Just like you're told to start a car in storage every so often and drive it a bit to keep all the parts working. May as well put that time to good use.
                              "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

                              Comment


                              • #17
                                Can anyone provide a link to all this knowledge they are giving, or is it just speculation?
                                "And yes, we implore EVERYBODY to follow the park rules. Having off-ride footage is great, but any still photo's or video's taken ON the coasters at SFMM are strictly against the rules. They are there for your (and everybody's) safety." "Six Flags doesn't allow ANY loose articles on their coasters, and they don't allow video taping on their coasters. " BUT, "​ This is not true. Six Flags does not allow ANY On-Ride video or pictures on the rides. The ONLY way is if you get explicit permission from Park Management." ???

                                Comment


                                • #18
                                  Originally posted by Stormy View Post
                                  Could they call CMs back during this time period and just have them run the rides to meet training requirements? They'd have to pay them, and the CMs would have to report the time to EDD. I know they can't open the park to the public, but I'm sure there are CMs in the park daily doing mechanical maintenance, upkeep, and landscaping. If they're allowed in to 'train' I'd think that, with PPE and SD, they could rotate small groups of ride ops CMs in to keep up with OSHAs requirements. They may not be able to keep everyone 'current', but I'd think they could get enough 'certified' to make a good start when DL can reopen.

                                  I was just thinking the other day that they must be running the rides just to keep the mechanics in shape. Just like you're told to start a car in storage every so often and drive it a bit to keep all the parts working. May as well put that time to good use.
                                  If allowed, this would be the best way by far. No doubt, they'd be ready when actual people arrive.

                                  However, the vast majority of execs don't understand the idea of continuing to operate rides in order to keep them in shape, they see only the expenditure of funds that they feel are wasted. "It's a machine, if it ran before, it'll run now too".

                                  This mentality is fine for simple machines but the rides at DL are not exactly simple........

                                  Comment


                                  • #19
                                    Originally posted by TacAlert View Post
                                    Can anyone provide a link to all this knowledge they are giving, or is it just speculation?
                                    About OSHA?

                                    My statement is based on many years of actual personal experience with them in the construction trades.

                                    Comment


                                    • #20
                                      Originally posted by micromind View Post

                                      About OSHA?

                                      My statement is based on many years of actual personal experience with them in the construction trades.
                                      You know..........I know your personal experience ,also
                                      including performing ,mechanical maintenance , Knowledge Assessment in this area.....
                                      We both know , how strict OSHA rules is !
                                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                      Comment

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