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Are the subs days numbered? Again

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  • [Chat] Are the subs days numbered? Again

    The pandemic has changed the way theme parks operate with enclosed tight spaces still being a major concern for some ques I have begun to wonder if the claustrophobic subs will ever make a return to Disneyland? With the inside space being so tight and everyone packed in like a can of sardines I have begun wondering if the state or Disney considers an environment such as that safe to be in, with worries of another surge lingering over our heads will Disney ever consider bringing back the attraction? It already has a small rider per hour count, limiting the amount of guests allowed to load would make the standby que even worse and as I've read before it costs Disney thousands per year to keep this attraction up and operating. So is it possible that this attractions days are once again numbered? Will the times force this attraction to once again dive into yesterland forever?

  • #2
    Of all the attractions at Disneyland, the Submarines are perhaps one of the most endangered. I would miss the lagoon and would be sad to see such a historic part of Disneyland go away, but I can't say I've ever loved the Nemo ride or that I even go on it much when I visit. If what replaced it was a spectacular attraction that fit in with the theme of Tomorrowland, I would get on board with the change, although I think that is unlikely.
    Brian the Pooh

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    • #3
      This isn't the 1st time that the subs' fate has been discussed.. It remained closed for 2/3rd of 2014 for "refurbishment", despite the ride appearing abandoned. Construction was scheduled to go through the Fall, into the New Fiscal Year. Some thought it was code for a silent closure as there were rumors that it was one of the potential spots for Galaxy's Edge. Granted, work was actually done in 2014.

      Whether the ride will permanently close now, is another story. The ride is likely affected by the slow reopening process. Despite, it's alleged high operating cost, it does have a low ROI from the low ridership per hour. If Disney were to close the Subs, they would likely be closing the ride without an immediate replacement, which is a rare scenario for modern day DLR*. The current economy and the current operating budget, prevents a new ride to start construction. Otherwise, Disney would of began work on the Avengers E Ticket by now and Mickey & Minnie would not be delayed til 2023.


      *This happened a lot in DLR during the 90s to early 2000s.

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      • #4
        Maybe the "subs" yes. But, unless they're planning on completely redoing TL, knocking out and doing the people mover track foundation, and/or ripping out autopia and installing a clone of the Tron coaster. It's probably more like vehicles might finally be retired for ones that can load and unload faster with more vehicles, and more room.

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        • #5
          I remember once reading ( maybe an article on here ) that the Subs were the single most expensive attraction per guest usage in the park. This is due to being in one of the worlds largest swimming pools and all the cleaning and maintain it takes to keep things looking prestine coupled with its low guest volume. Not to mention the footprint and location it makes it very tempting to fill the lake sell off the subs and introduce 1 or 2 attractions and another retail spot allowing DLR to profit more and eat more crowds than the subs allow. The only thing holding them back is the crazy cost it would be to fill the lake build the structures all within the knot of PM and Monorail tracks.
          Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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          • #6
            I quite like the subs in principle. I think they get a bad rap because the ride isn't seen as "exciting," and it's true that it's hard to get thrills out of slowly moving at a steady pace past a continuous sequence of scenes. But I will never understand the mindset of people who think that every ride has to deliver thrills in order to justify itself, and the subs are one of the most literally immersive rides ever built in that you are literally underwater while riding. No, the vehicle doesn't literally dive, but you are physically below the water level.

            They did the ride dirty by turning it into a Finding Nemo highlights reel (while pretending that it's a "new" adventure where somehow all the same things happen in roughly the same order...gimme a break!) instead of coming up with something unique to spruce it up. I still maintain that the best premise for an underwater adventure in Tomorrowland is a manned mission to some watery exoplanet to search for and study the alien life there. Imagine the weird and wonderful creatures they could create!
            Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Starcade View Post
              I remember once reading ( maybe an article on here ) that the Subs were the single most expensive attraction per guest usage in the park. This is due to being in one of the worlds largest swimming pools and all the cleaning and maintain it takes to keep things looking prestine coupled with its low guest volume. Not to mention the footprint and location it makes it very tempting to fill the lake sell off the subs and introduce 1 or 2 attractions and another retail spot allowing DLR to profit more and eat more crowds than the subs allow. The only thing holding them back is the crazy cost it would be to fill the lake build the structures all within the knot of PM and Monorail tracks.
              I bet you are right.......
              Soaring like an EAGLE !

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              • #8
                I agree with Karalora regarding the subs.

                However, wouldn't it be poetic if they closed the subs down, and a couple of years later re-themed them to Pixar's Luca? My brain would sizzle.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post
                  I agree with Karalora regarding the subs.

                  However, wouldn't it be poetic if they closed the subs down, and a couple of years later re-themed them to Pixar's Luca? My brain would sizzle.
                  VERY SOFT SPOILERS


















                  Considering how little we see of the "Sea Monster" world in the movie... I would honestly be fine with this sort of retheme. Maybe we bump into the original sea serpent and have a "It's the Real Sea Monster?!?!" moment.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post
                    I agree with Karalora regarding the subs.

                    However, wouldn't it be poetic if they closed the subs down, and a couple of years later re-themed them to Pixar's Luca? My brain would sizzle.
                    It is hypocritical of me since I often lament always using IP in the parks but this would be kind of refreshing. A quick re drawing of the map and the subs largely land in Fantasyland and you can pump a fairly unique modern IP AND Disney+ to boot, all in the same ride. I don’t dislike Nemo at all but the retreaded scenes are tired and old. Playing around with being above water and below water would be something that could be really mind blowing. Sadly I really don’t think there would ever be an appetite to 1) Take a risk like that in the parks again since Luca wasn’t a runaway hit 2) Invest in an attraction like the Subs

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                      It is hypocritical of me since I often lament always using IP in the parks but this would be kind of refreshing. A quick re drawing of the map and the subs largely land in Fantasyland and you can pump a fairly unique modern IP AND Disney+ to boot, all in the same ride. I don’t dislike Nemo at all but the retreaded scenes are tired and old. Playing around with being above water and below water would be something that could be really mind blowing. Sadly I really don’t think there would ever be an appetite to 1) Take a risk like that in the parks again since Luca wasn’t a runaway hit 2) Invest in an attraction like the Subs
                      The more we talk about it, the more I realize it would be quite charming. I'm not an "IP is god" type of parkgoer, but this would definitely be a refreshing take.

                      Also for those who haven't seen Luca, go see it! A very simple, sensitive, and lovely movie.

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                      • #12
                        I honestly wouldn’t shed a tear if the submarine goes away.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I remember when the subs were a scientific expedition under the polar ice caps and you would be attacked by the giant squid. Then the mermaids began to disintegrate. Literally. But after Nemo, the ride has no flavor anymore. At this point anything else would be better.
                          My wife is the rebel spy.

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                          • #14
                            It still has flavor...it's just the same exact identical flavor as Finding Nemo, which we have all seen enough times that we probably have the dialogue memorized. (Best-selling home video of all time in its day...I don't know if it held onto that status or if Frozen bumped it, but I digress.) Not to mention how misplaced it is. In 1959, submarines exploring under the polar ice cap and in the ocean's Abyssal Zone constituted cutting-edge science. But even the most generous interpretation of Tomorrowland's theme can't accommodate the wacky adventures of some cartoon fish.
                            Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

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                            • #15

                              I think the subs are sunk. All Chapek need do is point to the high operating cost, the low rider count, and (most importantly) the continued increase in DL attendance numbers during the years that the subs were closed.

                              And this time, there's no Tony Baxter to fight for keeping them open.

                              "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                              it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                              together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                              designed to appeal to everyone."

                              - Walt Disney

                              "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                              - Michael Eisner

                              "It's very symbiotic."
                              - Bob Chapek

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                              • #16
                                I like the subs enough to where it bothers me that the current incarnation of the ride isn't a bit better, if that makes sense?

                                But I do hope they stay, if only because they contribute so much to (what's left of) the Tomorrowland ambiance, especially in conjunction with monorail. Although I would be surprised if they do not, unfortunately.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Karalora View Post
                                  I still maintain that the best premise for an underwater adventure in Tomorrowland is a manned mission to some watery exoplanet to search for and study the alien life there. Imagine the weird and wonderful creatures they could create!
                                  This would be great! And the small, confined, controlled viewing space is a great set up for some clever practical effects and illusions.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                                    I think the subs are sunk. All Chapek need do is point to the high operating cost, the low rider count, and (most importantly) the continued increase in DL attendance numbers during the years that the subs were closed.

                                    And this time, there's no Tony Baxter to fight for keeping them open.
                                    Sigh, I think you are right. The kinetic energy that the lagoon creates, along with the unique esthetics of having a ride physically underwater provides INCREDIBLE opportunities.

                                    Can you imagine what could be built with the right minds!?!!?

                                    When the subs were built there was no ride on PLANET EARTH that was like it, Walt built something truly unique and otherworldly.

                                    Alas, we have Chapek, so vision and creative genius are not a factor. So doubtful something incredible to happen.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I think the main benefits of the submarines today are (1) the beautiful lagoon and rockwork/waterfalls, and (2) the kinetics / uniqueness of seeing moving submarines.

                                      Strangely (and sadly), these benefits only befall a few very small viewing areas, north and west of the lagoon. They don't really benefit the aesthetics of Tomorrowland at all.

                                      If they do end up closing the attraction, this means they could open up the areas blocking the south side of the lagoon (e.g., the Nemo queue) and maybe either operate the subs without passengers or place a few of them in stationary positions within the visible lagoon. Even opening up the southern view of the lagoon without any subs would improve the feel of that area substantially.

                                      Alternatively, if the lagoon's footprint is to be used for a new attraction, they could simply add a brand new water feature in the new Tomorrowland, maybe with a prop submarine as they have at TDL and DLP.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                                        I think the subs are sunk. All Chapek need do is point to the high operating cost, the low rider count, and (most importantly) the continued increase in DL attendance numbers during the years that the subs were closed.

                                        And this time, there's no Tony Baxter to fight for keeping them open.
                                        YEP.........Sadly
                                        I think you right ...and would not be surprise !
                                        Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                        Comment

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