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  • #41
    Originally posted by Starcade View Post

    Has DLR ever in it's history lowered the pricing on their entry tickets?
    I do not think so.......That I recall !

    Soaring like an EAGLE !

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Starcade View Post

      This is a more of a wave or bubble than a pony. Many are pointing to this as the cause of the next stock market crash that many are saying is likely happening in the early months of 2023 when the honeymoon wears off and the wealthy have had their fun and go back to their normal levels of spend. This is all released pent up demand, to think it will be the new norm by some CEO's is short sighted. We took our savings ( many of it from not going to DLR for over a year ) and remodeled our family room and kitchen bought new TV's, appliances and computers etc. now we are returning back to spending as if was pre-covid we splurged and now we have cooled our jets and getting back to a more normal amount of spending. I am evidently based the article in the top 1/5 of earners and to be honest I do not take pride in this, I do not see myself as wealthy and the fact that many Americans work so hard and they can't even achieve what I feel is a middle class status is depressing.

      So chapek is riding this wave, all waves crash, when this wave does likely within 6 months then what is the game plan then? I wonder if his hubris even allows him to have a backup if this surge isn't permeant net like he seems to be acting?

      Has DLR ever in it's history lowered the pricing on their entry tickets?
      Part of the point being made in the conversation I think is not so much that Disney is soaking in those top earner dollars it’s that even with price reductions and changes a vast swathe of Americans will never ever be able to go to the parks.

      It’s not really a wave in a macro economics sense, it’s been a slow burn since the 1980s that has seen a gradual erosion of the purchasing power of 98% of wage earners in North America. Statistically speaking when Disneyland opened it opened at the greatest economic parity in human history. That time is quickly passing us by. Just look at real estate in SoCal, the people starting out now will be putting dollars that used to go to Disney and entertainment to a roof over their heads.

      The question becomes, why would Disney continue to attempt and bring in lower earners with lower tier passes etc. when every statistic points to the fact that this group of earners won’t have the extra cash to spend in the parks. There’s likely going to be a shift as the article suggests, but it’s not going to be a little wave; we’ve been headed towards a much greater sense of haves and have nots for thirty years; it’s just coming to a head now.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

        Part of the point being made in the conversation I think is not so much that Disney is soaking in those top earner dollars it’s that even with price reductions and changes a vast swathe of Americans will never ever be able to go to the parks.

        It’s not really a wave in a macro economics sense, it’s been a slow burn since the 1980s that has seen a gradual erosion of the purchasing power of 98% of wage earners in North America. Statistically speaking when Disneyland opened it opened at the greatest economic parity in human history. That time is quickly passing us by. Just look at real estate in SoCal, the people starting out now will be putting dollars that used to go to Disney and entertainment to a roof over their heads.

        The question becomes, why would Disney continue to attempt and bring in lower earners with lower tier passes etc. when every statistic points to the fact that this group of earners won’t have the extra cash to spend in the parks. There’s likely going to be a shift as the article suggests, but it’s not going to be a little wave; we’ve been headed towards a much greater sense of haves and have nots for thirty years; it’s just coming to a head now.
        My comments of a surge are more based on human nature than how wealthy people are. There is a buying frenzy right now with those in the $120K households and up. Those people have been held back from certain types of spending due to Covid restrictions that are now virtually gone in many cases. Now they are free to begin doing and buying a years worth of pent up desire in about 6 months time. Right now on my street alone every third house has a contractor parked out front as everyone is now taking their money saved during covid and putting into new backyards, new kitchens new baths etc.. The others are going on vacations (mostly Hawaii). All of our contractors have told us they have never seen anything like it and they are all booked up and supplies are even becoming hard to come by in some cases. This was not happening in summer 2019 pre covid with a supposed great economy for the top earners going on in fact we had our house painted back then and all the contractors seem to be wide open on availability. There has been an up creep over the last 5 years but this current buying level is far beyond that up creep and it ls temporary.

        Those in the top percentages will all buy what they wanted and go where they wanted to go and then that spending will reseed dramatically back to pre covid levels. This is something that may likely lead to a recessions of sorts. When this happens there will not be enough of the high earners still interested in DLR to fill the place and then they are going to have to change course and doing so with an entity as large as DLR is not going to be easy to do without potential long term brand damage. Again many if not the majority of those no longer going are not those that can't easily afford it, it's simply they refuse to be exploited as they require a certain level of value to their dollar. Those that have so much money they no longer care about value on anything are often not the same people who would consider a DLR vacation. They would more likely go to DL Paris than DL Anaheim.

        Also I wouldn't be surprised if DLR keeps their apparent pricing strategy going that many lower income earners (mostly younger people) who used be able to visit could soon start a social media campaign with the feeling of "If you don't want me in your parks then I don't want your merchandise." The Disney brand could become a negative for a whole generation. Disney succeeded the most when they took an inclusive stance destroying that goodwill is a dangerous game that could very well have long term consequences.
        Last edited by Starcade; 06-30-2021, 08:09 AM.
        Disneyland Fan since the 70's

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

          Part of the point being made in the conversation I think is not so much that Disney is soaking in those top earner dollars it’s that even with price reductions and changes a vast swathe of Americans will never ever be able to go to the parks.

          It’s not really a wave in a macro economics sense, it’s been a slow burn since the 1980s that has seen a gradual erosion of the purchasing power of 98% of wage earners in North America. Statistically speaking when Disneyland opened it opened at the greatest economic parity in human history. That time is quickly passing us by. Just look at real estate in SoCal, the people starting out now will be putting dollars that used to go to Disney and entertainment to a roof over their heads.

          The question becomes, why would Disney continue to attempt and bring in lower earners with lower tier passes etc. when every statistic points to the fact that this group of earners won’t have the extra cash to spend in the parks. There’s likely going to be a shift as the article suggests, but it’s not going to be a little wave; we’ve been headed towards a much greater sense of haves and have nots for thirty years; it’s just coming to a head now.
          This is very very true, sobering and scary, but very true.

          Originally posted by Starcade View Post

          ... There is a buying frenzy right now with those in the $120K households and up. Those people have been held back from certain types of spending due to Covid restrictions that are now virtually gone in many cases. ...There has been an up creep over the last 5 years but this current buying level is far beyond that up creep and it ls temporary.

          Those in the top percentages will all buy what they wanted and go where they wanted to go and then that spending will reseed dramatically back to pre covid levels. This is something that may likely lead to a recessions of sorts. When this happens there will not be enough of the high earners still interested in DLR to fill the place and then they are going to have to change course and doing so with an entity as large as DLR is not going to be easy to do without potential long term brand damage. Again many if not the majority of those no longer going are not those that can't easily afford it, it's simply they refuse to be exploited as they require a certain level of value to their dollar. Those that have so much money they no longer care about value on anything are often not the same people who would consider a DLR vacation. They would more likely go to DL Paris than DL Anaheim.
          There is a monumental shift going on. We left a country in South America that underwent massive income inequality and ushered in a transformation. I wont say anything political but what we've seen go on in the US has changed the face of the social contract from when we arrived here. Have and have nots are farther than ever in modern history.

          Who knows what will happen with DLR, but I don't see much return by lower income earners and the crowd around here, Newport Coast, seem less enamored with the parks than they did before and see them as mediocre and passe to be quite frank. If (big IF) and when they decide to do a Disney vacation, it will be in Japan, China, or Europe. Chapek, if not by name, has really diminished the perceived value of the parks.
          Last edited by Golden Zephyr; 06-30-2021, 09:35 AM.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post
            There is a monumental shift going on. We left a country in South America that underwent massive income inequality and ushered in a transformation. I wont say anything political but what we've seen go on in the US has changed the face of the social contract from when we arrived here. Have and have nots are farther than ever in modern history.

            Who knows what will happen with DLR, but I don't see much return by lower income earners and the crowd around here, Newport Coast, seem less enamored with the parks than they did before and see them as mediocre and passe to be quite frank. If (big IF) and when they decide to do a Disney vacation, it will be in Japan, China, or Europe. Chapek, if not by name, has really diminished the perceived value of the parks.
            I agree there is a shift I have many relatives that live in South America and they keep warning me of the last days of their true democracies and how they see similarities in ours currently.

            I also agree truly wealthy people are not as enamored with DLR as chapek thinks they are and trying to sell to them exclusively will be his and the parks downfall if they continue. Disney is Ford/Chevy not Ferrari/Bentley. Even Tesla is smart enough to know the real money and growth is with lower end vehicles sold in mass than it is with just luxury S's and X's. Disney is too big a brand to make itself a luxury destination and it's location will not support it either. Is it expensive? A: Sure is, it has been since the 70's. However thinking it's going to cater exclusively to those used to staying at the Four Seasons, Fairmont or the Ritz is a foolish endeavor on DLR's part.
            Last edited by Starcade; 06-30-2021, 02:02 PM.
            Disneyland Fan since the 70's

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post

              This is very very true, sobering and scary, but very true.



              There is a monumental shift going on. We left a country in South America that underwent massive income inequality and ushered in a transformation. I wont say anything political but what we've seen go on in the US has changed the face of the social contract from when we arrived here. Have and have nots are farther than ever in modern history.

              Who knows what will happen with DLR, but I don't see much return by lower income earners and the crowd around here, Newport Coast, seem less enamored with the parks than they did before and see them as mediocre and passe to be quite frank. If (big IF) and when they decide to do a Disney vacation, it will be in Japan, China, or Europe. Chapek, if not by name, has really diminished the perceived value of the parks.
              Geeee YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.........My Friend
              and I rather be Newport Beach and long the Coast, Food is great it is relaxing
              Enjoying the Bay........even shop
              and lot closer to me and cheaper...............(and I do not play ,with my phone)
              "There more to Life than Disney"
              Soaring like an EAGLE !

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Eagleman View Post

                Geeee YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.........My Friend
                and I rather be Newport Beach and long the Coast, Food is great it is relaxing
                Enjoying the Bay........even shop
                and lot closer to me and cheaper...............(and I do not play ,with my phone)
                "There more to Life than Disney"

                The hotels in Newport Beach offer luxury accommodations and top notch everything for high end prices. Disney offers moderate accommodations and (compared to Newport Beach) overall poor food and weak service for high end prices. People with money won't tolerate Disney. High end customers are fickle and very demanding. And they take their money elsewhere when they don't get what they want.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by tarheelalum View Post


                  The hotels in Newport Beach offer luxury accommodations and top notch everything for high end prices. Disney offers moderate accommodations and (compared to Newport Beach) overall poor food and weak service for high end prices. People with money won't tolerate Disney. High end customers are fickle and very demanding. And they take their money elsewhere when they don't get what they want.
                  You Got It.........
                  High end customers......"just laugh there head off"-when they hear Disney name
                  They have better things they rater to do ,than mess with Disneyland.........
                  Like take a boat trip and see real life
                  as for my self.....I live next door city to it......20 min's the most
                  and know many part of Newport to go to get away.......RELAX..........cheaper
                  PS:
                  I would not say I have lot's of Money
                  But most people who ,I encounter there of all age's -do not make me out of place.....
                  Last edited by Eagleman; 06-30-2021, 07:36 PM.
                  Soaring like an EAGLE !

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by tarheelalum View Post
                    The hotels in Newport Beach offer luxury accommodations and top notch everything for high end prices. Disney offers moderate accommodations and (compared to Newport Beach) overall poor food and weak service for high end prices. People with money won't tolerate Disney. High end customers are fickle and very demanding. And they take their money elsewhere when they don't get what they want.
                    Spot on. And now comes the time of waiting and watching to see if the So Cal customers Disney drives away take their business to the competition -- and what (if anything) Disney does to get them back.

                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                    - Walt Disney

                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                    - Michael Eisner

                    "It's very symbiotic."
                    - Bob Chapek

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                      Spot on. And now comes the time of waiting and watching to see if the So Cal customers Disney drives away take their business to the competition -- and what (if anything) Disney does to get them back.
                      I'm Laughing.......
                      For Years Now -Most of the time in a conversation , I have with others .............
                      When you bring up the name Disney- or Disneyland.......
                      I hear the word "GREED"
                      Today Leadership have has really diminished ,the perceived value of the parks!

                      I VOTE with my wallet IMO
                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                        Spot on. And now comes the time of waiting and watching to see if the So Cal customers Disney drives away take their business to the competition -- and what (if anything) Disney does to get them back.
                        It's not an if but how many. So far in my circle of local DLR families of a half dozen or more 100% have decided to take their business elsewhere. All of them are in the $120K+ per household income bracket. I can't say this enough it isn't about being able to afford the parks, for many of the previous AP'ers we simply refuse to play chapek's price gouge game and are willing to wait out what may be his very short tenure if that is what it takes to return to the parks without feeling exploited.
                        Last edited by Starcade; 07-01-2021, 08:51 AM.
                        Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Starcade View Post

                          It's not an if but how many. So far in my circle of local DLR families of a half dozen or more 100% have decided to take their business elsewhere. All of them are in the $120K+ per household income bracket. I can't say this enough it isn't about being able to afford the parks, for many of the previous AP'ers we simply refuse to play chapek's price gouge game and are willing to wait out what may be his very short tenure if that is what it takes to return to the parks without feeling exploited.
                          Yes 100% That is the same here with many people who I know as well. What has struck me is how quickly that desire just flipped like a light switch. No lamenting, no angst, just simply, no, not interested. Desire just evaporated. These are people of means, DLR could be $1000 entry price and that would be of no consequence, it is about quality and value. They see it as vastly overpriced for quality received. When I can eat at Marche Moderne for less than some meals at the park, you start getting into ridiculous territory.

                          Don't even start on the hotels, absolutely laughable.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Starcade View Post

                            It's not an if but how many. So far in my circle of local DLR families of a half dozen or more 100% have decided to take their business elsewhere. All of them are in the $120K+ per household income bracket. I can't say this enough it isn't about being able to afford the parks, for many of the previous AP'ers we simply refuse to play chapek's price gouge game and are willing to wait out what may be his very short tenure if that is what it takes to return to the parks without feeling exploited.
                            I def agree, as my family and I also fall into that category. Just so sick of always having to pay more for less...just because its Disney!
                            Im def going to show support for other adventures and businesses as we felt so let down our last trip...not even our kids want to come back any time soon.
                            Also had us thinking....I mean come on, were all adults here right? Why are we spending sooooo much money on a bunch of fictional cartoon characters and rides we have rode a 1000 x.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post

                              Yes 100% That is the same here with many people who I know as well. What has struck me is how quickly that desire just flipped like a light switch. No lamenting, no angst, just simply, no, not interested. Desire just evaporated. These are people of means, DLR could be $1000 entry price and that would be of no consequence, it is about quality and value. They see it as vastly overpriced for quality received. When I can eat at Marche Moderne for less than some meals at the park, you start getting into ridiculous territory.

                              Don't even start on the hotels, absolutely laughable.
                              Spot on in regards to how fast people are able to take DLR off their plans for the future. I think 2017-2019 the price hikes were so severe many of us already felt like we were being exploited and this latest gouge was the last straw for many. We all have experienced many actual luxury vacations and events, we know those were expensive but we were treated like royalty and entertained at levels and locations far above DLR's ability. We all vastly enjoy a day (or half day) at the parks and because of our AP's were willing to simply go and spend without concern of price when we did unless we were thinking of pulling the trigger on a full sized R2-D2 which if not for my wife stepping in would be in my living room today lol!

                              I think there is a segment that can't afford true luxury vacations but can squeeze out a DLR vacation maybe one every other year. They do not know how much they could get from their spend elsewhere because they unfortunately do not have the experience of a true high end resort. Those folks are now visiting the park at double the rate because now all of them are coming the same year where in the past they were often staggered. DLR may very well know this and they simply do not care. They are selling it as a new boom in business that they are trying make sound sustainable because chapek and co's bonuses are dependent on it. I truly think it's a when and not if we will see a dramatic drop off in attendance. Maybe not post 9/11 levels but it will feel close. Sometime I wonder if DLR's hesitancy to staff up is because they know this is coming and they do not want to be over staffed when the surge ends? I keep envisioning the Coyote (DLR) chasing the Road Runner (price hikes) off of the cliff (guest volume) the edge is coming.

                              Unfortunately this problem they are about to deal with will largely be their own doing, Meanwhile their competition is seeing dramatic increases in attendance at their parks that is sustainable because they locked folks into annual passes. We know several people who simply wanted to go to Knotts once but spent the extra $40 on a AP just incase they wanted to go back a 2nd or 3rd time the gamble was worth the extra $40. Many will never return and end up over paying but $40 is not something these people will lose sleep over.
                              Last edited by Starcade; 07-01-2021, 04:21 PM.
                              Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post

                                Don't even start on the hotels, absolutely laughable.
                                Agreed on the hotels. I went to WDW growing up, so the hotels there made sense because the property is so enormous that the closest non-Disney hotel was a considerable drive.

                                DLR, on the other hand, is an entirely different story. I'm still surprised people spend the $ that they do to stay at the hotels there when you have hotels on Harbor that are closer than Paradise Pier and Disneyland Hotel for 1/4th the cost. To each their own.

                                What really upset me when our APs expired in 2019 is the removal of entertainment. That's what made us not renew. If DL will stick with no APs, I'd be somewhat tempted to go annually if they brought back the entertainment and cranked it up to the next level - parades, fireworks, Fantasmic, World of Color, the news boys, etc.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  More people is learning, There more to LIFE.....than Disney
                                  After being close for a year...They doing other things ,taken life on a better road,
                                  For there vacation going to other place's
                                  and do it lot cheaper and ENJOYING and Relaxing the way it should be !
                                  Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post

                                    Yes 100% That is the same here with many people who I know as well. What has struck me is how quickly that desire just flipped like a light switch. No lamenting, no angst, just simply, no, not interested. Desire just evaporated. These are people of means, DLR could be $1000 entry price and that would be of no consequence, it is about quality and value. They see it as vastly overpriced for quality received. When I can eat at Marche Moderne for less than some meals at the park, you start getting into ridiculous territory.

                                    Don't even start on the hotels, absolutely laughable.
                                    Late to the thread, but this was also my experience. We’ve been AP holders for years. Hearing about the parks closing an the AP program going away was painful, but eventually my desire to return just evaporated. And with this came a clearer perception of DLR’s declining quality even as prices increased. Given the direction Chapek has taken things, I’d say there’s about a 1% chance that a loyalty program he develops will be worthwhile to me. This thread asked for predictions regarding the new program. Only one thing is absolutely sure: it will cost more, and you will get less.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Kyuberto View Post

                                      Late to the thread, but this was also my experience. We’ve been AP holders for years. Hearing about the parks closing an the AP program going away was painful, but eventually my desire to return just evaporated. And with this came a clearer perception of DLR’s declining quality even as prices increased. Given the direction Chapek has taken things, I’d say there’s about a 1% chance that a loyalty program he develops will be worthwhile to me. This thread asked for predictions regarding the new program. Only one thing is absolutely sure: it will cost more, and you will get less.
                                      Agreed. I can't see realistically imagine they would roll out any type of loyalty program that would actually attract me as a customer.

                                      Whether it be the previously mentioned Starbucks, Knotts, the 90's keyfobs, or whatever loyalty program, the thing that all loyalty programs have in common in my eyes is that they are an additional perk you get, not the main draw on why you got to a place. People who drink Starbucks every week aren't doing so because of the loyalty program, they would be going there anyway.The loyalty program is just an extra incentive/perk you get on top of something you would be buying anyway. The 90's keyfobs, people weren't going to these stores more thinking 'Hey I'm getting great value out of this keyfob' it was more you are going there anyway, just swipe this card and you get extra for your purchase.

                                      If your product isn't good enough for people to buy without a loyalty program, they aren't going to buy it now solely because of the addition of one. The goal of most loyalty programs shouldn't be 'we're going to get tons of people here because they want these rewards.' Instead, loyalty programs work for a company because either (1) The customer goes to the place enough that the revenue generated exceeds the reward given or (2) they go to the place but not often enough to collect the reward, so the company profits normally. Now sure, if a loyalty program is used right as an added perk, the Starbucks customer may feel they are getting all these 'free' rewards from the company and they start to think of them in an even more favorable light, causing them to go more. But is more of a round-about draw to the company, not a direct 'Hey I'm going because of their loyalty program.' You can't decrease the quality of your product and still get the same amount of people to go due solely to a loyalty program.

                                      From everything I've heard on speculation about Disney, I think they must either believe that (a) the addition of a new loyalty program will incentivize people to go the park as much as their annual pass system did or (b) they think their product is good enough on it' own to where people will go no matter what, and this will simply work like any other companies loyalty program.

                                      If Disney is thinking the former (a), I think they are flat-out wrong for all the reasons above. Myself, I have bought 5-6 annual passes a year for my family ever since graduating from college. I have not once purchased a ticket and do not plan on doing so in the future; the value just simply isn't there in my eyes. To me the annual pass isn't just about getting my cost per visit as low as possible. Sure it's great to know I'm getting great value out of my purchase, but even if they did roll out a loyalty program that resulted in the same cost per visit as an annual pass (this will never happen), I'd still far prefer an annual pass. The annual pass lets me come and go as I please and not feel like I have to make the most out of every single trip. Going with single-day tickets as a kid I just always remember rushing around the park and feeling pressured to do everything we possibly could and stay all day. The annual pass just gives peace of mind that I have all year to experience Disneyland whenever I want, and I can just spend my day enjoying what I want. Nothing else that I can think of would result in this same peace of mind, so regardless of the value of what replaces it, the removal of the annual passes would result in a worse experience for me, decreasing the quality of their product.

                                      If Disney is thinking the latter (b), I hope they are wrong. As stated above, I myself won't be purchasing into a loyalty program, but if Disney's product really is an inelastic good and people go no matter what, then they have free reign to do whatever they feel with prices and passes, they will profit regardless. I just hope there are enough annual pass holders that feel as I do, that an annual pass program is necessary for them to consistently visit the park.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by motrcolt View Post

                                        Agreed. [B]
                                        From everything I've heard on speculation about Disney, I think they must either believe that (a) the addition of a new loyalty program will incentivize people to go the park as much as their annual pass system did or (b) they think their product is good enough on it' own to where people will go no matter what, and this will simply work like any other companies loyalty program.
                                        I agree they truly lack the ability to see guests as more than a digit on a spreadsheet and think they are killing it right now with no end in site. Another thing about "Loyalty Programs" is they aren't for growing your customer base they are simply put in to try and attract more of the existing customer base away from your competitors. Often loyalty programs are put in place by the industry leaders to snuff out the little guy. DLR is letting all the little guys beat them at their own game right now and one of the reasons all the "lil guys" are succeeding while DLR is failing is staffing and bringing back their AP's.
                                        Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Kyuberto View Post
                                          Only one thing is absolutely sure: it will cost more, and you will get less.

                                          sorry to say
                                          I AGREE

                                          Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                          Comment

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