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  • Paltry attendance?

    Like many of you hopeful for the return of some Disneyland membership plan, I am holding out on repeat visits until I find something that meets that value. And I don't think I'm alone in this. Disney's CA Resident deal and the Oogie Boogie Bash ticket sales lead me to believe that many others are in the same boat.

    Someone on Twitter was reporting that they were already being targeted with a discount for the CA Resident deal, on top of what Disney was originally offering. Never mind the fact that this deal used to be exclusive to Southern California and was exclusively reserved for the off-season. With it expanded to a broader group for the peak season, they shouldn't need to be offering discounts on it already, right?

    Now, I know Oogie Boogie Bash tickets just dropped today, but I think this is headed the same way. With the exception of the Saturday nights, after almost 12 hrs of release all the other dates are still available. Disney was having technical issues with the queue (it's incredible that they still cannot effectively manage online queues), but neither Halloween nor the Saturday before have sold out yet. This would previously be something everyone jumped at, and Disney executed it well.

    I think this is just more evidence that attendance is not where Disney is hoping it would be at. They were really counting on pent-up demand for repeat visits, and it's just not bearing out.

  • #2
    Honestly when I see those Legacy Passholder emails being sent, I get the sense that Disney is hurting somewhere... One was sent today, and all I could do was roll my eyes because they were marketing the usual which is, "Hey. We're Disneyland."

    I can't speak for crowds with a good conscience because the day I went it felt pretty crowded, but maybe Disney is really itching for those shoulder-to-shoulder crowds, or there are days where the park is dead and I chose a day where, well... it wasn't.

    To be honest after that visit and at the price I paid, I have no plans to return until another relative drags me through those green gates. With my AP, I always itched to go alone, and pay for a meal, and be all bourgeois with my cocktails, but my July 6th visit left a weird taste in my mouth. I still have mixed feelings about it compared to my previous visits.

    Comment


    • #3

      Regardless of how seriously the DLR is understaffed and how low the CMs' morale, management keeps trying to increase the crowds. Papering the state with discount offers in an attempt to pack the Parks is another example of how little Disney management cares about its frontline employees.


      From Monday's Micechat Disneyland Update:

      "The recall of staff to Disneyland Park has also been going slowly as many cast have declined to return, and many who have returned are already quitting....

      "The custodial department is suffering from serious morale issues right now, as traditional time/equipment-intensive processes (like the deep cleaning of kitchens, stores, and restrooms) are being pushed from the more expensive 3rd shift to daytime cast in order to save a very small amount of money. The union updated custodial cast over the weekend about Disney’s resistance to make the necessary changes to restore the 3rd shift.

      "The rumor among some cast is that Disney may be setting Custodial up to fail so they can replace them with 3rd party contractors. But even Walt Disney himself replaced a 3rd party company with his own workers so he could better ensure quality and show conditions in the park. We hope those rumors do not pan out. That would be a huge setback for guest service at the resort.

      "...We’re keeping a very close eye on these related issues as they unfold. But we are starting to feel like it’s time for guests, unions, and cast to all push back on decisions that impact guest experience, show, and job satisfaction. If your Disneyland experience doesn’t live up to your expectations or the price you paid (hotels, restaurants, or theme parks), please speak up. Disney has a terrible habit of thinking their guests are willing to pay whatever price and put up with whatever hoops and conditions… until they are met with overwhelming negative feedback. If something important to your Disney experience has gone missing, now is the time to speak up before it becomes standard operating procedure and never returns."




      DLR customers who care about Disney's employees should reject management's greedy attempt to pack the understaffed parks. Customers should give Disney's discount offers a resounding NO, and email Disney with the reason why.


      Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 07-14-2021, 06:57 AM.
      "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
      it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
      together with every variety of recreation and fun,
      designed to appeal to everyone."

      - Walt Disney

      "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
      - Michael Eisner

      "It's very symbiotic."
      - Bob Chapek

      Comment


      • #4
        We have not seen any discounts or deals up here in Canada yet, and I think this is a pretty big indicator that the tourism industry has not ramped up yet which is probably also a big contributor to the lower crowds. Not only have you cancelled APs which will obviously lower crowds in the park, but you have opened when lots of people are still staying local rather than travelling across the country. The sentiment I hear around here and lots of other areas may be the same is that even if the borders fully open and things are "back to normal" people still want to wait because the parks are a shadow of their Pre-Covid selves. Sentiment is, why pay top dollar for a trip when lots of things are still closed, lots of wait and see.

        On another note, I am growing increasingly disgusted with the cost cutting happening around the park now. I know we are dealing with rumours and speculation, but if I am paying top dollar, dollars well above other vacations, I want something somewhat close to top dollar in return. Outsourcing janitorial and hotel staff is never going to be good for the overall quality of the product nor is cutting food services in hotels. Little things like having a third shift to do cleaning is also lessens the experience. Disney is really doubling down on its brand here, and for me it's beginning to be a tough sell. Ocean front hotel room in Hawaii $300 a night, Oceanfront Villas in Hawaii $500 a night......less then the DLR hotels with more services.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post
          Honestly when I see those Legacy Passholder emails being sent, I get the sense that Disney is hurting somewhere... One was sent today, and all I could do was roll my eyes because they were marketing the usual which is, "Hey. We're Disneyland."

          I can't speak for crowds with a good conscience because the day I went it felt pretty crowded, but maybe Disney is really itching for those shoulder-to-shoulder crowds, or there are days where the park is dead and I chose a day where, well... it wasn't.

          To be honest after that visit and at the price I paid, I have no plans to return until another relative drags me through those green gates. With my AP, I always itched to go alone, and pay for a meal, and be all bourgeois with my cocktails, but my July 6th visit left a weird taste in my mouth. I still have mixed feelings about it compared to my previous visits.
          My sentiments exactly!! Our last visit in May left not a weird taste but a virtual slap in the face for the amount of money we flushed down the toilet for this so called "magical experience". As the family and I were also AP'ers back in 2019....I feel its absolute Horse S%&% that Disney has the edacity to send emails out to their Legacy AP'ers....and ask about uhhh a Pass??? Screw you Disney..Im keeping my money while you mock the absolute truth to the matter is. You screwed over hundreds of thousands of AP'ers and you want our business back?? I still dont understand why folks want to shell out a ton of dough for the same experiences, over and over and over again!
          Last edited by YeaDZNY; 07-14-2021, 08:17 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            What the Hell is "Paltry Attendance"???

            Comment


            • #7
              I seem to remember several members parroting DLR was purposely keeping attendance low for the sake of the guest experience. I never believed it nor did many others on here. Interesting many of those same people defending DLR's with the argument "DLR crowds are being kept light for guests benefit" and "if you can't afford it maybe it's not for you" attitude have seemingly disappeared from the forum these days? Maybe there is another forum out there where everyone thinks DLR is faultless and they all feel honored to be exploited, who knows?

              I feel that there are several indicators the chapek dream of blood from a stone is starting to collapse. The stock had performed really well during Covid as Disney+ was a rocketing success and Disney is a big company with lots of entertainment and merch options beyond the parks. People also speculated the parks would open sooner and more widely than they did. Since the parks opened the stock price has moved up and down erratically but not in any large movement upward or downward. In short some say the stock is virtually stagnant right now. When a stock sees very little movement usually people start to abandon it as they want their money somewhere else where the needle moves. (Maybe Iger saw this coming?)

              I have a feeling (hunch) that AP's are coming back on October 1st. (3 day CA passes have a hard Sept 30 end date) but will be called something else using the AP designation like chapek had mentioned an "Affinity Program". This way they can save face with previous comments and still benefit from the prior viral marketing benefits of all the previous AP promotions. It will likely be more expensing and provide less than before (DLR's new brand) but we will still see locals buy it in droves and fill the parks many days a year with families coming in for the morning into afternoon and then teens and young adults coming in the evening when the families begin to cycle out. This is the way the parks work best for Disney and this is the formula that has allowed the parks to grow as they have over the last two decades. California is the most populous state in the country and the majority live within a couple of hours of the parks. The parks have evolved to now cater to return visitors, return visits are more common with local guests than those from afar.

              On a side note... the onsite hotels are making some curious moves as well that I do not see as benefitting the tourists that chapek seems to try and appear to cater to. During one of many random reservation checks we often do to gauge trends in the DLR hotel pricing we noticed something that we hadn't in past years. Right now the pricing is not as high as it was pre-covid but not much cheaper at $584 (special pricing) per night beyond this week there seems to be quite a bit of vacancy's. There seems to be discounted rooms from now until October with rooms as cheap as $467 per night in September when tourism is at the lowest with kids returning to school. It creeps up to $669 per night and stays there through out the Fall which seems like their avg. base price for the year. It stays that way until we get to the week of Thanksgiving when tourist tend to visit. That week it spikes to $906 per night!!! The following week though it goes right back down to $669. So if he values tourists why does he gouge them? A: He doesn't value tourists as much as he enjoys their willingness to be exploited or as he calls it be "the most loyal guests".

              I think chapek is starting to sweat but doesn't want to admit his folly. He is one of those execs that drinks his own koolaid and let's his ego captain the ship. When this happens the ship often sinks in the end. I just hope Disney has somebody in the wings that they know could step in and right the ship if chapek failed to course correct. I could even see him giving in and putting things back to the way they were pre-covid and then acting as if he saved the parks from collapse single handedly while we all give him side eye knowing full well most of the problem were his own doing.

              Disneyland Fan since the 70's

              Comment


              • #8
                Based on this video describing the parks recently, I can't see why DL would consider opening up an AP program anytime soon:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv8JBuB0jj8

                The parks are packed nearly as much as pre-COVID and that's without APs. Remember how soft the demand was for the opening of SWGE? Compare that to Avengers Campus. Why? Pent up demand.

                Consumers are partaking in "revenge travel" - booking more extravagant and longer vacations than they normally would. Why? Pent up demand.

                COVID hasn't increased people's salaries, so this is a short term spike we're seeing. This isn't me saying this. All the major banks and the Fed Chair are saying it. Consumers have a surplus of money due to stimulus and saving on commuting, travel, and eating out for 1.5 years. That money will run dry at some point. I predict Summer 2023.

                Until then, if DLR is trying to maximize profits, they would create a loyalty program similar to airlines/hotels to bridge the gap. Once they see the demand fall off (I'm predicting sometime in 2023), then they can start offering specials to locals that resemble the Flex pass with a limited number of days of attendance.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by YeaDZNY View Post
                  What the Hell is "Paltry Attendance"???
                  Paltry

                  adjective
                  1. (of an amount) small or meager.
                  Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by YeaDZNY View Post

                    My sentiments exactly!! Our last visit in May left not a weird taste but a virtual slap in the face for the amount of money we flushed down the toilet for this so called "magical experience". As the family and I were also AP'ers back in 2019....I feel its absolute Horse S%&% that Disney has the edacity to send emails out to their Legacy AP'ers....and ask about uhhh a Pass??? Screw you Disney..Im keeping my money while you mock the absolute truth to the matter is. You screwed over hundreds of thousands of AP'ers and you want our business back?? I still dont understand why folks want to shell out a ton of dough for the same experiences, over and over and over again!
                    While I agree that value on a day pass just isn't there right now.....APs had it really good for a long long time in terms of the dollars for the value. Argument about quality of the parks, whether the parks "need" APs, and whether they are good for the parks or not aside; I can understand the frustration about having a golden ticket taken away, but...welcome to what the majority of guests have had to pay for the last thirty years. It's very difficult to sympathize or empathize with posts like this, even with the understanding that I would be disappointed too if something like that was taken away. Not sure how Disney "screwed over" people, they changed a policy that let people attend the parks for potentially way less, nothing more nothing less.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Starcade View Post

                      Paltry

                      adjective
                      1. (of an amount) small or meager.
                      2. any number of DLR guests lower than the maximum allowed by the State Fire Marshal.
                      "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                      it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                      together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                      designed to appeal to everyone."

                      - Walt Disney

                      "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                      - Michael Eisner

                      "It's very symbiotic."
                      - Bob Chapek

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by brerphysicist View Post

                        COVID hasn't increased people's salaries, so this is a short term spike we're seeing. This isn't me saying this. All the major banks and the Fed Chair are saying it. Consumers have a surplus of money due to stimulus and saving on commuting, travel, and eating out for 1.5 years. That money will run dry at some point. I predict Summer 2023.
                        Summer 2023 more like Winter 2021. That money is already running dry for consumer spending in many industries. The spike in spending is also only happening with a fraction of consumers as not all were able to save during lockdown. It is truly a spike and not an arch, it's starting to drop as fast as it grew.
                        Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starcade View Post

                          Summer 2023 more like Winter 2021. That money is already running dry for consumer spending in many industries. The spike in spending is also only happening with a fraction of consumers as not all were able to save during lockdown. It is truly a spike and not an arch, it's starting to drop as fast as it grew.
                          I hope you're right. I'm a pessimist. China has started to see their economic growth peter out (following a huge boom like we're currently experiencing), and they have been the leading indicator on all things covid, so we should start to see a tailing off at some point. I just hope it's sooner rather than later ... mainly because I'm worried about inflation

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You only discount your product if it’s not selling (or not selling enough). It’s not an opinion to say Disney is not happy with their attendance. It is a fact proven by the fact that they offering an unprecedented discount.*

                            If Disney isn’t selling enough despite all this pent up demand, what will it look like when things start to normalize?

                            *Granted MC has suggested that it’s DCA’s attendance specifically that Disney is not happy with and that is the purpose of the discount. Interesting that a park with a new land based on “beloved characters” needs a discount.
                            Last edited by Jesser-pie; 07-14-2021, 09:46 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by YeaDZNY View Post
                              What the Hell is "Paltry Attendance"???
                              It's when there's not a lot people in the park.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by brerphysicist View Post

                                I hope you're right. I'm a pessimist. China has started to see their economic growth peter out (following a huge boom like we're currently experiencing), and they have been the leading indicator on all things covid, so we should start to see a tailing off at some point. I just hope it's sooner rather than later ... mainly because I'm worried about inflation
                                I agree 100% this course needs to correct fast or we are going to experience the late 70's all over again. I and many close friends work in the various manufacturing consumer goods industries, we are all seeing the buying surge screeching to a halt and even raw materials are now seeing price drops to keep sales going. ( Plastics & Lumber for instance had been in some case 3x the pre-pandemic price and is now back to maybe 20% more than 2019 pricing and still dropping.) Tourism is not an industry I have inside info on by if demand on consumer goods is now plummeting back to pre-covid levels I am sure tourism cannot be far behind.
                                Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by brerphysicist View Post
                                  Based on this video describing the parks recently, I can't see why DL would consider opening up an AP program anytime soon:
                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv8JBuB0jj8

                                  The parks are packed nearly as much as pre-COVID and that's without APs. Remember how soft the demand was for the opening of SWGE? Compare that to Avengers Campus. Why? Pent up demand.

                                  Consumers are partaking in "revenge travel" - booking more extravagant and longer vacations than they normally would. Why? Pent up demand.

                                  COVID hasn't increased people's salaries, so this is a short term spike we're seeing. This isn't me saying this. All the major banks and the Fed Chair are saying it. Consumers have a surplus of money due to stimulus and saving on commuting, travel, and eating out for 1.5 years. That money will run dry at some point. I predict Summer 2023.

                                  Until then, if DLR is trying to maximize profits, they would create a loyalty program similar to airlines/hotels to bridge the gap. Once they see the demand fall off (I'm predicting sometime in 2023), then they can start offering specials to locals that resemble the Flex pass with a limited number of days of attendance.
                                  I think Jesser-pie articulated this perfectly: if Disney is happy with what crowds look like when people have pent-up demand and are partaking in revenge travel, then why offer a discount for California residents? I think there is pent-up demand for travel, but I think after one, or at most two trips, people would rather spend their money on a better value vacation than return to Disneyland for another full-priced visit in so short a time.

                                  Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                                  While I agree that value on a day pass just isn't there right now.....APs had it really good for a long long time in terms of the dollars for the value. Argument about quality of the parks, whether the parks "need" APs, and whether they are good for the parks or not aside; I can understand the frustration about having a golden ticket taken away, but...welcome to what the majority of guests have had to pay for the last thirty years. It's very difficult to sympathize or empathize with posts like this, even with the understanding that I would be disappointed too if something like that was taken away. Not sure how Disney "screwed over" people, they changed a policy that let people attend the parks for potentially way less, nothing more nothing less.
                                  I think YeaDZNY's point is less about not getting a golden ticket anymore, but more about how it's basically not even worth getting an AP now if it were offered due to the level of experience. Add that to Disney's relentless targeting of the Legacy APs, and it feels not just annoying, but blatantly hypocritical after cancelling the program. I'll be the first to say the AP program was subsidized for its actual value, and I honestly think any return system needs to implement reservations so that frontline CMs are not overburdened by surprise crowds. But is almost comical just how much Disney is trying to court former APs to return to the parks without relaunching the AP program.

                                  Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post
                                  You only discount your product if it’s not selling (or not selling enough). It’s not an opinion to say Disney is not happy with their attendance. It is a fact proven by the fact that they offering an unprecedented discount.*

                                  If Disney isn’t selling enough despite all this pent up demand, what will it look like when things start to normalize?

                                  *Granted MC has suggested that it’s DCA’s attendance specifically that Disney is not happy with and that is the purpose of the discount. Interesting that a park with a new land based on “beloved characters” needs a discount.
                                  I think you're absolutely right. And I think to get back to where Disney was is going to require two things: new things in the parks, and just a better experience overall. With APs, new things in the parks could be small exclusive offerings, meet-and-greets, etc. to bring people back when they had the time. But with that customer base gone, there are no compelling additions worth seeing since Galaxy's Edge opened. At best we have a plussed Jungled Cruise and TSMM reskinned for Spiderman, but that's not enough to keep people coming back repeatedly (not to mention the hassle of Rise boarding groups).

                                  Maybe some people are happy with visiting more infrequently as a result. But then because Disney is cutting literally everything and hasn't hired back half of the CM workforce, it's just reflecting on everything from food service to janitorial services. I and others on the forum kept saying Disney was trying to cash in on good will without putting in the work to maintain it, but I just never thought they would see attendance drop so soon after doing it. There's no way they can keep this up for another year.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post
                                    You only discount your product if it’s not selling (or not selling enough). It’s not an opinion to say Disney is not happy with their attendance. It is a fact proven by the fact that they offering an unprecedented discount.*

                                    If Disney isn’t selling enough despite all this pent up demand, what will it look like when things start to normalize?

                                    *Granted MC has suggested that it’s DCA’s attendance specifically that Disney is not happy with and that is the purpose of the discount. Interesting that a park with a new land based on “beloved characters” needs a discount.
                                    Yeah, I agree with all of this.

                                    Originally posted by brerphysicist View Post
                                    Remember how soft the demand was for the opening of SWGE? Compare that to Avengers Campus. Why? Pent up demand.
                                    I take your point, but it's not an apples-to-apples comparison: SW:GE was both huge in terms of area and largely bereft of anything to do when it opened, Avengers Campus is small and as far as I know reasonably populated with entertainment. (Also, maybe contrary to conventional wisdom, I think Marvel is a more popular franchise than SW by a pretty significant amount).
                                    Last edited by BasilOregano; 07-14-2021, 10:28 AM.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

                                      While I agree that value on a day pass just isn't there right now.....APs had it really good for a long long time in terms of the dollars for the value. Argument about quality of the parks, whether the parks "need" APs, and whether they are good for the parks or not aside; I can understand the frustration about having a golden ticket taken away, but...welcome to what the majority of guests have had to pay for the last thirty years. It's very difficult to sympathize or empathize with posts like this, even with the understanding that I would be disappointed too if something like that was taken away. Not sure how Disney "screwed over" people, they changed a policy that let people attend the parks for potentially way less, nothing more nothing less.
                                      Allow me to add more detail about my experience. We went on a 2 day park hopper ticket and staying at the Grand...Never again will I pay over $600 freakin bucks a night to stay there. So yea our 2 day stay was pretty much equivalent to almost a weeks stay in Hawaii...uggghhhh kicking myself so hard after I thought about that.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post
                                        ...Maybe some people are happy with visiting more infrequently as a result. But then because Disney is cutting literally everything and hasn't hired back half of the CM workforce, it's just reflecting on everything from food service to janitorial services. I and others on the forum kept saying Disney was trying to cash in on good will without putting in the work to maintain it, but I just never thought they would see attendance drop so soon after doing it. There's no way they can keep this up for another year.
                                        Spot on. I suspect that the next chapter of "Once Upon a Chapek" will depend on how So Cal's other theme parks perform compared to DLR. If all their attendance numbers drop but DLR drops the least, he's safe. If all their numbers drop but DLR drops the most, his resumé photo will have bus tire tracks across it. And if DLR drops while Uni, Knotts and Six Flags increase, he'll be lucky if he can get his old job back at Heinz 57.

                                        Don't forget, Iger still has power. And Chapek isn't the smoothest people-person on the lot.

                                        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                        designed to appeal to everyone."

                                        - Walt Disney

                                        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                        - Michael Eisner

                                        "It's very symbiotic."
                                        - Bob Chapek

                                        Comment

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