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  • #21
    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

    Spot on. I suspect that the next chapter of "Once Upon a Chapek" will depend on how So Cal's other theme parks perform compared to DLR. If all their attendance numbers drop but DLR drops the least, he's safe. If all their numbers drop but DLR drops the most, his resumé photo will have bus tire tracks across it. And if DLR drops while Uni, Knotts and Six Flags increase, he'll be lucky if he can get his old job back at Heinz 57.

    Don't forget, Iger still has power. And Chapek isn't the smoothest people-person on the lot.
    Well both Knott's and Universal Studios had steadily increasing attendance from 2018 all the way until Lockdown and while Disneyland was seeing a slight steady decrease in attendance numbers. So far all indicators are Knott's and Universal are on track to return to those increased numbers and are seeing attendance growing steadily at a rapid pace. Disney I am not sure of because between their self imposed capacity limits and various other shenanigans it's hard to see if the crowds are really increasing or the long lines are due to other factors since wait times are just as long as they were Feb of 2020 even though during periods of the day the common areas appear to be less crowded. Wasn't the whole idea that chapek had was to bring people out of the queues and into the more common areas? Seems like the opposite is happening or am I missing something?

    I believe the last two rallies that boosted Disney Stock where the Launch of Disney+ and the acquisition of Fox both where Iger projects if I remember correctly. Also didn't the stock take a hit when Iger announced he was going to step down? Having him return to the helm would likely give a lil boost to the stock as well as give more power than the last time as he would have the "remember the last time I left what happened?" to flash around like a championship ring.

    Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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    • #22
      I doubt Iger will return to the helm, largely because I don't imagine he wants to. He can exert his influence from the outside to force a change if present management makes too big a mess of things, and that's certainly possibly, but that's quite an extrapolation to make from them offering discounts to get people into their less-popular park this summer.

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      • #23
        This is what I had brought up a few months back, because the truth is, Disneyland is just not big enough to be a viable vacation destination. This means the out of towners (the ones that were complaining the most about APs) are the vast minority, and unlike APs who were a sure thing, the out of towner visitors were never the ones to make up the vast amount of revenue to the parks, where yes, they'd spend more per visit, but that's a 2-3 day visit with a 50/50 they're not even going to stay at one of the Disneyland hotels. APs, though almost never staying at a hotel, showed up much more often and spent more overall, where in just 3 months, Disney's already seeing a huge decline in revenue, and even after a month of being open to out of state individuals, are still showing a major decline in overall daily revenue, revenue that is required to keep the parks functioning.

        The biggest issue that Disney and out of towners ignored was that over 80% of locals (locals making up 60% of total park attendance) only went weekly/bi weekly because they could go for a few hours per visit and not even be guaranteed to ride rides, where they're more likely to go for date night, go out to eat, buy merch, etc. The fact Disney was thinking DL would get the same attendance as WDW was foolish mainly because they were trying to use the same mindset for DL that honestly doesn't work. So now that the honeymoon phase is over and every local who was a major DL fan got their fill, most aren't going to go back for another 1-2 months if they have to pay full price since that means they're gonna want to stay the whole day, which since the majority of locals only visited 3-4 hours per visit, means that now, they're far less excited to go as often.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by BasilOregano View Post
          I doubt Iger will return to the helm, largely because I don't imagine he wants to. He can exert his influence from the outside to force a change if present management makes too big a mess of things, and that's certainly possibly, but that's quite an extrapolation to make from them offering discounts to get people into their less-popular park this summer.
          I AGREE
          He got what want from DISNEY...........and he got out fast from the CEO leadership;
          And he still have a little control by being on the Board....
          He made His $ MONEY $......IMO he was there , for him self !
          Soaring like an EAGLE !

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post
            We have not seen any discounts or deals up here in Canada yet, and I think this is a pretty big indicator that the tourism industry has not ramped up yet which is probably also a big contributor to the lower crowds. Not only have you cancelled APs which will obviously lower crowds in the park, but you have opened when lots of people are still staying local rather than travelling across the country. The sentiment I hear around here and lots of other areas may be the same is that even if the borders fully open and things are "back to normal" people still want to wait because the parks are a shadow of their Pre-Covid selves. Sentiment is, why pay top dollar for a trip when lots of things are still closed, lots of wait and see.
            My guess is that there won't be any Disney promotions for Canada residents, until the border fully reopens. Mainly because there is still no set day to reopen.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Spongeocto4 View Post

              My guess is that there won't be any Disney promotions for Canada residents, until the border fully reopens. Mainly because there is still no set day to reopen.
              If what you say is true.....
              It be my guess your right....won't be any Disney promotions for Canada residents, till the border fully reopens.
              imo
              Note: Another reason why Disneyland not doing well.
              Soaring like an EAGLE !

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              • #27
                Fall is going to be a guessing game of how the parks will be. It will either see more out of state tourist return for the holidays or worse....a fifth wave. But, I'm being a pessimist.

                Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                I have a feeling (hunch) that AP's are coming back on October 1st. (3 day CA passes have a hard Sept 30 end date) but will be called something else using the AP designation like chapek had mentioned an "Affinity Program".
                I think you could be right about October, as that's the beginning of the new fiscal year. I can see the launch of the program to coincide with new fiscal year and the holiday season.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Spongeocto4 View Post
                  Fall is going to be a guessing game of how the parks will be. It will either see more out of state tourist return for the holidays or worse....a fifth wave. But, I'm being a pessimist.



                  I think you could be right about October, as that's the beginning of the new fiscal year. I can see the launch of the program to coincide with new fiscal year and the holiday season.
                  The holiday season is always a guarantee as that's the time of year EVERYONE wants to go to the parks, where people will go for a few days from out of state to visit DL. The time DL really has to worry is Jan-May and Sep, first half of Nov, and first 1-2 weeks of Dec.

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                  • #29
                    I'm on the fence about taking advantage of the California resident ticket. We also have the military ticket (which I am disappointed that rather being 6 tickets per year, is now 6 tickets for 17 months, I had hoped they would do a round good through December of this year and the renew the program after the winter holidays). My little really wants to go and I hear about it 2-3 times a day since March of last year. But, geez! Ticket prices are insane. And I thought about Oogie Boogie Bash, but $170/person for a weekend? Even the $120 or so during a weekday is tough to stomach for 3-11pm, even with all the candy and other stuff. And for us it means missing two days of school to do it during the week. Sadly, I'll be passing, as much as I have enjoyed the Halloween bashes in the past (still bummed our new district does not have a fall break which made this easier to stomach).

                    I really think Disney needs to come up with something better for those who have been the most loyal customers, though the resident ticket is a start since you don't have to use it in a 13 day window like the other multi day tickets. I know Universal is similarly over the top expensive for a single day but at least they have affordable passes.

                    For those talking about the other SoCal parks, I think Knott's has the most to gain. I just went to Universal and honestly, I don't need to go again. Not enough to do for their price of admission. I haven't had a chance to do Knott's yet, but it's probably the best value in SoCal, especially for those coming from San Diego. Six Flags is set up for potential success as well, though it entails a drive through LA to get there for OC and SD residents. Something tells me Disney is going to see a much larger drop in attendance by percentage than the other parks that still have annual passes. I do realize how spoiled we have been for the last 8 years, but I think Disney is underestimating Disneyland as a destination park vs a regional park, especially for Americans. If I lived in say Colorado, I would rather save up for a WDW vacation than Disneyland. Once we move out of SoCal, I don't know that I will ever go to Disneyland again, as much as I love it.

                    As for Avenger's Campus, I was excited at first, but reading reviews, not so much anymore. One new ride that is the same type as Legoland Ninjago, a ride that while visually cool is a royal pain in the arm to play (I won't wait more than about 15 minutes for that one). We lost four rides (yes, most were ho-hum, but all were cute and well themed), tons of shade, and a much needed water play area for what looks like a sun-soaked city street. Most other rides at Disneyland I am happy to wait 30 minutes or more, but not sure about this one. I was definitely much more excited for SWGE just do the fully immersive theming, though I do wish they would have found a way to add in one more small footprint ride suitable for most ages (I know they cancelled a third ride). Hopefully the final phase and next ride will still happen and happen before we move.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by jish5555 View Post
                      This is what I had brought up a few months back, because the truth is, Disneyland is just not big enough to be a viable vacation destination. This means the out of towners (the ones that were complaining the most about APs) are the vast minority, and unlike APs who were a sure thing, the out of towner visitors were never the ones to make up the vast amount of revenue to the parks, where yes, they'd spend more per visit, but that's a 2-3 day visit with a 50/50 they're not even going to stay at one of the Disneyland hotels. APs, though almost never staying at a hotel, showed up much more often and spent more overall, where in just 3 months, Disney's already seeing a huge decline in revenue, and even after a month of being open to out of state individuals, are still showing a major decline in overall daily revenue, revenue that is required to keep the parks functioning.

                      The biggest issue that Disney and out of towners ignored was that over 80% of locals (locals making up 60% of total park attendance) only went weekly/bi weekly because they could go for a few hours per visit and not even be guaranteed to ride rides, where they're more likely to go for date night, go out to eat, buy merch, etc. The fact Disney was thinking DL would get the same attendance as WDW was foolish mainly because they were trying to use the same mindset for DL that honestly doesn't work. So now that the honeymoon phase is over and every local who was a major DL fan got their fill, most aren't going to go back for another 1-2 months if they have to pay full price since that means they're gonna want to stay the whole day, which since the majority of locals only visited 3-4 hours per visit, means that now, they're far less excited to go as often.
                      #this

                      I am not sure if it has been confirmed that they are making less revenue now but I would definitely believe it and I have said many times AP's can keep the park afloat sans tourists but the other way around I feel is not a viable option. The facts about just how much population live with 90 minutes of the parks is pretty staggering (About 24 million) and the error in relying solely on tourists and desperate fans seems to be exposed more and more each day. We are at a tipping point where the park crowd levels sans AP's are likely at their peak right now. We are in the middle of summer after a 15 months of most Americans being in lockdown and the demand to go outside and go somewhere for entertainment has likely never been higher amongst most people. Yes many are still not vaccinated and are staying safe indoors and many even though they are vaccinated are playing it safe indoors so we are not seeing the full population expressing their pent up desire to go places. We are still I believe though seeing the highest level we could hope for as new people feel comfortable leaving lockdown previous people who left lockdown early are now returning back to normal behavior having gotten their travel bug satiated.

                      Everyday I feel more and more that the Affinity Program (AP) will be announced in late Sept. (after they feel they have sold all the 3 day CA passes they can) and will begin to go on sale on October 1st. I think they will possibly be more limited than before to cause anxiety in people to accept them as is since they will likely be more expensive and provide less than before.
                      Last edited by Starcade; 07-15-2021, 01:44 PM.
                      Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by BasilOregano View Post
                        I doubt Iger will return to the helm, largely because I don't imagine he wants to. He can exert his influence from the outside to force a change if present management makes too big a mess of things, and that's certainly possibly, but that's quite an extrapolation to make from them offering discounts to get people into their less-popular park this summer.
                        I concur. People are moving forward way too quickly towards what they think is "normal" again. We are still quite far from it. The fact the parks are even open at the capacity they are and people are coming in decent numbers while borders are shut, lots of people don't have jobs, and many other things are re-opening is probably already a positive for Disney. The sky is nowhere near falling, and I think people are making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill. Disney is not going to have any inclination on what the true demand for their product is until borders are lifted and international tourism starts again; mainly because that will be the last hurdle before we approach any sort of a new normal tourism economy.

                        If anything I would be far more concerned about the cost cutting, paid fastpass and rumoured outsourcing of jobs than the attendance, that will have a far greater impact on the experience in the long run.

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                        • #32
                          I'm betting on Jan 3 as the first date where the new membership program will be eligible. People are showing up at the parks still. Look at the wait times for the rides. They're about normal - except for FP rides b/c they don't have FPs. The park is nearly as crowded as normal. The only reason I think it looks a smidge less crowded around the Hub/Mainstreet is because FP is gone right now and more people are sitting in lines.

                          Trust me. I want something to come out sooner rather than later, but the fact is people are showing up still. Check out the videos on youtube from the DL vloggers.

                          For anyone who will wait for something better than the CA 3-day offer, just understand that you may have to wait until January.

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by brerphysicist View Post
                            The only reason I think it looks a smidge less crowded around the Hub/Mainstreet is because FP is gone right now and more people are sitting in lines.
                            Wasn't one of the recent chapek initiatives being sold to the public was to get people out of queues and back into the common areas?

                            Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by jish5555 View Post

                              The holiday season is always a guarantee as that's the time of year EVERYONE wants to go to the parks, where people will go for a few days from out of state to visit DL. The time DL really has to worry is Jan-May and Sep, first half of Nov, and first 1-2 weeks of Dec.
                              You missed my point. How Disney does in the Fall/Holidays, depends on the COVID rates in the fall. LA County (which I know Disneyland is not in) just announced another mask mandate for indoors, regardless of vaccinated status.

                              If rates keep spiking up again, and Disney has to go back to complete Covid protocols again, then there is a chance of crowds are not going to show up for the Holidays.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by brerphysicist View Post
                                I'm betting on Jan 3 as the first date where the new membership program will be eligible. People are showing up at the parks still. Look at the wait times for the rides. They're about normal - except for FP rides b/c they don't have FPs. The park is nearly as crowded as normal. The only reason I think it looks a smidge less crowded around the Hub/Mainstreet is because FP is gone right now and more people are sitting in lines.

                                Trust me. I want something to come out sooner rather than later, but the fact is people are showing up still. Check out the videos on youtube from the DL vloggers.

                                For anyone who will wait for something better than the CA 3-day offer, just understand that you may have to wait until January.
                                Just saying "trust me" based on anecdotal evidence from YouTube and ride times (which numerous outlets point to as overinflated compared to actual wait times) isn't enough. If the parks were "nearly as crowded as normal" then there would be no reason to constantly harangue Legacy APs with emails and surveys asking why were aren't coming to the park for merchandise exclusives like before. There would definitely be no reason to launch a discount that has never been offered before in what is literally the busiest season of the year (yes, more than Christmas). Disney has real attendance data--not just YouTubers and wait times--and they're acting on it. If you pay close attention to their behavior here, it's clear attendance isn't remotely close to where they want it to be. "Trust me."

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                                • #36
                                  As a Retiree we have been shut out of using the Silver Pass...UNTIL TODAY. Mon-Thur 8/2-5 & 8/9-12 to get into DLand or DCA but not both. No Park Hopper...I guess the attendance has slowed some.

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by ahert001 View Post
                                    As a Retiree we have been shut out of using the Silver Pass...UNTIL TODAY. Mon-Thur 8/2-5 & 8/9-12 to get into DLand or DCA but not both. No Park Hopper...I guess the attendance has slowed some.
                                    Wow. This is practically unheard of.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      So I'm guessing Disney wants the shoulder-to-shoulder attendance, which was considered their norm in 2019.

                                      I'm not surprised. For all that hoorah about a better guest experience, well....

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                                      • #39
                                        Attendance numbers don’t matter, they are making significantly more off of each ticket than they ever have before and the customers visiting are enjoying the experience more than ever.

                                        They are sending out promos to increase attendance but even the promo prices are better than the previous entry costs they had from APs. This is all a win for disney.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Tapdawg View Post
                                          Attendance numbers don’t matter, they are making significantly more off of each ticket than they ever have before and the customers visiting are enjoying the experience more than ever.

                                          They are sending out promos to increase attendance but even the promo prices are better than the previous entry costs they had from APs. This is all a win for disney.
                                          You don't really think customers visiting are "enjoying the experience more than ever," do you? Just look at the comments of this thread, or the 2-hr wait for mobile food orders and understaffed restaurants. That's just a line Chapek fed the investors to show guests were fine with the state capacity restrictions.

                                          The problem with the profits strategy you point to is that Disney is just completely ignoring it everywhere else. They could make significantly more in hard cash licensing their content to Netflix, but instead they subsidize Disney+ because the strategy of growing a subscriber base makes more sense. Applying the profit strategy there would be like saying "Disney+ subscriber numbers don't matter, because they charge $50/month and that's more than they've ever charged before."

                                          That's obviously not the Disney+ plan, so why adopt it for the parks? Chapek only cares about Wall Street, but even they know consumer loyalty is more powerful than profits. Netflix is the most valuable studio in Hollywood with its $550/share stock price, but they didn't turn a profit until last year. When Wall Street hears "Parks, Experiences, and Products revenue is up, but attendance is down," I guarantee that will have more of a negative effect than a positive one. And if Disney didn't know that on some basic level, then they wouldn't be moving so aggressively to court everyone back.

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