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  • #41
    Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post

    I mean, if anyone took a step back to think about it... I didn't spend my money on a Disneyland ticket until I made enough money, and that was a one-time purchase in 2017.

    The next time I purchased a ticket, it was for a pass ($649) in 2019. Divide that by $209 (the highest tiered ticket) –– that's three tickets.

    Three tickets compared to one ticket. There's more money in one than the other. That's not including food and merchandise purchases. When I purchased my solo ticket, I brought snacks from Trader Joe's. With my AP, I felt a bit more daring and purchased complete meals and hats, and sweaters....
    Pricing AP's by payment plans made it much much easier for DLR to increase the cost versus if they made guests pay in full. Having your monthly payment go up $15 is easier for many people to swallow versus suddenly paying $180 more just a year later.

    There are many financial/marketing reasons the payment plans were a windfall for DLR.
    Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Starcade View Post
      I was surfing around and I came across this very interesting graph, interesting to see how much AP's have increased over day tickets all before Covid:

      (It is from this guys blog for those interested: https://www.davidbcalhoun.com/2020/d...-2020-dollars/ )
      Great post. Also really puts to bed the notion that APs weren't a big factor in revenue. In fact, as of recent, it takes quite a LOT of tickets to equal an annual pass. Once Disney burns through the pent up demand, it would be unlikely that people would repeat full cost tickets except as an occasional jaunt.

      It will be no surprise when they introduce a "membership" program later this year as to the reasons why. The graph tells the story.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post

        Great post. Also really puts to bed the notion that APs weren't a big factor in revenue. In fact, as of recent, it takes quite a LOT of tickets to equal an annual pass. Once Disney burns through the pent up demand, it would be unlikely that people would repeat full cost tickets except as an occasional jaunt.

        It will be no surprise when they introduce a "membership" program later this year as to the reasons why. The graph tells the story.
        Time will tell........or can be Discounts at the local store's
        Last edited by Eagleman; 06-09-2021, 05:48 PM.
        Soaring like an EAGLE !

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        • #44
          Disneyland is no longer an enjoyable experience. I don't even know what "mobile ordering" is... I guess something you need one of those smarty phones to do?

          I can see Knott's becoming much more favorable, at least you don't need a reservation to buy a box of popcorn there.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by Chief Leaky War Canoe View Post
            Disneyland is no longer an enjoyable experience. I don't even know what "mobile ordering" is... I guess something you need one of those smarty phones to do?

            I can see Knott's becoming much more favorable, at least you don't need a reservation to buy a box of popcorn there.
            Exactly!!!...all this Mobile Order, Virtual Queue crap is lame. And quit disappointing that in order to have a "good time" I need to glue my face to my smarty phone all day

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            • #46
              Too much planning really does detract from the magic. Exploration and spontaneity enhance magic; timetables and checklists kill it.

              Virtual Queue? Being assigned a time to return to the ride at which point you will be ushered aboard with no waiting? Sounds great...until you remember that one of the functions of the queue in a well-designed theme park (which I suppose we must still technically consider Disneyland to be) is to acclimate you to the atmosphere of the ride and build anticipation. Going straight from the walkway to the ride has to be less satisfying than spending some time, even ten minutes, easing into the experience, inching closer to your boarding point, being surrounded by the themed architecture and music and sometimes even a bit of pre-show.

              I think there's a long-standing assumption that the ride itself, the part where you are being physically moved in a vehicle, is the only thing anyone is there for, and anything that is not a literal ride--whether a show attraction or waiting in a queue--is a waste of time and if you can skip it then you should. How do we cure people of that impatience?
              Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Karalora View Post
                Too much planning really does detract from the magic. Exploration and spontaneity enhance magic; timetables and checklists kill it.

                Virtual Queue? Being assigned a time to return to the ride at which point you will be ushered aboard with no waiting? Sounds great...until you remember that one of the functions of the queue in a well-designed theme park (which I suppose we must still technically consider Disneyland to be) is to acclimate you to the atmosphere of the ride and build anticipation. Going straight from the walkway to the ride has to be less satisfying than spending some time, even ten minutes, easing into the experience, inching closer to your boarding point, being surrounded by the themed architecture and music and sometimes even a bit of pre-show.

                I think there's a long-standing assumption that the ride itself, the part where you are being physically moved in a vehicle, is the only thing anyone is there for, and anything that is not a literal ride--whether a show attraction or waiting in a queue--is a waste of time and if you can skip it then you should. How do we cure people of that impatience?
                Yeah, exactly. When I'm at the parks what I'm really doing is enjoying spending time with the people I'm with, and a very major part of that is hanging out in the queues, which is why having great queue design is so important. The psychological function of the rides is more or less to provide a boost of positive emotions, anticipation and excitement to keep the hanging out experience "magical" -- you exit the good ones with a skip in your step, you know? But it's not really the main event -- I'm not trying to max out my personal ridership, I'm trying to enjoy my day, if you know what I mean? I'm not really trying to ride Mr Toad as much as use Mr Toad as a structure onto which to place some "quality time", and you can't do that virtually.

                I'm hoping virtual queues don't stick around, for one thing because if you take out lines there just isn't that much to do. Even if I'm management's dream Guest who fills up all unassigned hours shopping and eating, realistically, there's still a limit to how much food I can take in and how many souvenirs I can buy that's going to be attained pretty quickly, and then what am I going to do? The rides just aren't the same without the anticipation either, exactly as you say. Virtual queue's are just a terrible idea from all angles, IMO.
                Last edited by BasilOregano; 06-10-2021, 01:13 PM.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by BasilOregano View Post
                  ...Even if I'm management's dream Guest who fills up all unassigned hours shopping and eating, there's a limit to how much food I can take in and how many souvenirs I can buy that's going to be attained pretty quickly, and then what am I going to do?...
                  How can you spontaneously eat and spend while not waiting in line if you are precluded from ordering a Dole Whip unless scheduled earlier this morning? Seems like these goals are at cross purposes.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by merlinjones View Post

                    How can you spontaneously eat and spend while not waiting in line if you are precluded from ordering a Dole Whip unless scheduled earlier this morning? Seems like these goals are at cross purposes.
                    This is also very true. I feel pretty certain mandatory mobile ordering will be gone once the social distancing is lifted, though, they very much want people to make impulse purchases, so that I'm not too worried about. Virtual queues I'm less certain about.

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                    • #50
                      The survey results make sense. In times past, international/destination travel was cost prohibitive, even to those who considered themselves "rich". Those were trips that were few and far between, so traveling domestically made sense. For example, El Paso was considered one of the premier tourist destinations just after the war because it was considered "exotic" and evoked a sense of western frontiers.

                      Now, as several have mentioned, traveling internationally can actually be cheaper than a trip to a Disney resort, so if you have the money, why spend it on a sub-par experience in terms of bang-for-your-buck when compared to a once-in-a-lifetime or infrequent experience?

                      For those who aren't as monied, the allure of destination travel (Hawaii, Europe, Caribbean) is still there, but the mentality is that it is a luxury that they may only be able to afford once in their lifetimes, if even that. For them, Disney, being domestic, is a cheaper destination vacation simply for the fact that it is American. They don't do the budget comparisons to see what it actually costs, and explicitly tell travel agents they don't want to go out of the country because of the costs/security concerns/language barriers/whatever.

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Karalora View Post
                        Virtual Queue? Being assigned a time to return to the ride at which point you will be ushered aboard with no waiting?
                        None of the virtual queues work that way. You still wait in the queue at the attraction. When your time arrives in the virtual queue, that's when you -- and hundreds of other people -- start your wait at the end of the existing physical queue.

                        For example, when your turn arrives in the virtual queue for Rise of the Resistance, the physical queue that you then stand in has reached back to Hungry Bear at times. The physical queue, the themed architecture and environment, the music, the pre-show(s) (although currently shortened on Rise) are still the "first act" of the attraction narrative, and you don't skip it.

                        Is virtual queue perfect? Absolutely not, far from it! But it does not skip any of the above. You are still at Disneyland, not bypassing the queue and walking directly into the next vehicle like Six Flags.

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                        • #52
                          Originally posted by igmo View Post

                          None of the virtual queues work that way. You still wait in the queue at the attraction. When your time arrives in the virtual queue, that's when you -- and hundreds of other people -- start your wait at the end of the existing physical queue.
                          Then what exactly is the point of the virtual queue? Why should anyone use one?
                          Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Karalora View Post

                            Then what exactly is the point of the virtual queue? Why should anyone use one?
                            It's in part to prevent exorbitant physical lines that extend into walkways (much the same way that POTC does now into NOS). If virtual queues had been implemented when Indy was first introduced back in the '90s, you wouldn't have seen lines extending down and back up Main Street. With social distancing measures now, it makes more sense, especially with no indoor lines allowed.

                            Post-social distancing, though? That's been a debate for a long time as to the actual purpose of virtual queues.

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                            • #54
                              I am very much NOT a fan of VQ or Mobile ordering, ( to be fully honest I am not even a fan of Fast Pass even though I have held Max Passes the last several years). If I have to stand in a line with everyone else so be it,. Putting everyone in the same easily accessible scenario is the only path to equilibrium, when lines reach a certain length most people will move onto a shorter line elsewhere causing that line to likely be shorter upon their return. As a family man there is some magic about standing in line it might be a Dad thing but it allows my kids to engage with us parents in a comfortable relaxed environment where the only distraction is our surrounding of which often acts as conversation starter. Kind of like being in a car together on a road trip. I actually have many fond memories with my family and friends at the park that occurred while being inline or traversing the parks. If DLR thinks they are going to re-invent the wheel of what a theme park experience is I feel they are going to ruin things more than enhance them.
                              Last edited by Starcade; 06-11-2021, 07:44 AM.
                              Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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                              • #55
                                Originally posted by redoscar View Post

                                It's in part to prevent exorbitant physical lines that extend into walkways (much the same way that POTC does now into NOS). If virtual queues had been implemented when Indy was first introduced back in the '90s, you wouldn't have seen lines extending down and back up Main Street. With social distancing measures now, it makes more sense, especially with no indoor lines allowed.

                                Post-social distancing, though? That's been a debate for a long time as to the actual purpose of virtual queues.
                                That makes sense, I guess, but its usefulness seems limited to really unusual circumstances, and in the meantime you still need something for people to do while they wait for their appointment besides endlessly mill around in open walkways.
                                Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

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                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Karalora View Post
                                  That makes sense, I guess, but its usefulness seems limited to really unusual circumstances, and in the meantime you still need something for people to do while they wait for their appointment besides endlessly mill around in open walkways.
                                  The big reason Disney loves VQs is the old Pressler mall management wisdom, "The customer can't spend money when he's sitting on his wallet" (or standing in line for rides). VQs increase the amount of time people are on the walkways, where they'll pass potential points of sale -- shops, food venues, and (especially) high-markup ODV carts.

                                  "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                  it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                  together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                  designed to appeal to everyone."

                                  - Walt Disney

                                  "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                  - Michael Eisner

                                  "It's very symbiotic."
                                  - Bob Chapek

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                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                                    The big reason Disney loves VQs is the old Pressler mall management wisdom, "The customer can't spend money when he's sitting on his wallet" (or standing in line for rides). VQs increase the amount of time people are on the walkways, where they'll pass potential points of sale -- shops, food venues, and (especially) high-markup ODV carts.
                                    No, I get that. That it's lack of opportunity preventing people from spending more in the parks is one of the more out-of-touch assumptions being made here. Rich people really don't get how non-rich people live, do they?
                                    Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

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                                    • #58
                                      While I agree with a bunch of points in this thread about mobile order and spontaneity, I am not sure what you want Disney to do. If you lower park tickets to $50 per day the park will be max capacity every day and would not be enjoyable at all. And the fact that they raised annual passes that much - of course they did. They realized that they needed to as the parks were overflowing so they were trying to price some people out of the market for that level pass. I would love to have someone go back and search this site for how many posts were uploaded by someone saying "am so glad that we went on a blackout day for the so-cal passes."
                                      I think the future is going to be a huge rush of people for the next 6 months as things open, the money is flowing and there is so much pent up desire to do something. After the holidays most everyone will cut back on spending as they wait to see what happens to the economy as a whole. Not as much free cash flow and then you will see Disney start selling the multiday park tickets for out of town visitors at a discount to get the type of tourist that they want - ones who come in and spend for 3-5 days. If they can fill the parks with those I think the AP will be dead for a long time.

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                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Karalora View Post
                                        Rich people really don't get how non-rich people live, do they?
                                        Yes. I mean, it's either that or these just aren't the most luminous Glow-With-The-Show Ear Hats on the Emporium shelf, if you get my drift.

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                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Karalora View Post

                                          Then what exactly is the point of the virtual queue? Why should anyone use one?
                                          What is the point? Answered above.

                                          Why should anyone use one? For ROTR and Spider-Man, they are required. If you don't use the virtual queue for these two, you cannot ride. There is no standby line.

                                          So although we dislike the system, we have no choice if we want to experience those attractions. Therefore, every single person in the park uses them - which is the cause of my largest problem with the system. If the attraction had enough capacity to serve every guest in the course of the operating day - meaning you would be able to ride at SOME point, only the time of day was out of your control - I would have less problem with it. But in its current form, the lottery system makes it very possible that I would be unable to ride no matter how long I am willing to stand in the physical line. So even if I am willing to wait in line for an attraction from park opening until park close, I have a very good chance of being "blocked out" by people willing to wait only a small portion of that time (who would not have "blocked me" without the virtual queue).

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