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  • #21
    After 8 consecutive years of having an AP, I chose not to renew it in September of 2017 when it expired. I have been back once about two months ago to visit DTD and BVS. Our youngest daughter will be 2 in May, and oldest daughter will be 6 in July. The oldest is now tall enough to ride most attractions, and I'm ready to create some new lifelong memories for our family once the new Memberships are announced. More importantly I'm looking forward to seeing the park through our daughters eyes now.
    Big Thunder Ranch > Galaxys Edge

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    • #22
      I was lucky to have both Disneyland and Knott's around ,as I was growing up
      and in my backyard ....and even with AP's ........as time goes.....life is to short
      I end up learning.......there other things ,I want to do and see
      and There more to life , than Disney (or Knott's)
      Soaring like an EAGLE !

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      • #23
        Originally posted by BigThunda View Post
        After 8 consecutive years of having an AP, I chose not to renew it in September of 2017 when it expired. I have been back once about two months ago to visit DTD and BVS. Our youngest daughter will be 2 in May, and oldest daughter will be 6 in July. The oldest is now tall enough to ride most attractions, and I'm ready to create some new lifelong memories for our family once the new Memberships are announced. More importantly I'm looking forward to seeing the park through our daughters eyes now.
        I was a big Disney fan before being a parent although have never lived close enough to warrant getting an AP but once I began taking my kids it was so much more powerful for me getting to see the parks through the eyes of my children. To this day the most memorable trip was my daughters first trips when she was two. She was just so in awe of everything and the characters. I have video of her bouncing with Tigger and a picture of her kissing Mickey's nose, and the look of awe she has sitting on Little Mermaid's lap in full Mermaid mode. These are things I will never forget. And now that my kids are teenagers they are just as big of Disney fans and the parks are places they can put the phone away and just be kids again.
        BGood! It's not just my motto its my name!

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        • #24
          Kids have been living with a closed Disneyland for over a year now. I remember as a kid summer vacation felt like a very long time. A year was simply an eternity. I’m wondering how many kids are interested in going back? Not only have they been away for a a year, they’ve had to learn how to cope without having many more important things both on a psychological and sociological level. My guess is kids today do not have the desire to go like they did before the closure. Someone posted about being excited to see Disneyland through their kid’s eyes, but I don’t know if these kids are as enthusiastic about going as the poster would like them to be (not singling out the poster - just an observation).

          I know - Disneyland is not meant specifically for kids but if they lose that market it’s going to make it that much harder for Disney to get people to go once all the hype has worn off.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
            Kids have been living with a closed Disneyland for over a year now. I remember as a kid summer vacation felt like a very long time. A year was simply an eternity. I’m wondering how many kids are interested in going back? Not only have they been away for a a year, they’ve had to learn how to cope without having many more important things both on a psychological and sociological level. My guess is kids today do not have the desire to go like they did before the closure. Someone posted about being excited to see Disneyland through their kid’s eyes, but I don’t know if these kids are as enthusiastic about going as the poster would like them to be (not singling out the poster - just an observation).

            I know - Disneyland is not meant specifically for kids but if they lose that market it’s going to make it that much harder for Disney to get people to go once all the hype has worn off.
            Based on what exactly?

            I don't have survey data on kids, so I can only go by what my kids think and what I remember about when I was a kid. I can tell you that my kids are just as excited about going as they've ever been. We usually go annually, so we're due. When I was a kid a year was a long time, but I don't remember thinking about much in the long-term like that. The years were generally marked by Christmas, my birthday, and the school year and summer vacations. I'm not sure how much I was thinking about how long its been since I went to a specific place.

            I think it's probably true that a lot of people have moved onto other forms of entertainment in their lives, but I'm not sure if that is heightened for kids or not.

            It could be true that some kids grew out of Disney during the time that it was closed. I could imagine being 12 years old for a trip in 2019, missing out in 2020, and then when you're 14 in 2021 you want big thrill rides like Magic Mountain and not the tamer coasters of Disneyland.

            I also think that any drop off will be short-term problems. Eventually things will get back to some kind of normal. Sure there may be some people who go less because their habit was broken, but a lot of that will be because of the revamping of the AP program and not just to lack of desire. Disney might see decreases of various groups compared to what they had before, but I think talk about losing whole demographics is premature.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
              Kids have been living with a closed Disneyland for over a year now. I remember as a kid summer vacation felt like a very long time. A year was simply an eternity. I’m wondering how many kids are interested in going back? Not only have they been away for a a year, they’ve had to learn how to cope without having many more important things both on a psychological and sociological level. My guess is kids today do not have the desire to go like they did before the closure. Someone posted about being excited to see Disneyland through their kid’s eyes, but I don’t know if these kids are as enthusiastic about going as the poster would like them to be (not singling out the poster - just an observation).

              I know - Disneyland is not meant specifically for kids but if they lose that market it’s going to make it that much harder for Disney to get people to go once all the hype has worn off.
              I completely disagree with this, young children do not drive attendance as their parents would have to plan the trips to take them, teens while they may have a shorter attention span also create obsessions pretty easy. Having 2 teens myself and being a high school teacher I can tell you right now I hear a lot of kids talking about wanting Disneyland to reopen and being so ready to go. In the time span of things a year is not that long and it really would not change one's desire. I only go to Disney World once every few years it doesn't change my desire to go and I feel that is probably the same for children of all ages.
              BGood! It's not just my motto its my name!

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              • #27
                Mine is dwindling Had 5 incredible years of first class Christmas time trips. The bar has been set so high I have no desire to return for a lesser experience now. No fireworks, no parades, no shows, no character meeting, requiring masks, etc. Just not magical to me. I go to Disneyland to forget the outside world. Face mask requirement is a hard no for me.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Interesting idea about kids being less interested I know my own kids even over the last 2 years ( twins that were 11 when the park closed and are 12 going 15 now.) seem less anxious to return. One of my daughters is "meh" in regards to going and the other is still excited and wants to return. Another thing I noticed though is as they are getting to middle school age they definitely are way less enchanted by the Disney magic. Even watching Disney+ or a Disney Animated or live action movie no longer interests them, they have very little interest in wearing any Disney merchandise. That to me is an indicator they are losing interest in the Disney brand as a whole as they get older. My wife is a middle school teacher and she is missing Disney the most in our family and occasionally mentions this to her classes and recently she mentioned they seem less interested in going to Disneyland, some feel the park is too childish for their them now. There is a trend of Disney being for lil kids amongst South County pre-teens who are very sensitive to their perceived maturity.

                  Also the mentions about seeing the parks through the eyes of young children for me was very true as well those first several of years (when they were ages 5-9) were the best ever even though we barely went on the coaster or thrill rides the wife and I had so much fun seeing them light up all day. We are now in the more adult stage of things and are no looking forward to spending more time on the thrill based rides as they can now handle them so even though we no longer have that jaw dropping magic we will now have more ride based fun as we begin the era of no more kiddie rides. ( though I know my wife and I will still ride them on occasion as we do enjoy the artwork and craftsmanship of many of them. )
                  Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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                  • #29
                    I’m more in between same desire and dwindling desire. Daughter is quite busy with her schoolwork and basketball. I’m just plain busy. But we still want to return for visits Even the passport thing hasn’t been much of a loss.
                    I am old. But still love Disneyland.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                      There is a trend of Disney being for lil kids amongst South County pre-teens who are very sensitive to their perceived maturity.
                      Why do we think this is a trend happening in 2021 to kids in a specific area? It sounds a lot like typical pre-teen angst to me. I don't know about you guys, but this sounds almost exactly like my experience in junior high in suburban Sacramento in the early 90s.

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                        Interesting idea about kids being less interested I know my own kids even over the last 2 years ( twins that were 11 when the park closed and are 12 going 15 now.) seem less anxious to return. One of my daughters is "meh" in regards to going and the other is still excited and wants to return. Another thing I noticed though is as they are getting to middle school age they definitely are way less enchanted by the Disney magic. Even watching Disney+ or a Disney Animated or live action movie no longer interests them, they have very little interest in wearing any Disney merchandise. That to me is an indicator they are losing interest in the Disney brand as a whole as they get older. My wife is a middle school teacher and she is missing Disney the most in our family and occasionally mentions this to her classes and recently she mentioned they seem less interested in going to Disneyland, some feel the park is too childish for their them now. There is a trend of Disney being for lil kids amongst South County pre-teens who are very sensitive to their perceived maturity....
                        Yep. And that's neither by accident nor a reaction of "today's youth." MiceChat threads over the years have discussed the "kiddiefication" of many elements of Disneyland, and especially in how the brand is marketed. The evidence of the switch, which began with the advent of the Eisner regime and accelerated under Iger, can be seen everywhere from Disneyland print ads to its shopping bag designs.
                        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                        designed to appeal to everyone."

                        - Walt Disney

                        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                        - Michael Eisner

                        "It's very symbiotic."
                        - Bob Chapek

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                        • #32
                          IMO
                          Disney Parks has not been the same -with there brand is advertisement - marketed place's
                          since Eisner regime and have gotten worst.......
                          Soaring like an EAGLE !

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Co Foo View Post

                            Why do we think this is a trend happening in 2021 to kids in a specific area? It sounds a lot like typical pre-teen angst to me. I don't know about you guys, but this sounds almost exactly like my experience in junior high in suburban Sacramento in the early 90s.
                            Well when I was in Middle School in the 80's we were all into Disneyland and even into highschool you could where a Mickey Mouse shirt and it was totally acceptable and not considered a sign of immaturity and friends of mine with older kids now college age seem to have never shy'd away from the Disney brand either. My wife who is a middle school teacher has said she has noticed the trend where kids are less into Disney as they used to be when she would bring up the park etc. I am only going by a small subset here in Southern OC your milage may vary.
                            Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Starcade View Post

                              Well when I was in Middle School in the 80's we were all into Disneyland and even into highschool you could where a Mickey Mouse shirt and it was totally acceptable and not considered a sign of immaturity and friends of mine with older kids now college age seem to have never shy'd away from the Disney brand either. My wife who is a middle school teacher has said she has noticed the trend where kids are less into Disney as they used to be when she would bring up the park etc. I am only going by a small subset here in Southern OC your milage may vary.
                              My brothers have definitely drifted away from Disney the older they've gotten (they are all in their teens). When they lived in CA, they only enjoyed Disneyland for the thrill rides and food. I don't think they were much into the craftsmanship that a lot of us appreciate as adults.

                              The young girls in my family appreciate Disneyland and are always excited at the mention of a visit. I'm not sure if that will change once they get older, but at the moment they very much lean into the Princess Meet-and-Greet aspects of the park... which their absence may be a difficult sell in the world of COVID.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
                                Kids have been living with a closed Disneyland for over a year now. I remember as a kid summer vacation felt like a very long time. A year was simply an eternity. I’m wondering how many kids are interested in going back? Not only have they been away for a a year, they’ve had to learn how to cope without having many more important things both on a psychological and sociological level. My guess is kids today do not have the desire to go like they did before the closure. Someone posted about being excited to see Disneyland through their kid’s eyes, but I don’t know if these kids are as enthusiastic about going as the poster would like them to be (not singling out the poster - just an observation).

                                I know - Disneyland is not meant specifically for kids but if they lose that market it’s going to make it that much harder for Disney to get people to go once all the hype has worn off.
                                It seems like your post is in response to my previous one. It's not a matter of me wanting her to be excited to be back at the parks at all. Our 5 year old is very excited to return to the parks. We have multiple YouTube video playlists saved of Disneyland/DCA attractions/parades/shows that we watch a few times a week. My wife has taken our girls a handful of times to DTD/BVS over the past few months. I can go on and on, but I'll spare everyone, lol.
                                Big Thunder Ranch > Galaxys Edge

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I am sure that the park's initial opening will see a massive surge of demand. Even with the financial impact of COVID there are enough people in the area to more than make both parks hit capacity. After that short burst though? I am sure it will go back to business as usual, and Disney's treatment of an AP program will be the largest dictator of crowds.

                                  Just take a look at Florida. It has been largely business as usual, sans a number of attractions, for almost the past year. Tickets have been relatively cheap, and there has been ample hotel room and space in the parks. It's largely just continued on as it always has save restrictions and health measures. It would not suprise me if the same thing happened in California. Locals with easy access may flock to the resort, but travellers will likely remain at the previous levels as those desperately needing to travel could have gone to WDW instead.

                                  All of that being said, I am sure the Disney PR machine will go into full force demonstrating a massive pent up demand for the parks with massive wait times etc etc, because that will drive the stock price up and also demonstrate a demand for whatever new ticketing scheme will exist. The problem is, one would likely just need to look at Florida to determine that the demand will likely be the same as before. It really would not surprise me if Disney just looks at this as a way to end the "troublesome AP problem" in an effort to squeeze every dime from locals rather than keeping those low tier passes in and having people make their money on the pass in only a couple visits. Chapek's words in that regard were somewhat ominous.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                                    Interesting idea about kids being less interested I know my own kids even over the last 2 years ( twins that were 11 when the park closed and are 12 going 15 now.) seem less anxious to return. One of my daughters is "meh" in regards to going and the other is still excited and wants to return. Another thing I noticed though is as they are getting to middle school age they definitely are way less enchanted by the Disney magic. Even watching Disney+ or a Disney Animated or live action movie no longer interests them, they have very little interest in wearing any Disney merchandise. That to me is an indicator they are losing interest in the Disney brand as a whole as they get older. My wife is a middle school teacher and she is missing Disney the most in our family and occasionally mentions this to her classes and recently she mentioned they seem less interested in going to Disneyland, some feel the park is too childish for their them now. There is a trend of Disney being for lil kids amongst South County pre-teens who are very sensitive to their perceived maturity.

                                    Also the mentions about seeing the parks through the eyes of young children for me was very true as well those first several of years (when they were ages 5-9) were the best ever even though we barely went on the coaster or thrill rides the wife and I had so much fun seeing them light up all day. We are now in the more adult stage of things and are no looking forward to spending more time on the thrill based rides as they can now handle them so even though we no longer have that jaw dropping magic we will now have more ride based fun as we begin the era of no more kiddie rides. ( though I know my wife and I will still ride them on occasion as we do enjoy the artwork and craftsmanship of many of them. )
                                    A lot of your mentioned experiences regarding pre-teens and teens is not restricted to just Disney, it is observed industry wide. Lots of that age group is trending completely away from traditional media franchises and forms and more and more towards online platforms such as TikTok for entertainment.

                                    For example, the largest movie going audience age continues to trend older and older. Over the last few years the average age of a movie goer in the United States overwhelmingly became 25-39 year olds, making up more people than 12-24, and the number of the latter continues to shrink. The same can be said for games, Microsoft and Sony's own internal research pegs the average age of a console owner trending towards someone in their early thirties, more and more kids are moving away from that form of gaming and into short fast mobile games.

                                    Moving forward it will be interesting to see how Disney evolves to try and capture that audience's attention, because objectively and statistically Disney is fast becoming irrellavant to that age group. Movies and television shows have been the cornerstone of our entertainment and cultural identity since the 1950s, the internet and mobile devices are now quickly filling that space, it is a complete shift in the way people consume their entertainment, and it likely won't ever shift back.

                                    What does this mean for the parks? In a few years it will be interesting to see how they market and develop. Recently they trended more mature, with the implementation of Star Wars and Marvel and thrill rides. That seems like it's still missing the mark with that 12-24 age group though.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                                      A lot of your mentioned experiences regarding pre-teens and teens is not restricted to just Disney, it is observed industry wide. Lots of that age group is trending completely away from traditional media franchises and forms and more and more towards online platforms such as TikTok for entertainment.

                                      For example, the largest movie going audience age continues to trend older and older. Over the last few years the average age of a movie goer in the United States overwhelmingly became 25-39 year olds, making up more people than 12-24, and the number of the latter continues to shrink. The same can be said for games, Microsoft and Sony's own internal research pegs the average age of a console owner trending towards someone in their early thirties, more and more kids are moving away from that form of gaming and into short fast mobile games.

                                      Moving forward it will be interesting to see how Disney evolves to try and capture that audience's attention, because objectively and statistically Disney is fast becoming irrellavant to that age group. Movies and television shows have been the cornerstone of our entertainment and cultural identity since the 1950s, the internet and mobile devices are now quickly filling that space, it is a complete shift in the way people consume their entertainment, and it likely won't ever shift back.

                                      What does this mean for the parks? In a few years it will be interesting to see how they market and develop. Recently they trended more mature, with the implementation of Star Wars and Marvel and thrill rides. That seems like it's still missing the mark with that 12-24 age group though.
                                      Exactly! I wasn't going to go into things beyond Disney but I like they way in which you explained it especially in regards to Tik-Tok. Tik-Tok is far more desirable than high quality productions by media giants to my girls and their friends. My own children have dramatically given up on movies and most tv shows in favor of Tik-Tok and Twitch streams. They still watch the occasional Anime series but they are also particular about those as well. During the early months lockdown we bought s 85" TV for family movie nights and its already very difficult to get them to watch anything on the big screen when they can watch youtubers on their lil laptops. They actually were interested in the movie Flora and Ulysses and about 20 minutes into it they walked out stating "This movie is cringy" and they couldn't handle watching it. Then we suggested Raya and the Last Dragon and they said "No Thank You". These are two girls that were Frozen fanatics at ages 6-9 and now can't stand the movies. Pixars Soul they made it through but said it was just "ok"
                                      Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                                        A lot of your mentioned experiences regarding pre-teens and teens is not restricted to just Disney, it is observed industry wide. Lots of that age group is trending completely away from traditional media franchises and forms and more and more towards online platforms such as TikTok for entertainment.

                                        For example, the largest movie going audience age continues to trend older and older. Over the last few years the average age of a movie goer in the United States overwhelmingly became 25-39 year olds, making up more people than 12-24, and the number of the latter continues to shrink. The same can be said for games, Microsoft and Sony's own internal research pegs the average age of a console owner trending towards someone in their early thirties, more and more kids are moving away from that form of gaming and into short fast mobile games.

                                        Moving forward it will be interesting to see how Disney evolves to try and capture that audience's attention, because objectively and statistically Disney is fast becoming irrellavant to that age group. Movies and television shows have been the cornerstone of our entertainment and cultural identity since the 1950s, the internet and mobile devices are now quickly filling that space, it is a complete shift in the way people consume their entertainment, and it likely won't ever shift back.

                                        What does this mean for the parks? In a few years it will be interesting to see how they market and develop. Recently they trended more mature, with the implementation of Star Wars and Marvel and thrill rides. That seems like it's still missing the mark with that 12-24 age group though.
                                        This is an interesting question about how the entertainment market changes over time. Where did you get your data?

                                        I found this article from the Hollywood Reporter that shows the amount of frequent moviegoers from 2017 to 2019. It shows no meaningful shift to 25-39 year olds through that period. It shows all groups going to movies less in that time period. In fact, the 12-24 groups dipped down in '18, but recovered in '19.



                                        https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...groups-1283950

                                        I definitely agree that trends exist and preferences change over time. It could absolutely be true that people spend less on movies, music, or theme park tickets than they used to, but I'm not sure I'd say irrelevant to whole demographic groups.

                                        I'm not sure how many articles I've read in the last year about the death of cities, sporting events, concerts, Disneyland. Nothing stays the same forever. Crowding at Disney has been so nuts over the last ten years or so I think they would be fine if they lost some percentage to other forms of entertainment. I think I'd have to see a pretty steep downward trendline before I used words like irrelevant.
                                        Last edited by Co Foo; 03-18-2021, 09:01 PM.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Co Foo View Post

                                          This is an interesting question about how the entertainment market changes over time. Where did you get your data?

                                          I found this article from the Hollywood Reporter that shows the amount of frequent moviegoers from 2017 to 2019. It shows no meaningful shift to 25-39 year olds through that period. It shows all groups going to movies less in that time period. In fact, the 12-24 groups dipped down in '18, but recovered in '19.



                                          https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...groups-1283950

                                          I definitely agree that trends exist and preferences change over time. It could absolutely be true that people spend less on movies, music, or theme park tickets than they used to, but I'm not sure I'd say irrelevant to whole demographic groups.

                                          I'm not sure how many articles I've read in the last year about the death of cities, sporting events, concerts, Disneyland. Nothing stays the same forever. Crowding at Disney has been so nuts over the last ten years or so I think they would be fine if they lost some percentage to other forms of entertainment. I think I'd have to see a pretty steep downward trendline before I used words like irrelevant.
                                          The last few years was probably poor wording on my part, when we are looking at numbers over ten-twenty or thirty years. The same can be said in terms of television, including streaming which sees the key demographic shifting older as well. It's a slow creep, though we are likely to see it tip in the next few years as younger generations now grow up immersed in new media like tiktok and youtube right from when they are born and also have older brothers, sisters, aunts, and uncles that have also grown up with it. 2008 is the starting point, facebook and youtube started to become somewhat mainstream. Anyone born a little before that time or after will have experienced the PewDiPie's and Logan Paul's of the world more so than the Mickey and Friends.

                                          The whole Disney is "childish" thing is a symptom of this as well. Think back to many of our childhoods, even someone in their early 30s was likely only marginally exposed to lots of things online, because it was harder to access at a computer with parents around etc etc rather than constantly being connected to a mobile device. Children today are constantly connected to one another and are constantly socialized by other kids, there are no breaks like there were even a decade ago when you went home and were connected more to your parents and what they were showing you than friends. The result, instead of being shown Cinderella, Toy Story etc. etc. kids are watching TikTok challenges.

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