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  • #21
    Please kill discounted admissions entirely, much less APs.

    Back when entering Disneyland forced you to commit to being in the park by costing a stiff price, you treated your day (and others) differently...better, frankly. There are enough old-timers here at MiceChat who recall this. You'd wave to passengers on the monorail passing by overhead and even every meal felt like part of a fun park attraction. In the same way, when you had ticket books, there wasn't an enormous rush (or lengthy queue) to just the e-ticket thrill rides, but attendance on rides was spread out across all classes of attractions. the park wasn't just about rides, rides rides. It was fun family experiences and adventures.

    It's like people who defend the Fastpass system because of how slow stand-by lines are, all the while forgetting that stand-by lines were never really that slow before Fastpass. Disneyland kind of painted itself into a corner thinking it would maximize profits and ended up reducing the revenue per guest visit, requiring MANY more guests (and crowds) to operate more profitably.

    That said, my prediction is the new system will not resemble ANYTHING like posts here are hoping for but will take its cue from other industries' affinity programs: accumulating miles on airlines or points at hotels. Something like: after visiting 10 days in Disneyland your 11th is free.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by vnormth View Post
      Please kill discounted admissions entirely, much less APs.

      Back when entering Disneyland forced you to commit to being in the park by costing a stiff price, you treated your day (and others) differently...better, frankly. There are enough old-timers here at MiceChat who recall this. You'd wave to passengers on the monorail passing by overhead and even every meal felt like part of a fun park attraction. In the same way, when you had ticket books, there wasn't an enormous rush (or lengthy queue) to just the e-ticket thrill rides, but attendance on rides was spread out across all classes of attractions. the park wasn't just about rides, rides rides. It was fun family experiences and adventures.

      It's like people who defend the Fastpass system because of how slow stand-by lines are, all the while forgetting that stand-by lines were never really that slow before Fastpass. Disneyland kind of painted itself into a corner thinking it would maximize profits and ended up reducing the revenue per guest visit, requiring MANY more guests (and crowds) to operate more profitably.

      That said, my prediction is the new system will not resemble ANYTHING like posts here are hoping for but will take its cue from other industries' affinity programs: accumulating miles on airlines or points at hotels. Something like: after visiting 10 days in Disneyland your 11th is free.
      X2
      I AGREE

      I think there to much hopeful thinking that AP's ,is going be the same .... IT IS NOT !
      We all going see a big change -and most are not going like it ........IMO
      Soaring like an EAGLE !

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by vnormth View Post
        Please kill discounted admissions entirely, much less APs.
        That said, my prediction is the new system will not resemble ANYTHING like posts here are hoping for but will take its cue from other industries' affinity programs: accumulating miles on airlines or points at hotels. Something like: after visiting 10 days in Disneyland your 11th is free.
        This system only works because most people who benefit travel for work so they accumulate points on other peoples dime. People do not travel to DLR for work so if they tried this it would likely fail. Other industries have tried this model and they have all since removed them as it doesn't move the needle.
        Last edited by Starcade; 06-29-2021, 08:02 AM.
        Disneyland Fan since the 70's

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by Starcade View Post

          This system only works because most people who benefit travel for work so they accumulate points on other peoples dime. People do not travel to DLR for work so if they tried this it would likely fail. Other industries have tried this model and they have all since removed them as it doesn't not move the needle.
          Baloney. Name one.

          Ever go to Starbucks and see their Starbucks rewards program?

          Here's how McDonald's is going to do a rewards program: https://michaelwtravels.boardingarea...%20Biscuit.%20

          Cedar Fair’s Pass Perks works like familiar restaurant, retailer and airline loyalty programs — the more you visit your local theme park, the more rewards you earn.

          Knott’s season passholders will be automatically enrolled in the Pass Perks loyalty program and will earn rewards with each visit. Pass Perks incentives include monthly drawings for exclusive theme park experiences, food and merchandise discounts and “bring a friend” ticket deals.

          Here's Universal orlando's loyalty rewards: https://orlandoinformer.com/2014/gui...alty-programs/

          I'll bet a Carthay Circle dinner that DLR will establish a guest loyalty rewards program rather than an annual pass type of program. First taker only.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by vnormth View Post

            Baloney. Name one.


            Remember in the 90's all the little key fobs for loyalty programs that littered everyone keychains every retailer had one, the few that are still around are often because the brands are stuck with the liability of the benefits. Most have been done away with.

            Also your examples are for small purchases ( mostly food ) not a major purchase like a $100+ per person them park admission. It is a different animal.
            Disneyland Fan since the 70's

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Starcade View Post

              Remember in the 90's all the little key fobs for loyalty programs that littered everyone keychains every retailer had one, the few that are still around are often because the brands are stuck with the liability of the benefits. Most have been done away with.

              Also your examples are for small purchases ( mostly food ) not a major purchase like a $100+ per person them park admission. It is a different animal.
              Your own logic contradicts yourself: If "everyone's keychains" had the little fobs, then evidently the programs worked!.

              Also, please actually read: I cited Kott's, Cedar Park and Universal Orlando...each and every one of them is >$100.

              Care to take my bet?

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                [/SIZE]

                This system only works because most people who benefit travel for work so they accumulate points on other peoples dime. People do not travel to DLR for work so if they tried this it would likely fail. Other industries have tried this model and they have all since removed them as it doesn't not move the needle.
                To be fair, in this case, Disney's hope would be that former AP's are so used to going to disney, that they would be willing to to commit to one of these types of plans, even if it didn't work for other industries.

                There's kind of a little bit of a question of classism and economics here. It's been hinted at here and there in comments concerning those who used payment plans verses up-front all at once, for those who just pay for parking verses those who park st artic or the mall and use buses or ride sharing to get to the resort.

                Disney's biggest thing here is, do they feel like AP's are made up of people who could afford multiple days at full price, and thus their plan would be a reward for their continued patronage. Or do they feel like the AP program has been a way to let locals, often with lower incomes than their cross state/country guests, have access to the parks. And if it's the later, are they willing to part with that low income audience and their consistent, if not lower, form of revenue. Alot of people seem to think it's the later, and have argued that the guests that would be lost have been part of the reason the park has lowered in quality in some places. Which is weird, because it's also been pointed out multiple times that the things they have been changed or removed was mostly stuff that would only be appreciated by "fans" and locals, maybe of which are part of that lower income bracket; and conversely, the over "IPing" of the parks is mostly for the once-in-a-lifetime, cross country, international, etc; guests.

                This is just a long way of saying. I don't "think" Disney would do a "buy 10 get 1" membership program. It only really benefits from locals, who don't really fit the income bracket to take advantage of such a peogram, as much as people seem to feel like Disney shouldn't be catering to those people. Which is why I point out their choices, often blamed on low income locals, are actually more inline with changes to appeal with non-locals and tourists; which this plan would also not really work for. Either way, I don't see it happen... Unless Disney knows something internally we all don't and would cause them to make this kind of choice.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by vnormth View Post

                  Your own logic contradicts yourself: If "everyone's keychains" had the little fobs, then evidently the programs worked!.

                  Also, please actually read: I cited Kott's, Cedar Park and Universal Orlando...each and every one of them is >$100.

                  Care to take my bet?
                  It's not really a contradiction, as they also pointed out that these programs have largely ended. Mostly replaced with points accumulation and coupons (see the numerous TikTok videos of people having laughing fits at the length of CVS receipts for those in their membership program). The idea expressed if that Disney would probably not benefit from such a program because the cost of Disney trips is too great for people to really accumulate enough to make use of such a program.

                  To lean in, this is also the reason why the discounts only exist WITH their AP program (or the visa and vacation club) since those are being used by default, and Disney is essentially saying "hey, while you're on property, why not buy stuff, you get a discount since you have an AP/VC card."

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by vnormth View Post

                    Your own logic contradicts yourself: If "everyone's keychains" had the little fobs, then evidently the programs worked!.

                    Also, please actually read: I cited Kott's, Cedar Park and Universal Orlando...each and every one of them is >$100.

                    Care to take my bet?
                    The fobs were popular ( pass tense, not currently, no contradiction ) because the programs were new 20 years ago because it was free to sign up they had numbers at first, but people quickly realized the junk mail and lugging around a tiny keychain was not worth it (that is how lil consumers value this promotional style) and most have signed out of these programs. Even when somebody mentioned this a while ago people mocked the idea you likely missed it.

                    The other places you mentioned are for discounts on food and merchandise not a straight up discount on admission which is what we are discussing.

                    Also I do not wager with randos on the internet that is foolish endeavor. I would have no way of obtaining my winnings as unless DLR stops playing games and provides half of the previous guests with something near what they had most of them myself included will likely never return. Not to mention I believe gambling might violate Micechats rules.

                    If your right, hey good for you, you get to spend more for less and most of us here who are LP's will likely disappear from the parks as well as Micechat and then everyone who wants nothing but to say DLR is infallible and keep paying more and more can continue on their happy way. Everyone will be fine not matter what happens (well except certain DLR execs and CM's they may soon be looking for a new gig when everything implodes.
                    Last edited by Starcade; 06-28-2021, 03:12 PM.
                    Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by SkunkID View Post

                      Either way, I don't see it happen... Unless Disney knows something internally we all don't and would cause them to make this kind of choice.
                      ...or simply chapek is drinking his own kool-aid and thinks he can do something much more talented people before knew was not feasible. He thinks this will be his opus but if he does not right the ship it will likely be his swan song.
                      Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Starcade View Post

                        ...or simply chapek is drinking his own kool-aid and thinks he can do something much more talented people before knew was not feasible. He thinks this will be his opus but if he does not right the ship it will likely be his swan song.
                        See, the funny thing is, in the past, I would assume most companies would want to try and save face, always present as if they were doing things for like, the good of their customer base, and at least make profit off of efforts to bring even lower income people into the park and we'll them a churro or a 4 dollar bottle of water.

                        But given how things have gone so far, a part of me does infact think that Chapek might actually be willing to just, work against the tide and logic in general. He might just take the wrong message of everything we have seen so far during the quarantine and just decide to make a gesture that amounts to "why yes, you are too poor to enter the parks, and we will make no effort to even try and sell to you. We will feed upon the shrinking pool of people who can still go and extract what we can while we can."

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I think the lowest tier passes will have a limited number of reservations they are allowed to make with 5 percent discounts offered at most dining and shopping locations
                          The higher the tier the more reservations you'll be allowed to make per year and Im gonna go off a limb here and even say that the top tier pass will have no reservations/no blockouts/ you can just show up and enter the park whenever

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Ducktale14 View Post
                            I think the lowest tier passes will have a limited number of reservations they are allowed to make with 5 percent discounts offered at most dining and shopping locations
                            The higher the tier the more reservations you'll be allowed to make per year and Im gonna go off a limb here and even say that the top tier pass will have no reservations/no blockouts/ you can just show up and enter the park whenever
                            That's what I'm guessing too. If people have limited visits to Disneyland each year, they're more likely to be there all day and spend money.
                            Brian the Pooh

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by SkunkID View Post

                              See, the funny thing is, in the past, I would assume most companies would want to try and save face, always present as if they were doing things for like, the good of their customer base, and at least make profit off of efforts to bring even lower income people into the park and we'll them a churro or a 4 dollar bottle of water.

                              But given how things have gone so far, a part of me does infact think that Chapek might actually be willing to just, work against the tide and logic in general. He might just take the wrong message of everything we have seen so far during the quarantine and just decide to make a gesture that amounts to "why yes, you are too poor to enter the parks, and we will make no effort to even try and sell to you. We will feed upon the shrinking pool of people who can still go and extract what we can while we can."
                              I would not argue against this theory as it truly has merit.
                              Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by SkunkID View Post
                                See, the funny thing is, in the past, I would assume most companies would want to try and save face, always present as if they were doing things for like, the good of their customer base, and at least make profit off of efforts to bring even lower income people into the park and we'll them a churro or a 4 dollar bottle of water.

                                But given how things have gone so far, a part of me does infact think that Chapek might actually be willing to just, work against the tide and logic in general. He might just take the wrong message of everything we have seen so far during the quarantine and just decide to make a gesture that amounts to "why yes, you are too poor to enter the parks, and we will make no effort to even try and sell to you. We will feed upon the shrinking pool of people who can still go and extract what we can while we can."
                                One wonders if Chapek may be trying to ride this pony:

                                The post-covid luxury spending boom has begun. It’s already reshaping the economy.

                                Some quotes:

                                Retailers, entertainment venues and more are eager for the rich to spend $2.5 trillion in savings. Brands are trying to move upmarket to capitalize on this high-end spending surge....

                                Even as unemployment falls and wages rise in the coming months, businesses across the economy will increasingly cater to the upper class, economists and business executives say....

                                Already, nearly 40 percent of overall consumer spending comes from the top fifth of earners — households that earn at least $120,000 a year. By contrast, the bottom 20 percent of households account for just 9 percent of all spending, and most of that goes toward universal needs including food, housing and transportation.

                                This disparity is only set to deepen. Thanks to stock market gains, stimulus and a pandemic recession that largely bypassed white-collar jobs, Americans were able to save an estimated $2.5 trillion more than usual since the pandemic began, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Additionally, the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans added more than $8 trillion to their net worth, according to the Federal Reserve, as stocks and home values soared in 2020.

                                “Higher-income folks are accumulating a lot of savings. They will spend more going forward and that will further create an incentive for companies to cater to higher-income folks even more,” said Raj Chetty, a professor of economics at Harvard University and a leading researcher on inequality.

                                High-income consumer spending rebounded fully in March and is now up 11 percent above pre-covid levels, according to data from Opportunity Insights, in a potential preview of what is to come. This year, consumer spending could grow at the fastest pace since 1946, according to economists surveyed by Wolters Kluwer’s Blue Chip Economic Indicators....

                                The fastest-growing spending categories, so far this year, are the ones where the highest-income Americans typically dominate the market. Live entertainment is up 60 percent, amusement parks and related recreation is up 54 percent, membership clubs are up 45 percent and hotels are up 33 percent, according to Bureau of Economic Analysis data through April....

                                Discretionary spending by the top 20 percent on fun purchases like pets, toys and hobbies rose 3.4 percentage points to 38.5 percent of that overall category. In another category that includes hotels and vacation homes, where the top 20 percent were already dominant, they gained even more ground, reaching 59 percent of spending overall....

                                “The post pandemic will see a very strong movement toward the most affluent in terms of product development and services, and so on, compared to those who don’t have the affluence needed to engage in travel,” said Robertico Croes, director of the Dick Pope Sr. Institute for Tourism Studies at the University of Central Florida. “Travel is inherently a luxury item.”...


                                "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                designed to appeal to everyone."

                                - Walt Disney

                                "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                - Michael Eisner

                                "It's very symbiotic."
                                - Bob Chapek

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                                  One wonders if Chapek may be trying to ride this pony:

                                  The post-covid luxury spending boom has begun. It’s already reshaping the economy.

                                  Some quotes:

                                  Retailers, entertainment venues and more are eager for the rich to spend $2.5 trillion in savings. Brands are trying to move upmarket to capitalize on this high-end spending surge....

                                  Even as unemployment falls and wages rise in the coming months, businesses across the economy will increasingly cater to the upper class, economists and business executives say....

                                  Already, nearly 40 percent of overall consumer spending comes from the top fifth of earners — households that earn at least $120,000 a year. By contrast, the bottom 20 percent of households account for just 9 percent of all spending, and most of that goes toward universal needs including food, housing and transportation.

                                  This disparity is only set to deepen. Thanks to stock market gains, stimulus and a pandemic recession that largely bypassed white-collar jobs, Americans were able to save an estimated $2.5 trillion more than usual since the pandemic began, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Additionally, the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans added more than $8 trillion to their net worth, according to the Federal Reserve, as stocks and home values soared in 2020.

                                  “Higher-income folks are accumulating a lot of savings. They will spend more going forward and that will further create an incentive for companies to cater to higher-income folks even more,” said Raj Chetty, a professor of economics at Harvard University and a leading researcher on inequality.

                                  High-income consumer spending rebounded fully in March and is now up 11 percent above pre-covid levels, according to data from Opportunity Insights, in a potential preview of what is to come. This year, consumer spending could grow at the fastest pace since 1946, according to economists surveyed by Wolters Kluwer’s Blue Chip Economic Indicators....

                                  The fastest-growing spending categories, so far this year, are the ones where the highest-income Americans typically dominate the market. Live entertainment is up 60 percent, amusement parks and related recreation is up 54 percent, membership clubs are up 45 percent and hotels are up 33 percent, according to Bureau of Economic Analysis data through April....

                                  Discretionary spending by the top 20 percent on fun purchases like pets, toys and hobbies rose 3.4 percentage points to 38.5 percent of that overall category. In another category that includes hotels and vacation homes, where the top 20 percent were already dominant, they gained even more ground, reaching 59 percent of spending overall....

                                  “The post pandemic will see a very strong movement toward the most affluent in terms of product development and services, and so on, compared to those who don’t have the affluence needed to engage in travel,” said Robertico Croes, director of the Dick Pope Sr. Institute for Tourism Studies at the University of Central Florida. “Travel is inherently a luxury item.”...

                                  By George ,
                                  I think IMO this what going on......
                                  "Incentive for companies to cater to higher-income folks even more"
                                  Sure looks like Disney , is on this roadto me !
                                  Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                                    One wonders if Chapek may be trying to ride this pony:

                                    The post-covid luxury spending boom has begun. It’s already reshaping the economy.

                                    Some quotes:

                                    Retailers, entertainment venues and more are eager for the rich to spend $2.5 trillion in savings. Brands are trying to move upmarket to capitalize on this high-end spending surge....

                                    Even as unemployment falls and wages rise in the coming months, businesses across the economy will increasingly cater to the upper class, economists and business executives say....

                                    Already, nearly 40 percent of overall consumer spending comes from the top fifth of earners — households that earn at least $120,000 a year. By contrast, the bottom 20 percent of households account for just 9 percent of all spending, and most of that goes toward universal needs including food, housing and transportation.

                                    This disparity is only set to deepen. Thanks to stock market gains, stimulus and a pandemic recession that largely bypassed white-collar jobs, Americans were able to save an estimated $2.5 trillion more than usual since the pandemic began, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Additionally, the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans added more than $8 trillion to their net worth, according to the Federal Reserve, as stocks and home values soared in 2020.

                                    “Higher-income folks are accumulating a lot of savings. They will spend more going forward and that will further create an incentive for companies to cater to higher-income folks even more,” said Raj Chetty, a professor of economics at Harvard University and a leading researcher on inequality.

                                    High-income consumer spending rebounded fully in March and is now up 11 percent above pre-covid levels, according to data from Opportunity Insights, in a potential preview of what is to come. This year, consumer spending could grow at the fastest pace since 1946, according to economists surveyed by Wolters Kluwer’s Blue Chip Economic Indicators....

                                    The fastest-growing spending categories, so far this year, are the ones where the highest-income Americans typically dominate the market. Live entertainment is up 60 percent, amusement parks and related recreation is up 54 percent, membership clubs are up 45 percent and hotels are up 33 percent, according to Bureau of Economic Analysis data through April....

                                    Discretionary spending by the top 20 percent on fun purchases like pets, toys and hobbies rose 3.4 percentage points to 38.5 percent of that overall category. In another category that includes hotels and vacation homes, where the top 20 percent were already dominant, they gained even more ground, reaching 59 percent of spending overall....

                                    “The post pandemic will see a very strong movement toward the most affluent in terms of product development and services, and so on, compared to those who don’t have the affluence needed to engage in travel,” said Robertico Croes, director of the Dick Pope Sr. Institute for Tourism Studies at the University of Central Florida. “Travel is inherently a luxury item.”...

                                    No surprise...a middle class like the 1940s/50s North American one, the one that many of us define as middle class, has existed in human history for a whole 70 years. Outside of this tiny time period you were either wealthy or you were poor. Just look at income disparity in America over the last decade.....we are quickly headed back towards a historical norm, rich and poor.

                                    In terms of Disney, a Disneyland vacation is quickly becoming one for the affluent only, much like most travel is becoming; no surprises about where Disney is going to play it’s hand.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                                      No surprise...a middle class like the 1940s/50s North American one, the one that many of us define as middle class, has existed in human history for a whole 70 years. Outside of this tiny time period you were either wealthy or you were poor. Just look at income disparity in America over the last decade.....we are quickly headed back towards a historical norm, rich and poor.

                                      In terms of Disney, a Disneyland vacation is quickly becoming one for the affluent only, much like most travel is becoming; no surprises about where Disney is going to play it’s hand.
                                      Agreed. I think a lot of people don't realize this. The "middle class" being able to afford a comfortable lifestyle - two cars, 3/4 BR house, and one parent working - is a special thing that only occurred for a short period of time. It'll be interesting to see how DLR evolves. I agree that it could be moving towards becoming a luxury item.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                                        One wonders if Chapek may be trying to ride this pony:

                                        The post-covid luxury spending boom has begun. It’s already reshaping the economy.
                                        This is a more of a wave or bubble than a pony. Many are pointing to this as the cause of the next stock market crash that many are saying is likely happening in the early months of 2022 when the honeymoon wears off and the wealthy have had their fun and go back to their normal levels of spend. This is all released pent up demand, to think it will be the new norm by some CEO's is short sighted. We took our savings ( many of it from not going to DLR for over a year ) and remodeled our family room and kitchen bought new TV's, appliances and computers etc. now we are returning back to spending as if was pre-covid we splurged and now we have cooled our jets and getting back to a more normal amount of spending. I am evidently based the article in the top 1/5 of earners and to be honest I do not take pride in this, I do not see myself as wealthy and the fact that many Americans work so hard and they can't even achieve what I feel is a middle class status is depressing.

                                        So chapek is riding this wave, all waves crash, when this wave does likely within 6 months then what is the game plan then? I wonder if his hubris even allows him to have a backup if this surge isn't permanent like he seems to be acting?

                                        Has DLR ever in it's history lowered the pricing on their entry tickets?
                                        Last edited by Starcade; 07-06-2021, 04:31 PM.
                                        Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I think all future passes/memberships will be like the Flex Pass. Different tiers allows you to hold more reservations than others. All will have blackout dates, all will include some sort of discount for food and merch purchases but only the highest tier will include parking.
                                          I can even see Disney copying Universal's free parking policy and only allowing free parking before a certain time (6pm? 7pm?) This would cut down on the crush of AP'ers that would overwhelm the parks after dark for people trying to catch nighttime entertainment (fireworks, WOC, parades, etc.)
                                          Heres what I'm thinking:
                                          Flex Pass Max= Can hold up to 4 reservations at a time (Blackout dates apply), parking included (Only until 6pm), 20% discount on food and merchandise
                                          Flex Pass Plus= Can hold up to 3 reservations at a time (Blackout dates apply), No Parking, 15% discount on food and merchandise
                                          Flex Pass= Can hold only 2 reservations at a time (Blackout dates apply), No Parking, 10% discount on food and merchandise

                                          I cant see Disney going back to the days of a pass with unlimited visits included. At least not right now.
                                          Out of the NIGHT....
                                          When the full moon is BRIGHT!!
                                          Comes a horseman known as ZORRO!!!
                                          ---------------------------------------

                                          Comment

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