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  • #21
    Avengers Campus definitely is making me concerned about the Splash Mountain reskin. If Disney cheaps out on it (i.e. reskinning Br'er Bear animatronics as Louis, doing nothing else, and calling it a day), I will descend into a permanent state of bitterness.
    Last edited by Captain Andy; 06-10-2021, 12:32 PM.

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    • #22
      I was thinking they should cover all the brown stucco areas with a sleek, mechanical silver. When I think "space fortress", I don't immediately think "earth tones" in art-deco style. The former Hollywood Tower Hotel is just still much too prevalent in Mission: Breakout's final design.

      Regarding Splash, I too hope they don't "cheap out" but I am less concerned about there being a "mountain" (isn't it a hill in the movie? Maybe it's only a "mountain" to the Critters in Critter Country?) near the New Orleans Square area because 1) there already is, it's Splash, 2) the new ride will still technically be in "Critter Country" and not NOS, just with characters from PatF and, 3) because this is Disneyland, where the literal Matterhorn exists next to Sleeping Beauty's Castle on old-America Main Street. It's not like Splash is in a land that is trying to be as hyper-immersive or canon-friendly as stuff like GE or AC. Besides, do we even know if they're going to keep the name Splash 'Mountain', yet?
      Last edited by Blurr; 06-10-2021, 12:41 PM.

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      • #23
        I understand the basis for reskinning ToT (non-IP vs. Disney IP). However, skinning it to GotG when there was an already established tower in the MCU as someone upthread mentioned just didn't make sense. Plus, what was the reasoning for reskinning GotG so fast if Avengers Campus was going to be built soon after and the tower was going to be incorporated into it?

        It seems WDW learned this lesson and has made their GotG ride have a much lower profile/appear less conspicuous than building a second tower in Florida. To be fair, WDW does have its fair share bad sightlines (World Showcase...), but those examples pale in comparison to the Guardians tower. If Stark/Avengers Tower had been built, at least WDI would have been able to hand wave the sightline as incorporating classic California, such as Carthay, with the newer, sleeker skyscrapers of California's large cities.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by redoscar View Post
          I understand the basis for reskinning ToT (non-IP vs. Disney IP). Plus, what was the reasoning for reskinning GotG so fast if Avengers Campus was going to be built soon after and the tower was going to be incorporated into it?
          Because Guardians of the Galaxy II was being released that same year and Chapek wanted the synergy.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by J. Thaddeus Toad View Post

            Because Guardians of the Galaxy II was being released that same year and Chapek wanted the synergy.
            ^This.

            Also because The Twilight Zone was a licensed property and as a result; something, something about Photopass not being able to turn a buck outside the Tower of Terror without Disney having to pay some minute royalties.
            Last edited by Blurr; 06-10-2021, 02:58 PM.

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            • #26
              ------

              When something as big of a decision as reskinning Splash Mountain is made, it's often a result of a confluence of several big reasons. The social reason was offered up to the public - controversial and debated at length on these forums. But the other 2 reasons shed better light on what to expect. Splash, one of the park's most popular rides with the biggest footprint, cannot promote IP, with absolutely no room for growth in their emerging markets like Disney+ (unlike the upcoming Tiana show). This is absolutely unacceptable for this regime, whom for years have already been testing expansion of IP into other popular attractions with no current associations, like Thunder Mountain and the Matterhorn.

              But perhaps the even bigger reason is because management has hated Splash Mountain for decades, which is extremely extremely expensive to maintain. It is filled with over one hundred ancient animatronics that were not designed for a water thrill ride. One of the main goals of the reskin is to get them the hell out of there and into the warehouse the country bears are currently rotting in. The vast majority of them are not going to survive the reskin.

              Here's what I'd expect based off the rumored storyline: 2 Tianna AAS, 1 AA of Facilier and Mama Odie, and 1 AA of Louis. The rest of the story of Louis trying to find his trumpet will be filled in with fiberglass figures with limited movement (think Snow White in Enchanted Wish) and projections and screens. Absolutely rule out new critter AAs - there's no chance they're going to spend money on new AAs that aren't principle characters. I think a few America Sings critters may remain in the riverboat scene, but other than that, they're probably going away because, again, getting rid of them and replacing them with tech that doesn't require the same maintenance like screens is the whole point of this.

              I hope Im wrong and they fill the mountain with dozens and dozens of new AA's, but I wouldn't expect it. The best we can hope for is something like Frozen Ever After, although Frozen is a much much bigger property than PATF so that makes me more concerned for the mountain.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post
                Avengers Campus definitely is making me concerned about the Splash Mountain reskin. If Disney cheaps out on it (i.e. reskinning Br'er Bear animatronics as Louis, doing nothing else, and calling it a day), I will descend into a permanent state of bitterness.
                As many have pointed out, Marvel is their most profitable IP, and they cheaped out.

                What makes anyone think they're not going to cheap out on PATF, which brings in a fraction of a fraction of the revenue Marvel does? It's not even the most popular princess franchise.

                Or maybe backlash to GE and Marvel Land, if there is any, will make them correct course?
                Last edited by J. Thaddeus Toad; 06-10-2021, 03:22 PM.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by merlinjones View Post

                  There is no way to re-theme Splash Mountain cheaply -
                  Chapek: Hold my beer

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by J. Thaddeus Toad View Post
                    What makes anyone think they're not going to cheap out on PATF, which brings in a fraction of a fraction of the revenue Marvel does? It's not even the most popular princess franchise.
                    Ah, but that's where you're wrong, for you see there is only one princess franchise, the Disney Princess franchise, of which Tiana is a part. There may be fewer small children calling her their favorite than some of the others, but what difference does it make? It's not as if Tiana is a character. She, like the other Princesses, is merely a sentient, mobile ballgown accessorized with jewelry, existing only to hypnotize children so that they pester their parents to buy them smaller versions of the same construct. All Princesses are part of the same collective, and therefore fundamentally equally popular. Only the colors of the gowns differ. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
                    Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by J. Thaddeus Toad View Post

                      Chapek: Hold my beer
                      The absolute worst thing that could happen would be an Incredicoaster-style reskin. Static or semi-static figures with minimal additional details and/or features sticking out like a sore thumb, like the Jack-Jacks on poles.

                      I think what PATF has in its favor is that it will be a highly scrutinized ride, given that part of the reason for the retheme is because of the controversial nature of the original ride source material and that they announced the ride in the middle of last June's protests. If Disney cheaps out on the ride when compared to its predecessor, they'll be called to the rug by the mainstream media.

                      Tower never had that luxury. Plus, for a sizeable portion of guests (unknown if its a majority), the new Guardians ride is more "fun" than the Tower of Terror. The fact that it's in a gaudy building doesn't impact overall guest satisfaction of the ride for most people.

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by redoscar View Post
                        I understand the basis for reskinning ToT (non-IP vs. Disney IP). However, skinning it to GotG when there was an already established tower in the MCU as someone upthread mentioned just didn't make sense. Plus, what was the reasoning for reskinning GotG so fast if Avengers Campus was going to be built soon after and the tower was going to be incorporated into it?
                        Originally posted by J. Thaddeus Toad View Post
                        Because Guardians of the Galaxy II was being released that same year and Chapek wanted the synergy.
                        Yep. Accounts vary from "frustrated" to "threw a fit" on how much anger he displayed when, as head of Parks, he belatedly learned that DLR had no Marvel attraction, but he certainly was not happy. WDI was ordered to pitch ideas that fit his ridiculously short deadline and shoestring budget. He picked the reskin.


                        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                        designed to appeal to everyone."

                        - Walt Disney

                        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                        - Michael Eisner

                        "It's very symbiotic."
                        - Bob Chapek

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by J. Thaddeus Toad View Post
                          ------
                          When something as big of a decision as reskinning Splash Mountain is made, it's often a result of a confluence of several big reasons. The social reason was offered up to the public - controversial and debated at length on these forums. But the other 2 reasons shed better light on what to expect. Splash, one of the park's most popular rides with the biggest footprint, cannot promote IP, with absolutely no room for growth in their emerging markets like Disney+ (unlike the upcoming Tiana show). This is absolutely unacceptable for this regime, whom for years have already been testing expansion of IP into other popular attractions with no current associations, like Thunder Mountain and the Matterhorn.

                          But perhaps the even bigger reason is because management has hated Splash Mountain for decades, which is extremely extremely expensive to maintain. It is filled with over one hundred ancient animatronics that were not designed for a water thrill ride. One of the main goals of the reskin is to get them the hell out of there and into the warehouse the country bears are currently rotting in. The vast majority of them are not going to survive the reskin.

                          Here's what I'd expect based off the rumored storyline: 2 Tianna AAS, 1 AA of Facilier and Mama Odie, and 1 AA of Louis. The rest of the story of Louis trying to find his trumpet will be filled in with fiberglass figures with limited movement (think Snow White in Enchanted Wish) and projections and screens. Absolutely rule out new critter AAs - there's no chance they're going to spend money on new AAs that aren't principle characters. I think a few America Sings critters may remain in the riverboat scene, but other than that, they're probably going away because, again, getting rid of them and replacing them with tech that doesn't require the same maintenance like screens is the whole point of this.
                          Don't forget "its a small world", the classic attraction featuring original multinational characters, which Disney decided needed Nemo, Woody, Stitch, and a bunch of other irrelevant characters thrown in. Sigh... I guess if that's what it takes to keep the attraction.

                          Sadly this post is probably the most accurate description of what we'll get. The thought of screens on Splash Mountain sends a chill down my spine, but its definitely coming. How else do you make up for subtracting animatronics and other physical elements?
                          Brian the Pooh

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Brian PieGuy View Post
                            How else do you make up for subtracting animatronics and other physical elements?
                            Exactly. Projections / screens tick most of the boxes in solving the problems of reskinning an attraction like Splash Mountain.

                            Don't forget the leader of the reskin, Charita Carter, is the same imagineer who led the development Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway (ironically projections are extremely suited for this ride because you are supposed to be in a 2d cartoon). Surely much of the same projection screen tech she developed for that ride is coming to Splash, especially since the R&D for it has mostly been done.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Karalora View Post

                              Ah, but that's where you're wrong, for you see there is only one princess franchise, the Disney Princess franchise, of which Tiana is a part. There may be fewer small children calling her their favorite than some of the others, but what difference does it make? It's not as if Tiana is a character. She, like the other Princesses, is merely a sentient, mobile ballgown accessorized with jewelry, existing only to hypnotize children so that they pester their parents to buy them smaller versions of the same construct. All Princesses are part of the same collective, and therefore fundamentally equally popular. Only the colors of the gowns differ. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
                              That is true...certainly in much of the marketing and merchandise, they're portrayed as a group, or a gang.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by J. Thaddeus Toad View Post

                                That is true...certainly in much of the marketing and merchandise, they're portrayed as a group, or a gang.
                                Nah man, if only...a gang of characters would at least be able to interact with each other, maybe have some new stories to tell. The Disney Princesses are marketed as a collective that are nonetheless completely isolated from each other. They're not even allowed to make eye contact on the toy packaging. Like I said, they're not even treated as characters, just pretty sparkly dresses. The fact that Tiana's story can tangentially be connected to the area theming in the southwestern corner of Disneyland is just a nice bonus; the point is that she's a Princess, and Princess merchandise is a major cash cow.
                                Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

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                                • #36
                                  The Disney storyline of why ‘The Collector’ put his building with imprisoned ‘Guardians’ at Avengers Campus might be one of the dumbest shoehorned ideas ever created for a themed land. The idea is as dumb as the building is ugly.

                                  From Disney:

                                  ”And with all of this action going on in one space, of course the Collector heard about this land and decided to relocate his The Tivan Collection from Knowhere to Avengers Campus.
                                  • His massive fortress has clearly impacted the land around it, with an oozing, glowing liquid spilling out from the building.”
                                  Last edited by iAMiRONMAN; 06-10-2021, 07:29 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Karalora View Post
                                    Nah man, if only...a gang of characters would at least be able to interact with each other, maybe have some new stories to tell. The Disney Princesses are marketed as a collective that are nonetheless completely isolated from each other. They're not even allowed to make eye contact on the toy packaging. Like I said, they're not even treated as characters, just pretty sparkly dresses. The fact that Tiana's story can tangentially be connected to the area theming in the southwestern corner of Disneyland is just a nice bonus; the point is that she's a Princess, and Princess merchandise is a major cash cow.
                                    Bingo. The Disney Princesses line grew to be a marketing monster when Chapek was head of Consumer Products, and is still growing.



                                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                                    - Walt Disney

                                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                    - Michael Eisner

                                    "It's very symbiotic."
                                    - Bob Chapek

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                                      Bingo. The Disney Princesses line grew to be a marketing monster when Chapek was head of Consumer Products, and is still growing.
                                      Also know -IMO- the Attraction change...will be done Cheap as possible.
                                      "Marketing and Merchandise" name of the game with Chapek !

                                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

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                                      • #39
                                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyC0X1z4J0U

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by iAMiRONMAN View Post
                                          The Disney storyline of why ‘The Collector’ put his building with imprisoned ‘Guardians’ at Avengers Campus might be one of the dumbest shoehorned ideas ever created for a themed land. The idea is as dumb as the building is ugly.

                                          From Disney:

                                          ”And with all of this action going on in one space, of course the Collector heard about this land and decided to relocate his The Tivan Collection from Knowhere to Avengers Campus.
                                          • His massive fortress has clearly impacted the land around it, with an oozing, glowing liquid spilling out from the building.”
                                          That's pretty bad. Not as bad as the explanation Chapek gave at D23 for why Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind fits at Epcot; he pulled up a picture of Chris Pratt visiting Epcot as a child. It was almost as if Disney was trolling the hardcore fans they knew would be upset about it.
                                          Brian the Pooh

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