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  • Eagleman
    replied
    I think the keys words is "Monitoring and Enforcement "
    There will be few of the indoor attractions will be open.......IMO
    -mask-wearing and other safety procedures can be economically monitored via cameras and in-person staff.-

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Wiggins
    replied
    Originally posted by YeaDZNY View Post
    Hey everyone...so I was reading CA's Theme Park rules for the 1st. And at first when I read that "indoor rides" would probably not be allowed to operate during these times and the State Tier that we are in. And I was thinking...now lets say the the resorts open up sometime in April or May. And if they are already operating at a 15% capacity level...cant these indoor rides still operate, by blocking out a couple of rows and wearing your mask? Im mean come on....I dont know about any of you here, but if Im given the the option to mask up to have the ability to ride Space Mtn, ROTR or Mansion...freakin no brainer and how is it different then indoor portions of a zoo, museum or even a movie theatre?
    From the point of view of a business that has to maintain and enforce Covid safety procedures on its property, there is little similarity between indoor theme park rides and indoor portions of zoos, museums or movie theaters. In the enclosed spaces of the latter, mask-wearing and other safety procedures can be economically monitored via cameras and in-person staff. In museums and movie theaters especially, with their smaller size and smaller customer numbers, customer/staff conflicts over safety rules can be more easily handled by security.

    The tasks of monitoring and enforcement are enormously more labor-intensive, and therefore expensive, in a theme park with multiple indoor rides, each of which contains multiple moving vehicles, each of which contain multiple customers. All of the customers paid much more for their day at DLR than they would for a movie ticket or a trip to a zoo or museum, which increases the chance of customer/staff conflicts over safety rules, which increases the chance for bad publicity over such incidents -- particularly at a world-famous venue like Disneyland.




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  • Stormy
    replied
    As far as time restrictions I believe the 'general rule' in CA is that an 'encounter' standing no less than 3 ft apart and/or less than 15 min is considered 'not a great risk'. My (masked) son had a 'close encounter' when an unmasked person came up to him in the street, got very close to him, and actually coughed 'at' him. The entire 'episode' was over in less than 30 seconds.

    He was told by public health that as long as the encounter lasted less than 15 mins and/or was 3 ft away he didn't need to isolate or be tested (unless he became symptomatic).

    Not sure if the 'time restrictions' means that guests can have no more than 15 minutes of 'close contact' (3ft or less) or if they mean that a ride must be deep cleaned at specific limits (ie, you can run HM for X length of time, but then you must stop and clean it).

    All I know is that if indoor rides are closed OR are so restricted that riding them isn't really practical (like 2+ hrs wait), then I'm not going until they're able to loosen restrictions a wee bit more.

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  • Spongeocto4
    replied
    As I posted a few days ago, Orange County could very likely reach the Orange tier by Late April, where Disneyland could reopen at 25%, instead of 15%.

    Among the rides that could reopen (other than the outdoor rides), are some of the dark rides, such as Peter Pan, Snow White, Alice and Pooh, because those rides have either an open air or outdoor loading zone. Matterhorn, Big Thunder, and Grizzly River Rapids are likely as well.

    In the the toss up, Pixar Pal Around/Fun Wheel/Sun Wheel. It's outdoors, but you are caged. Radiator Springs Racers has a large indoor segment. And can GOTG:MB operate with the external shaft doors permanently open?

    And I still wonder if Disney will opt not to reopen Splash back up permanently. The retheme was announced nearly a year ago, yet no progress has been announced. Ditto with the Jungle Cruise, and which has it's planned refurb in the works.

    The current policy on indoor dining does not make sense. If the parks are only allowed to have California residents, then what's the point of the additional restrictions on dining?

    One also wonders whether the number of the population vaccinated will eventually apply to reopening metrics. Currently the metrics are still using number of cases, instead of percentage vaccinated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Going be Interesting when the Parks ...re open
    What attractions is open ........which one's that stay close.

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  • Captain Andy
    replied
    Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post
    Here are the updated guidelines in PDF form. I had seen a lot of conflicting reporting from outlets, so I'm going to spell out the changes myself and offer my commentary. It's important to note that OC and LA are now in the red tier, with good reason to believe OC will move to the orange tier as soon as it's allowed to in early April.

    Red tier (current) restrictions:
    15% park capacity. Outdoor rides can operate, indoor rides can operate at 15% capacity with time restrictions. No indoor dining.

    Orange tier restrictions:
    25% park capacity. Outdoor rides can operate, indoor rides can operate at 25% capacity with time restrictions. No comment on indoor dining.

    Both tiers:
    Test employees weekly. In-state visitors only.

    --

    As you can see, indoor rides are technically allowed. The only limitation is on how much time guests actually spend indoors (though we don't know the length of time allowed). This seems firmly rooted in the science given that most spread is indoors, but I'm not sure how it will be enforced. I could imagine Disney staging guests on the roof of Space Mountain, then starting the clock the second you enter the building. If the whole thing is under 5 minutes, maybe it will be allowed. Rides like Haunted Mansion and Pirates are less likely to open. However, if Disney is able, perhaps they will speed up the water current in IASW to get it under the time limit. Things get a bit more confusing for rides like Splash Mountain or Radiator Springs, which both have good amounts of indoor/outdoor mixed in.

    On the whole, I agree with YeaDZNY's point. It's a bit absurd that you can sit through a 2.5-hour movie, yet aren't allowed to spend maybe no more than 1.5 hours total on indoor rides when you're in the park. If all the lines are kept outside, then would spending 12 minutes on Haunted Mansion be any different than 5 minutes on Space Mountain? The governor has the right to exercise the deliberative process privilege, but it would be nice to get our hands and the underlying data that went into this decision because I just can't square it with all the information we have.

    What I am most frustrated with is that the red tier guidelines restrict indoor dining only in theme parks. Because OC is in the red tier now, technically dining indoors is allowed if the right capacity and safety measures are followed. However, if Disney were to open the parks, these guidelines would have them actually close indoor dining. I understand all-day theme parks might be a high risk, but this seems draconian, especially when movie theaters, gyms, and baseball stadiums are open. One thing I would have preferred the state do is actually have a program for restaurants to measure airflow in their facility, and open up with safe capacity if the air is filtered and circulated properly. We already have health and OSHA inspectors sitting idly by while things are closed, and maybe it could have made a difference in stopping something like this. But I digress.

    Lastly, Captain Andy is exactly right about the mixing limitation. It's only mentioned in the red tier guidelines, so I guess such restrictions are lifted in the orange and yellow tiers. But each ride is limited to small groups of either 10 people or 3 household groups with no intergroup mixing. This essentially means each family gets to ride alone, or each ride-through is limited to ten people. I'm not sure how this would work on a ride like Space Mountain, where you have two separate rollercoaster cars attached to each other. Is that enough space? I have no idea.
    This is a wonderful explanation, and I appreciate you highlighting the capacity restrictions –– I've been so caught up in following restriction guidelines outside of theme parks that I immediately assumed that indoor rides were a no-go. Thank you, Alec!

    Leave a comment:


  • WaltDisney'sAlec
    replied
    Here are the updated guidelines in PDF form. I had seen a lot of conflicting reporting from outlets, so I'm going to spell out the changes myself and offer my commentary. It's important to note that OC and LA are now in the red tier, with good reason to believe OC will move to the orange tier as soon as it's allowed to in early April.

    Red tier (current) restrictions:
    15% park capacity. Outdoor rides can operate, indoor rides can operate at 15% capacity with time restrictions. No indoor dining.

    Orange tier restrictions:
    25% park capacity. Outdoor rides can operate, indoor rides can operate at 25% capacity with time restrictions. No comment on indoor dining.

    Both tiers:
    Test employees weekly. In-state visitors only.

    --

    As you can see, indoor rides are technically allowed. The only limitation is on how much time guests actually spend indoors (though we don't know the length of time allowed). This seems firmly rooted in the science given that most spread is indoors, but I'm not sure how it will be enforced. I could imagine Disney staging guests on the roof of Space Mountain, then starting the clock the second you enter the building. If the whole thing is under 5 minutes, maybe it will be allowed. Rides like Haunted Mansion and Pirates are less likely to open. However, if Disney is able, perhaps they will speed up the water current in IASW to get it under the time limit. Things get a bit more confusing for rides like Splash Mountain or Radiator Springs, which both have good amounts of indoor/outdoor mixed in.

    On the whole, I agree with YeaDZNY's point. It's a bit absurd that you can sit through a 2.5-hour movie, yet aren't allowed to spend maybe no more than 1.5 hours total on indoor rides when you're in the park. If all the lines are kept outside, then would spending 12 minutes on Haunted Mansion be any different than 5 minutes on Space Mountain? The governor has the right to exercise the deliberative process privilege, but it would be nice to get our hands and the underlying data that went into this decision because I just can't square it with all the information we have.

    What I am most frustrated with is that the red tier guidelines restrict indoor dining only in theme parks. Because OC is in the red tier now, technically dining indoors is allowed if the right capacity and safety measures are followed. However, if Disney were to open the parks, these guidelines would have them actually close indoor dining. I understand all-day theme parks might be a high risk, but this seems draconian, especially when movie theaters, gyms, and baseball stadiums are open. One thing I would have preferred the state do is actually have a program for restaurants to measure airflow in their facility, and open up with safe capacity if the air is filtered and circulated properly. We already have health and OSHA inspectors sitting idly by while things are closed, and maybe it could have made a difference in stopping something like this. But I digress.

    Lastly, Captain Andy is exactly right about the mixing limitation. It's only mentioned in the red tier guidelines, so I guess such restrictions are lifted in the orange and yellow tiers. But each ride is limited to small groups of either 10 people or 3 household groups with no intergroup mixing. This essentially means each family gets to ride alone, or each ride-through is limited to ten people. I'm not sure how this would work on a ride like Space Mountain, where you have two separate rollercoaster cars attached to each other. Is that enough space? I have no idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesser-pie
    replied
    I agree with the OP, but I appreciate Captain Andy’s thoughtful explanation regarding the mixing.

    I thought WDW did a great job with regulations, but obviously CA doesn’t agree with me (I believe that they visited themselves). I am for being strict on mask regulations and distancing, but I feel these guidelines are draconian for the sake of being strict. I don’t see how the mixing argument shouldn’t be applied to outdoor shopping malls where it also occurs (assuming people visit multiple stores).

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Andy
    replied
    I think movie theaters have deep cleanings between screenings. Also in regards to mixing, each town/city has a local movie theater. There is only one Disneyland, thus more people from different families from different counties are coming together to one location. After their visit, they will disperse.

    Regardless, your questions are valid. It's a shame that there's a lack of data available to the public regarding theme parks and transmission for us to properly cite and understand why certain decisions are being made for different businesses. I'm mostly guessing based on the information that was given a couple of months ago.
    Last edited by Captain Andy; 03-16-2021, 10:40 AM. Reason: Countries vs. Counties

    Leave a comment:


  • YeaDZNY
    replied
    But isnt it the same philosophy or reason why the State is allowing freakin Movie Theaters to open...I mean whats the difference, and if you can maintain the proper distance between folks and having a mask on?

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Andy
    replied
    Originally posted by YeaDZNY View Post
    Hey everyone...so I was reading CA's Theme Park rules for the 1st. And at first when I read that "indoor rides" would probably not be allowed to operate during these times and the State Tier that we are in. And I was thinking...now let's say the the resorts open up sometime in April or May. And if they are already operating at a 15% capacity level...cant these indoor rides still operate, by blocking out a couple of rows and wearing your mask? I'm mean come on....I dont know about any of you here, but if Im given the the option to mask up to have the ability to ride Space Mtn, ROTR or Mansion...freakin no brainer and how is it different then indoor portions of a zoo, museum or even a movie theatre?
    I'm going to speculate –– for theme parks, scientists say that "mixing" is the biggest issue. When you are indoors, mixing becomes a bigger issue because of the lack of air circulation. When you are on your two feet, it's easy to step aside and create distance between parties. When you're on a ride, you are sitting in a vehicle, and you can't necessarily remove yourself from the situation unless a cast member is there to help. This is me guessing. I think creating space between cars would be smart, and that would be part of the solution, but the state is basically saying, "We'd rather be safe than sorry." Some may argue that Disney World may be proving everyone otherwise... unfortunately, we can't say for certain.

    On the subject of specific rides, Space Mountain is a ride that breaks down a lot due to back-up, which makes me think cleaning between parties would be difficult. The Haunted Mansion omnimover is constantly going, which also might make cleaning difficult. I'm also not sure about what kind of ventilation systems Disney has installed for either ride, but I would think that running these two under current COVID guidelines would be a challenge, especially for new cast members. Again, I'm just speculating, but I know Space Mountain specifically is crazy as far as loading / unloading goes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Indoor Ride rules and idea's when the parks open back up

    Hey everyone...so I was reading CA's Theme Park rules for the 1st. And at first when I read that "indoor rides" would probably not be allowed to operate during these times and the State Tier that we are in. And I was thinking...now lets say the the resorts open up sometime in April or May. And if they are already operating at a 15% capacity level...cant these indoor rides still operate, by blocking out a couple of rows and wearing your mask? Im mean come on....I dont know about any of you here, but if Im given the the option to mask up to have the ability to ride Space Mtn, ROTR or Mansion...freakin no brainer and how is it different then indoor portions of a zoo, museum or even a movie theatre?

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