Leveling the field for the new AP program.....

[whoever]

Yea.... I looked into that a couple of times over the years. The interest rate charged on that Visa is horrible vs just getting a cash back card with a lower APR. You aren't getting any real benefit from the card besides buying specific merchandise in park because you have one (pins etc). Get a better Visa card with a lower APR if you can.

The Disney Visa is going to fund a stay in the Adventureland Suite on my next visit on points. It's a great deal if Disney is what you want to do (and pay it off every month like I do).

[Eagleman]

Disney has no desire to appeal to AP's. COVID gave them a chance to get rid of AP's, and if they ever go back it will be a very long time. A future AP program, if it ever exists, will be nothing like before.

I AGREE....This is my understand ,
Disney/CEO for right now does not want to appeal to AP's
and if it come back in the future ,It will not be in same form ,that it was in the past !
IMO......I felt Disney wanted to change the program ,long before the COVID..........

[whoever]

The AP program has been SOOOOO underpriced when we aren't in a full-blown recession. I'm sure Disney has the data, but they could either cut admittance limits way back or increase prices and still reach an equilibrium between attendance and revenue. I find it disgusting that the admittance rates are used an industry benchmark of themepark success.

[boku4141]

It is a level playing field for said guests. Everybody is equal. Aren't we all about Equality these days?

Now Disney has come out against equality in favor of equity. Can we actually have an AP program and still achieve equity?

[SuperHappyCM]

From the most recent article about Disneyland...

"The other thing which may delay park capacity increases is Disney itself. While 25% capacity is just a momentary opportunity for those of us who live in the Golden State, we may not see crazy park crowding again for a very long time. Disneyland’s President mentioned that the park experience is very important. As a result, they may not do away with theme park reservations!
That’s encouraging folks. We’ll see if that idea sticks once park capacity limits are removed by the state and temptation grips Disneyland’s executive suite. But there’s hope that lessons of past overcrowding have indeed been learned."

[linkeq2001]

From the most recent article about Disneyland...

"The other thing which may delay park capacity increases is Disney itself. While 25% capacity is just a momentary opportunity for those of us who live in the Golden State, we may not see crazy park crowding again for a very long time. Disneyland’s President mentioned that the park experience is very important. As a result, they may not do away with theme park reservations!
That’s encouraging folks. We’ll see if that idea sticks once park capacity limits are removed by the state and temptation grips Disneyland’s executive suite. But there’s hope that lessons of past overcrowding have indeed been learned."

Just making a prediction off of this.....most APs will be some sort of Flex pass with a reservation system.

[Starcade]

DLR tried removing some AP's once in the last 5 years and they quickly reversed course when they saw the result, this result will be the same in the coming years. They did this to expedite the price increases of passes not because they wanted the passes gone. They wanted to shift people into going up a tier they pulled certain levels then they brought them back with less benefits forcing many to move up to the next more expensive tier. This is not speculation this happened.

"I can't have it so nobody should" - I see a lot on here who are not local or are not LP'ers that are drooling at the thought that their fellow fans may no longer get the better deal then they did and are often put off by hearing somebody gets to visit the parks 100+ times a year and they can't. Why? It's very telling when somebody wants to remove a benefit somebody else has that has nothing to do with them. And before anyone tries to blame Ap'ers for their bad experience...AP's do not clog the parks and make it too crowded for you none AP'ers, DLR's Max Cap does this and DLR will do whatever it takes to keep the parks as close to packed as possible end of story full stop.

Disney does things in cycles to maximize their profits first seeming altruistic massaging one group at the apparent detriment of another just to then switch to the reverse making both sides feel DLR is on their side when DLR is and always will be on DLR's side first and foremost. They never say we are looking to reduce the parks attendance they simply say they are looking to "increase the guest experience". Even if they did figure out a way to obtain the revenue they had in 2019 without AP's ( not happening ) with say a 70% attendance in the parks it would be mere months before the concern that they were leaving revenue on the table because they could increase capacity by 30%. How would they get in those 30% more customers that they have room for? A: Queue the new AP program and the cycle starts all over again. Those that feel AP'er should be banished because they pay a ton to go for a single or 3-5 day trip and DLR agrees with you need to know your being played. They will charge you more claim they are doing this to make DLR a more exclusive experience then once your comfortable being gouged at the new rate they will bring back discounted tickets and AP's to the masses who are local and the cycle restarts. Sorry I think it sucks that DLR gouges tourists ( they aren't the only ones in CA that do this fyi ). Many of the previous 70% will then jump onto whatever the new AP program is and then we will be back to the same scenario that we had in 2019. Equilibrium being what it is we have already seen what the parks comfort zone is. It will come back and this time we will ALL be paying more for the same. AP'ers will be falsely blamed while at the same time be coddled behind the scenes by DLR and told they are the favorite etc. It's a vicious cycle.

The thought that people who can afford it will simply pay whatever it takes only applies to a very small chunk of the fanbase. DLR wants to get everyone into their parks to create a relationship with fans of all tax brackets as they will buy Disney themed diapers at Walmart, food products at Costco, plush toys at Target etc. The parks (& Disney+) are just a big immersive ads for their merch. Keeping people out means a lot less revenue elsewhere as the parks are not just about making money inside the berms.

Disney also has many times more hotel rooms to fill in FL, they prefer travelers go there where Disney's profit margins are likely higher per visitor. They have so many hotel rooms in that area its staggering.

In short DLR is a locals park and if DLR tries to reverse this they do so at their own peril imho.

[Mr Wiggins]

From today's MiceChat Disneyland Update:

"...The other thing which may delay park capacity increases is Disney itself. While 25% capacity is just a momentary opportunity for those of us who live in the Golden State, we may not see crazy park crowding again for a very long time. Disneyland’s President mentioned that the park experience is very important. As a result, they may not do away with theme park reservations!
That’s encouraging folks. We’ll see if that idea sticks once park capacity limits are removed by the state and temptation grips Disneyland’s executive suite. But there’s hope that lessons of past overcrowding have indeed been learned."

It's bewildering how, after years of consistent overcrowding courtesy of Disney management's policies, people still believe that management has learned some kind of "lesson" about overcrowding being a negative for the Company.

The only lesson to be learned is that no matter how crowded and how expensive DLR is, customers have continued to pack the parks. Sure, customers complain -- and then return again and again, no matter how crowded the "experience."

Once the pandemic is under control, Disney will have no reason to minimize the crowds. They'll just allow more reservations. The reservation system will allow them to run an even leaner and more profitable operation by letting them predict how many customers they'll have to staff for.

But deliberately leaving money on the table by capping reservations at a lower level, when the demand for their product is larger than the supply? Not a chance. They're a for-profit, Wall Street-oriented corporation. Maximizing profits is what they do. And for decades, Disneyland's customers have consistently voted YES with their wallets to management's premium-priced sardine-can definition of "Guest experience."

Bottom line: big crowds and high prices do not keep customers away from Disneyland.

[Mr Wiggins]

...The thought that people who can afford it will simply pay whatever it takes only applies to a very small chunk of the fanbase. DLR wants to get everyone into their parks to create a relationship with fans of all tax brackets as they will buy Disney themed diapers at Walmart, food products at Costco, plush toys at Target etc. The parks (& Disney+) are just a big immersive ads for their merch. Keeping people out means a lot less revenue elsewhere as the parks are not just about making money inside the berms...

ka-Bingo on your whole post, and especially that paragraph!

[Captain Andy]

Disney does things in cycles to maximize their profits first seeming altruistic massaging one group at the apparent detriment of another just to then switch to the reverse making both sides feel DLR is on their side when DLR is and always will be on DLR's side first and foremost. They never say we are looking to reduce the parks attendance they simply say they are looking to "increase the guest experience". Even if they did figure out a way to obtain the revenue they had in 2019 without AP's ( not happening ) with say a 70% attendance in the parks it would be mere months before the concern that they were leaving revenue on the table because they could increase capacity by 30%. How would they get in those 30% more customers that they have room for? A: Queue the new AP program and the cycle starts all over again. Those that feel AP'er should be banished because they pay a ton to go for a single or 3-5 day trip and DLR agrees with you need to know your being played. They will charge you more claim they are doing this to make DLR a more exclusive experience then once your comfortable being gouged at the new rate they will bring back discounted tickets and AP's to the masses who are local and the cycle restarts. Sorry I think it sucks that DLR gouges tourists ( they aren't the only ones in CA that do this fyi ). Many of the previous 70% will then jump onto whatever the new AP program is and then we will be back to the same scenario that we had in 2019. Equilibrium being what it is we have already seen what the parks comfort zone is. It will come back and this time we will ALL be paying more for the same. AP'ers will be falsely blamed while at the same time be coddled behind the scenes by DLR and told they are the favorite etc. It's a vicious cycle.

This whole paragraph. At this point, it's hard to even listen to Disney spokesperson regarding the topic because like the months leading up to the cancellation, Disney was being vague and twiddling their thumbs acting all innocent. Even after, Disney is still being vague and playing to both sides. Elephants will fly before Disney is actually upfront with either customer base, and that's in the numbers, which most of us don't have access to.

I personally don't understand why they are catering to former APs if the program is finished, dead, and never to come back under a different name or interface. One could argue it's not even fair to the people who pay full-price tickets that LPs have exclusive access to the Alfresco Tasting Terrace when the program is dead. Everyone got their refunds. What's the point? It's a bit suspicious to me.

[Starcade]

From today's MiceChat Disneyland Update:
Once the pandemic is under control, Disney will have no reason to minimize the crowds. They'll just allow more reservations. The reservation system will allow them to run an even leaner and more profitable operation by letting them predict how many customers they'll have to staff for..

Exactly they will be more emboldened to keep things running lean because they will have groomed their guests to accept this. They will use reservations just as all parks have now started doing and this will likely be the case across all types of passes/tickets. Reservations will be the biggest permanent change. Reservation based entries where something DLR was already beginning to implement prior to the pandemic and now they have the ability to usher it in quickly across the board. I would not be surprised to see them also do a staggered entry time for reservations like Knotts is currently doing this allows them reduce the morning surge that gives many guests the false sense of an over crowded park as well as allows the park itself to prevent huge crowds from forming which is a health issue with a pandemic still very much upon us.

[Mr Wiggins]

Exactly they will be more emboldened to keep things running lean because they will have groomed their guests to accept this. They will use reservations just as all parks have now started doing and this will likely be the case across all types of passes/tickets. Reservations will be the biggest permanent change. Reservation based entries where something DLR was already beginning to implement prior to the pandemic and now they have the ability to usher it in quickly across the board. I would not be surprised to see them also do a staggered entry time for reservations like Knotts is currently doing this allows them reduce the morning surge that gives many guests the false sense of an over crowded park as well as allows the park itself to prevent huge crowds from forming which is a health issue with a pandemic still very much upon us.

Spot on. And after the pandemic they'll be able to continually tweak the reservation system algorithms to keep the supply chain (the largest expense of which is labor) on Max Lean, with minimum CM-to-Guest ratios and minimum entertainment. Additionally furthering profits, more and more of the placement of reservations and on-site food ordering will be performed "do-it-yourself" style by the customers, via their device apps. Sweet! (For management, that is -- but for the further decline of Disney's once-world-famous standards of customer service, not so much.)

Edited to add: a trip report in another thread mentioned that "The only food places offering 'walk up' service were the snack carts." Food carts generate high ROI profits thanks to the ginormous markup on their ingredients and their super-low labor costs compared to larger food venues.

[Starcade]

I personally don't understand why they are catering to former APs if the program is finished, dead, and never to come back under a different name or interface. One could argue it's not even fair to the people who pay full-price tickets that LPs have exclusive access to the Alfresco Tasting Terrace when the program is dead. Everyone got their refunds. What's the point? It's a bit suspicious to me.

Well they aren't really offering much as far as perks for LP's though we get discounts etc. (rumored to continue be extended until the new "membership program" is to be announced) They are smart enough to know very few of the LP's are going to be swayed to pay full price simply because they got a discount card and a couple of minor extra access. I think what they are really doing is simply trying to keep the chain of contact alive and ready for the next announcement. When they truly have something to offer which will be some sort of discounted entry structure because they know anything less will simply cause the majority of the million+ LP's to bounce, they know it will create a stall in interest. The longer they wait the longer they have a period where LP'ers start to get impatient and visit the parks sans AP. The day they say AP's are coming on such and such day is the day where suddenly a bunch of Reservations get cancelled as folks will be smart and delay their visit(s) a month or so longer if they know the new AP are about to be announced. I think they already know what the new AP/Membership structure will be they are just sitting on things waiting for the current system to start to wain before they unleash the beast. The extended time also allows them to adjust the pricing until the final moment of announcement. If they see the day tickets reservations start to drop I think that is the point where the announcement will come or the Holiday season where many AP's used to be purchased as gifts. They did admit something would come before the end of the year which tells you they already know they can only go so long without that program.

[Eagleman]

IMO- I do see a New program in the future........
But it not going be like the past AP's .