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  • d23tigger
    replied
    The show would have never happened with WET. They were too expensive and would have taken too long to make the show.

    Leave a comment:


  • TFN5459
    replied
    Originally posted by DisneyPilot View Post

    Yup, that happened.

    Big issues was that is destroyed a lot of components that were custom built for WOC and the original contractor that supplied those parts was no long an option to return to for repairs and replacement as I understood it which is why it took so long.

    Got to spend some time with the WOC designers and engineers and the one thing they did not take into account was how much each of the three floating platforms would be affected by water movement and the force of the fountains in show mode when floating. They had to redesign entire parts of the show when programming to keep the platforms level.

    One of my favorite moments was I asked knowing what they know now, what would they done differently...and one designer said that half way though construction and battling through numerous unexpected engineering challenges that it hit them that it would haven be infinitely easier to make the platforms fixed and just drain the lake 18" each night!...but by that point they were too far into it to change course..."Keep it simple, stupid" was what he said they missed in their quest to design this awe inspiring show!
    I wonder if this was a byproduct of them doing the majority of the project in house?

    With all that Disney has been subcontracting of late (like having Garner Holt build animatronics for them, for example) I'm surprised they didn't look to an outside company to do it. W.E.T. (which was coincidentally founded and run by former Imagineers) I believe has done submerged platforms and such for the Bellagio fountains and the new rendition of the Mirage Volcano in Las Vegas amongst many other installations and I can't help but wonder if WOC's infrastructure would be in a better and more reliable state if Disney subcontracted them to build the whole set up.

    Leave a comment:


  • TFN5459
    replied
    Originally posted by SkunkID View Post

    This is exactly my feelings.

    And yes, I understand. The wave effect is just a TINY little thing. Alot of people probably haven't even noticed it's gone, much less that it was there in the first place. But... On the other hand. TINY LITTLE EFFECTS, are some of the most special things in the parks. From the upstairs audio in new Orleans and main street. To the town sound effects in the rainbow ridge set pieces on big thunder. To the sublte shaking the bridge into pacific wharf does that I guess is supposed to simulate a constant 2.0 earthquake? LITTLE THINGS are what tends to set Disney apart. And if they were to do a complete rebuild of WoC, I don't feel like it's TOO MUCH to wonder if maybe they can rebuild the barges to properly raise and lower, so they can run the wave machines again.

    At least as a proof of concept. They've experimenting with the barge tech in miniature form for Fantasmic, and after years, it seems they ironed out the kinks. Maybe it's time to take that and apply it for WoC.
    That's how I feel about it as well, the waves were definitely one of those small details that helped to tell the "complete story" that the Disney Parks are known for. I do give them credit though for going out of their way to fix it again during the 2011 refurbishment of the lagoon. It's something they could have easily overlooked and just outright removed at that point, but it shows the attention to detail that was going at the time, in my opinion when DCA was at it's peak.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkunkID
    replied
    Originally posted by DisneyPilot View Post

    Yup, that happened.

    Big issues was that is destroyed a lot of components that were custom built for WOC and the original contractor that supplied those parts was no long an option to return to for repairs and replacement as I understood it which is why it took so long.

    Got to spend some time with the WOC designers and engineers and the one thing they did not take into account was how much each of the three floating platforms would be affected by water movement and the force of the fountains in show mode when floating. They had to redesign entire parts of the show when programming to keep the platforms level.

    One of my favorite moments was I asked knowing what they know now, what would they done differently...and one designer said that half way though construction and battling through numerous unexpected engineering challenges that it hit them that it would haven be infinitely easier to make the platforms fixed and just drain the lake 18" each night!...but by that point they were too far into it to change course..."Keep it simple, stupid" was what he said they missed in their quest to design this awe inspiring show!
    The sad thing is, with the wave machine pumps, they very likely could have absolutely moved the excess water to the overflow area in the wharf section if paradise pier. It all comes back...

    Leave a comment:


  • DisneyPilot
    replied
    Originally posted by SkunkID View Post

    If you remember, was the myth of "one stupid accident" damaging one of the platforms control boxes true? Something About the platforms being put into "work" mode, the boxes opened while nozels were replaced, repaired, recalibrated, etc. And then, without properly closing up the box's cover, the platform was lowered back down, immediately damaging all the not waterproof components inside.
    Yup, that happened.

    Big issues was that is destroyed a lot of components that were custom built for WOC and the original contractor that supplied those parts was no long an option to return to for repairs and replacement as I understood it which is why it took so long.

    Got to spend some time with the WOC designers and engineers and the one thing they did not take into account was how much each of the three floating platforms would be affected by water movement and the force of the fountains in show mode when floating. They had to redesign entire parts of the show when programming to keep the platforms level.

    One of my favorite moments was I asked knowing what they know now, what would they done differently...and one designer said that half way though construction and battling through numerous unexpected engineering challenges that it hit them that it would haven be infinitely easier to make the platforms fixed and just drain the lake 18" each night!...but by that point they were too far into it to change course..."Keep it simple, stupid" was what he said they missed in their quest to design this awe inspiring show!

    Leave a comment:


  • Spongeocto4
    replied
    Originally posted by SkunkID View Post

    If you remember, was the myth of "one stupid accident" damaging one of the platforms control boxes true? Something About the platforms being put into "work" mode, the boxes opened while nozels were replaced, repaired, recalibrated, etc. And then, without properly closing up the box's cover, the platform was lowered back down, immediately damaging all the not waterproof components inside.
    I haven't heard of that. Someone else on the board may know.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkunkID
    replied
    Originally posted by Spongeocto4 View Post

    IIRC on past MC info, regarding WoC:
    • The fountains were built on 3 giant football field sized platforms. Each platforms has 3 modes: Submerged, Show, and Work, the latter mode was only intended when working on the fountains. This is when the fountains are completely exposed.
    • The platforms had 'sinkable floatations', that were supposed to help sink the platforms after the show. I think these have caused issues during development.
    • The white domes were removed after the bay's dyed water stained them, allegedly.
    • The platforms do not have a retaining wall around the structure. In other words, they are quite exposed underneath.
    • The wave machine for the bay was restored briefly in 2010, but cut after it caused issues with the platforms structure.
    • At least 1 of the platforms structures suffered serious damage in the past.
    If you remember, was the myth of "one stupid accident" damaging one of the platforms control boxes true? Something About the platforms being put into "work" mode, the boxes opened while nozels were replaced, repaired, recalibrated, etc. And then, without properly closing up the box's cover, the platform was lowered back down, immediately damaging all the not waterproof components inside.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spongeocto4
    replied
    Originally posted by TFN5459 View Post

    As I understand it, the primary reason the wave machine didn't stick around after it's most recent refurb was due to the WOC platforms though it's very possible that the boardwalk's beams and structure itself were a secondary reason that I hadn't heard of.

    It seems overall that the WOC platforms tend to have more than a few durability issues, possibly a budget constraint at the time that the show itself was constructed. If I recall correctly too, the platforms were supposed to be submerged during the day, which hardly ever occurred, but now that the projection domes are gone, maybe they can a way to reconfigure the platforms to allow for submerging and wave machine durability? Definitely would cost a significant chunk but if they intend on running WOC for a while, might be a good long term investment?
    IIRC on past MC info, regarding WoC:
    • The fountains were built on 3 giant football field sized platforms. Each platforms has 3 modes: Submerged, Show, and Work, the latter mode was only intended when working on the fountains. This is when the fountains are completely exposed.
    • The platforms had 'sinkable floatations', that were supposed to help sink the platforms after the show. I think these have caused issues during development.
    • The white domes were removed after the bay's dyed water stained them, allegedly.
    • The platforms do not have a retaining wall around the structure. In other words, they are quite exposed underneath.
    • The wave machine for the bay was restored briefly in 2010, but cut after it caused issues with the platforms structure.
    • At least 1 of the platforms structures suffered serious damage in the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkunkID
    replied
    Originally posted by TFN5459 View Post

    As I understand it, the primary reason the wave machine didn't stick around after it's most recent refurb was due to the WOC platforms though it's very possible that the boardwalk's beams and structure itself were a secondary reason that I hadn't heard of.

    It seems overall that the WOC platforms tend to have more than a few durability issues, possibly a budget constraint at the time that the show itself was constructed. If I recall correctly too, the platforms were supposed to be submerged during the day, which hardly ever occurred, but now that the projection domes are gone, maybe they can a way to reconfigure the platforms to allow for submerging and wave machine durability? Definitely would cost a significant chunk but if they intend on running WOC for a while, might be a good long term investment?
    This is exactly my feelings.

    And yes, I understand. The wave effect is just a TINY little thing. Alot of people probably haven't even noticed it's gone, much less that it was there in the first place. But... On the other hand. TINY LITTLE EFFECTS, are some of the most special things in the parks. From the upstairs audio in new Orleans and main street. To the town sound effects in the rainbow ridge set pieces on big thunder. To the sublte shaking the bridge into pacific wharf does that I guess is supposed to simulate a constant 2.0 earthquake? LITTLE THINGS are what tends to set Disney apart. And if they were to do a complete rebuild of WoC, I don't feel like it's TOO MUCH to wonder if maybe they can rebuild the barges to properly raise and lower, so they can run the wave machines again.

    At least as a proof of concept. They've experimenting with the barge tech in miniature form for Fantasmic, and after years, it seems they ironed out the kinks. Maybe it's time to take that and apply it for WoC.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Originally posted by TFN5459 View Post

    As I understand it, the primary reason the wave machine didn't stick around after it's most recent refurb was due to the WOC platforms though it's very possible that the boardwalk's beams and structure itself were a secondary reason that I hadn't heard of.

    It seems overall that the WOC platforms tend to have more than a few durability issues, possibly a budget constraint at the time that the show itself was constructed. If I recall correctly too, the platforms were supposed to be submerged during the day, which hardly ever occurred, but now that the projection domes are gone, maybe they can a way to reconfigure the platforms to allow for submerging and wave machine durability? Definitely would cost a significant chunk but if they intend on running WOC for a while, might be a good long term investment?
    The question would be,
    Does Disney want continue to put in any type more investment into this show ?
    and IMO -it like whole New construction of a Water Show ...............
    If they continue - it would be a major refurb !
    Last edited by Eagleman; 07-11-2021, 08:07 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TFN5459
    replied
    Originally posted by SkunkID View Post

    Yes. This effect. Though, it is entirely possible it was beam damage and not damage to the machine itself.
    As I understand it, the primary reason the wave machine didn't stick around after it's most recent refurb was due to the WOC platforms though it's very possible that the boardwalk's beams and structure itself were a secondary reason that I hadn't heard of.

    It seems overall that the WOC platforms tend to have more than a few durability issues, possibly a budget constraint at the time that the show itself was constructed. If I recall correctly too, the platforms were supposed to be submerged during the day, which hardly ever occurred, but now that the projection domes are gone, maybe they can a way to reconfigure the platforms to allow for submerging and wave machine durability? Definitely would cost a significant chunk but if they intend on running WOC for a while, might be a good long term investment?

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Originally posted by dfl85 View Post
    Since Frightfully Fun is returning this year why not bring back Paint The Night while WoC is under refurb!
    IMO - World of Color has many Issue,
    Maybe by next year.........is my bet

    Leave a comment:


  • dfl85
    replied
    Since Frightfully Fun is returning this year why not bring back Paint The Night while WoC is under refurb!

    Leave a comment:


  • Spongeocto4
    replied
    World of Color: Villainous was not listed among the Resort features for Halloween 2021 It appears the show will be down into the Fall or later.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bexington
    replied
    profound sadness...

    Leave a comment:


  • Eagleman
    replied
    Originally posted by Bexington View Post
    I seriously hope that it's going to be back by christmas time. I havent been to DLR in 12 years and i was hoping to finally see world of color in person.
    IMO-
    I would not count on World of Color
    Being up and running this year.........

    I think there lot of Issue with the water show , that has not been running for over a year!
    again IMO
    Last edited by Eagleman; 07-04-2021, 06:28 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bexington
    replied
    I seriously hope that it's going to be back by christmas time. I havent been to DLR in 12 years and i was hoping to finally see world of color in person.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkunkID
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post

    Are you referring to the wave effect that was incorporated near the California Screamin’ launch track, or a different effect entirely? I thought that specific wave effect was causing some damage to boardwalk beams…
    Yes. This effect. Though, it is entirely possible it was beam damage and not damage to the machine itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Andy
    replied
    Originally posted by SkunkID View Post
    I know it's a LONG shot. But I wonder if, since they having to do a complete gut and rebuilt if the show structure and underwater "barges" needed for the propane and water effect; is it possible they could be taking into account what would be needed to make the show pieces work with a reintroduced wave effect?

    I recall years ago, the original wave machine failed, but was replaced and repaired ONLY to be mothballed because the WoC show pieces (especially the now retired video spheres) couldn't stand up to the constant water motion.

    Since we have to have this rebuild, could it be possible to have the components "submerge" into a lower leveled section underwater. One that would put all the more fragile components below the force of any generated wavers.
    Are you referring to the wave effect that was incorporated near the California Screamin’ launch track, or a different effect entirely? I thought that specific wave effect was causing some damage to boardwalk beams…

    Leave a comment:


  • SkunkID
    replied
    I know it's a LONG shot. But I wonder if, since they having to do a complete gut and rebuilt if the show structure and underwater "barges" needed for the propane and water effect; is it possible they could be taking into account what would be needed to make the show pieces work with a reintroduced wave effect?

    I recall years ago, the original wave machine failed, but was replaced and repaired ONLY to be mothballed because the WoC show pieces (especially the now retired video spheres) couldn't stand up to the constant water motion.

    Since we have to have this rebuild, could it be possible to have the components "submerge" into a lower leveled section underwater. One that would put all the more fragile components below the force of any generated wavers.

    Leave a comment:

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