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  • #41
    Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post

    You don't really think customers visiting are "enjoying the experience more than ever," do you? Just look at the comments of this thread, or the 2-hr wait for mobile food orders and understaffed restaurants. That's just a line Chapek fed the investors to show guests were fine with the state capacity restrictions.

    The problem with the profits strategy you point to is that Disney is just completely ignoring it everywhere else. They could make significantly more in hard cash licensing their content to Netflix, but instead they subsidize Disney+ because the strategy of growing a subscriber base makes more sense. Applying the profit strategy there would be like saying "Disney+ subscriber numbers don't matter, because they charge $50/month and that's more than they've ever charged before."

    That's obviously not the Disney+ plan, so why adopt it for the parks? Chapek only cares about Wall Street, but even they know consumer loyalty is more powerful than profits. Netflix is the most valuable studio in Hollywood with its $550/share stock price, but they didn't turn a profit until last year. When Wall Street hears "Parks, Experiences, and Products revenue is up, but attendance is down," I guarantee that will have more of a negative effect than a positive one. And if Disney didn't know that on some basic level, then they wouldn't be moving so aggressively to court everyone back.
    I do. You have to remember the people in this specific forum are Disney’s most hardcore fans and most vocally opinionated. They also are the minority.

    As someone who still has a pass to the parks, I have been a lot over the past few months. The park has never been this empty, the guest experience is incredible. I’ve also received information from my contacts that the same is true from all the guest experience surveys being done. The parks themselves are profitable - just as much as before thanks to the larger fee being collected. Wall Street will love seeing Disneyland is more profitable with less attending - they will just think about how much more profit will be there when the attendance bounces back.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Tapdawg View Post

      I do. You have to remember the people in this specific forum are Disney’s most hardcore fans and most vocally opinionated. They also are the minority.

      As someone who still has a pass to the parks, I have been a lot over the past few months. The park has never been this empty, the guest experience is incredible. I’ve also received information from my contacts that the same is true from all the guest experience surveys being done. The parks themselves are profitable - just as much as before thanks to the larger fee being collected. Wall Street will love seeing Disneyland is more profitable with less attending - they will just think about how much more profit will be there when the attendance bounces back.
      So attendance does matter.

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      • #43
        Disney (allegedly): Attendance doesn’t matter, but here is a discount. Please attend!

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by Tapdawg View Post
          I do. You have to remember the people in this specific forum are Disney’s most hardcore fans and most vocally opinionated. They also are the minority.
          Sure -- if it's an issue like "did including classic cartoon characters on IASW ruin IASW" then yes, I imagine there's quite a bit of difference between the vocal minority opinion here and the regular-people majority opinion out in the world. But if the issue is "they're charging noticeably more money for noticeably less offerings," or "it took me two hours in sweltering heat to get an eighteen dollar ham sandwich," I'm not sure why there would be a distinction.

          I mean, I haven't been to the parks recently and have no insider information, so I'm perfectly prepared to accept that you know something (maybe a lot of things!) which I don't here, but at first glance I'm pretty skeptical? Especially since, as jesser-pie says, management does seem to be acting like they're not happy with attendance?

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          • #45
            Originally posted by Tapdawg View Post

            I do. You have to remember the people in this specific forum are Disney’s most hardcore fans and most vocally opinionated. They also are the minority.

            As someone who still has a pass to the parks, I have been a lot over the past few months. The park has never been this empty, the guest experience is incredible. I’ve also received information from my contacts that the same is true from all the guest experience surveys being done. The parks themselves are profitable - just as much as before thanks to the larger fee being collected. Wall Street will love seeing Disneyland is more profitable with less attending - they will just think about how much more profit will be there when the attendance bounces back.
            As a 20-year passholder who has been to the park twice this summer, I agree. The "guest experience" is changing, to the benefit of the occasional (full-price-paying) guest and at the expense of the local AP/superfan/YouTuber crowd. Because these boards are populated by superfans (including myself), this group has the most to "lose" and also happens to be the most opinionated and vocal.

            When TDA talks about "guest experience," which "guest" do they mean? Not us.

            TDA made a change. Only guest surveys (of people actually in the parks) and quarterly results - not the discussion boards - will reveal the true results. Interesting times...

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            • #46
              Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post

              You don't really think customers visiting are "enjoying the experience more than ever," do you? Just look at the comments of this thread, or the 2-hr wait for mobile food orders and understaffed restaurants. That's just a line Chapek fed the investors to show guests were fine with the state capacity restrictions.

              The problem with the profits strategy you point to is that Disney is just completely ignoring it everywhere else. They could make significantly more in hard cash licensing their content to Netflix, but instead they subsidize Disney+ because the strategy of growing a subscriber base makes more sense. Applying the profit strategy there would be like saying "Disney+ subscriber numbers don't matter, because they charge $50/month and that's more than they've ever charged before."

              That's obviously not the Disney+ plan, so why adopt it for the parks? Chapek only cares about Wall Street, but even they know consumer loyalty is more powerful than profits. Netflix is the most valuable studio in Hollywood with its $550/share stock price, but they didn't turn a profit until last year. When Wall Street hears "Parks, Experiences, and Products revenue is up, but attendance is down," I guarantee that will have more of a negative effect than a positive one. And if Disney didn't know that on some basic level, then they wouldn't be moving so aggressively to court everyone back.
              You beat me to it. I have been saying (probably to the point of annoiance to some) that DLR will always want to fill the parks as dense as they can & the spin that they don't and care about making the experience better through lightening attendance was just absolute road apples on Main Street. They knew crowds would be light so they planted the seed to make it seem like it was part of the plan and then they spun things further to hide their price gouging. This is a play straight out of the struggling CEO playbook. When a CEO spends more time with deflection and false truths than they do with announcing growth of customers and staff you know they are in trouble.
              Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post

                So attendance does matter.
                no, profit does.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Tapdawg View Post

                  The park has never been this empty, the guest experience is incredible. I’ve also received information from my contacts that the same is true from all the guest experience surveys being done. The parks themselves are profitable - just as much as before thanks to the larger fee being collected. Wall Street will love seeing Disneyland is more profitable with less attending - they will just think about how much more profit will be there when the attendance bounces back.
                  I base my customer feedback not only on those on this forum which we all know we are the most critical, but I am basing my opinion more so on the 5 different south OC county households who I know have attended (some were previous AP'ers but not most). Those that had had AP's had let their AP's lapse prior to Covid in the past but decided to return because they were desperate for a local day trip somewhere special. (Of the 6 other families we know that are now LP'ers all have still not gone and refuse to until a new AP program comes about) These guests often included parents and children of various ages from toddler to teen. They all have household incomes above the threshold that some claim chapek is targeting. They 100% across the board said the following:

                  - Crowds seems lighter than normal at times during the day but once you get inline if feels just as crowded as the last time they went prior ( 2018-2019)

                  - Getting food isn't that bad but it still required planning and that part sucks - then more recently getting food has not been a problem but the options are still limited.

                  - Parks feels more crowded in the morning then before but less crowded in the evening.

                  - Cast members are few and far between and the park feels like it's not quite open all the way.

                  - They don't regret going but they wouldn't recommend it to others right now as they did not feel it was worth it in the end.

                  - They will not be going back anytime soon as they got their fix and remembered why they stopped going. (see above)



                  Last edited by Starcade; 07-16-2021, 10:43 AM.
                  Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                    - Crowds seems lighter than normal at times during the day but once you get inline if feels just as crowded as the last time they went prior ( 2018-2019)

                    - Getting food isn't that bad but it still required planning and that part sucks - then more recently getting food has not been no problem but the options are still limited.

                    - Park feels more crowded in the morning then before but less crowded in the evening.

                    - Cast members are few and far between and the park feels like it's not quite open all the way.

                    - They don't regret going but they wouldn't recommend it to others right now as they did not feel it was worth it.

                    - They will not be going back anytime soon as they got their fix and remembered why they stopped going. (see above)

                    The diamond mine's canaries are beginning to sing less loudly. Some are not singing at all.

                    Management, as always, is listening attentively....














































                    Click image for larger version  Name:	tsiolkovsky-with-his-ear-trumpet-ria-novosti.jpg Views:	0 Size:	100.1 KB ID:	8642614
                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                    - Walt Disney

                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                    - Michael Eisner

                    "It's very symbiotic."
                    - Bob Chapek

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Tapdawg View Post
                      As someone who still has a pass to the parks, I have been a lot over the past few months. The park has never been this empty, the guest experience is incredible.
                      Me: Expierences flashback to DCA 1.0 and its' immediate critical fallout, while instrumental Beach Boys music plays in the background.

                      I miss the old Paradise Pier loop...
                      "...but life without cake is no life at all"
                      -Lysithea von Ordelia, Fire Emblem: Three Houses

                      Disneyland: 1997, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2007, 2010, 2015, 2020, 2023
                      WDW: 2006

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Tapdawg View Post
                        As someone who still has a pass to the parks, I have been a lot over the past few months. The park has never been this empty, the guest experience is incredible. I’ve also received information from my contacts that the same is true from all the guest experience surveys being done. The parks themselves are profitable - just as much as before thanks to the larger fee being collected. Wall Street will love seeing Disneyland is more profitable with less attending - they will just think about how much more profit will be there when the attendance bounces back.
                        I just want to point out that your lone ability to frequently visit the parks--a privilege only reserved for Club 33 members--confirms the very premise of this thread. Attendance has never been lower, but you just think it's not a problem. My point is that if Disney agreed with you, there would be no reason to offer unprecedented discounts. Instead they want all the one-time ticket sales, and to have the parks packed to the brim. But that just won't happen without drawing on the repeat visitor crowd that the AP base used to bring. And that's who they're trying to capture in the new (expanded) CA Resident deal. Nevermind the clear self-selection bias associated with guest experience surveys (I myself would only agree to take a survey after a ride/visit if I was in a good mood), but if you've visited the parks as frequently as you say you have, then surely you haven't seen any surveys taken at the overcrowded restaurants.

                        You keep saying profit is what matters, but the exact opposite happened when Galaxy's Edge opened. Iger was legally required to disclose that "attendance was below what they hoped it would be" after Galaxy's Edge opened because those figures are material to investors, yet the stock dropped after that earnings call. Parks revenue increased by 7%, but Wall Street punished them after Iger revealed attendance was actually down 3% for the summer. If you think that same situation won't happen again, then go ahead and bet against past investor behaviors and buy a couple hundred shares right now. That would be a true vote of confidence based on the high satisfaction and record profits you are personally observing.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                          The diamond mine's canaries are beginning to sing less loudly. Some are not singing at all.

                          Management, as always, is listening attentively....
                          Waiting for chapek's team synergy to start recommending they begin a new campaign

                          "Now is the best time to come to the parks because nobody else is!"

                          Even though lines are still magically just as long (as of this typing 11:12am Friday):

                          - Indy 60m
                          - POTC 40m
                          - BTMRR 30m
                          - Space Mtn 60m
                          - Matterhorn 50m
                          - Peter Pan 45m
                          - DLRR 30m
                          - RSR 75m
                          - TSMM 45m
                          - GotG 40m

                          Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post

                            If you think that same situation won't happen again, then go ahead and bet against past investor behaviors and buy a couple hundred shares right now. That would be a true vote of confidence based on the high satisfaction and record profits you are personally observing.
                            It’s not and I am.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              The Shareholders -vs- Customer battle continues. In the end when the shareholders win we all lose because their victory is never permanent and the deaths of corporation after corporation can often be traced to shareholders getting what they think they wanted.

                              "When you extract blood from a stone you end up with blood on your hands and a pile of dust" -Anonymous
                              Disneyland Fan since the 70's

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Tapdawg View Post

                                It’s not and I am.
                                Best of luck! I hope I'm wrong, for your sake.

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                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Spongeocto4 View Post

                                  Me: Expierences flashback to DCA 1.0 and its' immediate critical fallout, while instrumental Beach Boys music plays in the background.

                                  I miss the old Paradise Pier loop...
                                  I agree, though I can acknowledge... one man's trash is another person's nostalgia, LOL.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post

                                    though I can acknowledge... one man's trash is another person's nostalgia, LOL.
                                    Good One
                                    I have to remember that LOL

                                    Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Captain Andy View Post
                                      Honestly when I see those Legacy Passholder emails being sent, I get the sense that Disney is hurting somewhere... One was sent today, and all I could do was roll my eyes because they were marketing the usual which is, "Hey. We're Disneyland."

                                      I can't speak for crowds with a good conscience because the day I went it felt pretty crowded, but maybe Disney is really itching for those shoulder-to-shoulder crowds, or there are days where the park is dead and I chose a day where, well... it wasn't.

                                      To be honest after that visit and at the price I paid, I have no plans to return until another relative drags me through those green gates. With my AP, I always itched to go alone, and pay for a meal, and be all bourgeois with my cocktails, but my July 6th visit left a weird taste in my mouth. I still have mixed feelings about it compared to my previous visits.
                                      I just got back from a 2-day solo trip and the parks were pretty packed. I wasn't too concerned as I thought I could knock out many single-rider line rides, multiple times. Instead, the parks were so packed or understaffed, that I was only able to get in a single ride once on several attractions! For instance, I was at rope drop on Thursday at CA and immediately went to Guardians. It took 50 minutes to get onto the attraction itself! They made several announcements that they only had 2 out of the 6 gantry lifts running and to keep the line moving. It never got any better the rest of the day (or the day before that based upon checking wait times on the app)! When I got off the ride @ 9AM, they had closed the gates and were no longer allowing any more guests to queue up and had a 2 hour wait time posted. The parks are crowded enough as it is. They weren't even allowing Single Riders on Indy because "it was too busy" (which is what several CM's told me throughout the day whenever I checked). Galaxy's Edge is a wide open space dedicated more to selling overpriced merchandise than anything else. Avenger's Campus is the same. There was one garbage can literally overflowing with trash and a bunch of trash piled up around it in the queue for Incredicoaster. Something just felt off about this visit. The MixMagic Fireworks show was cool. I had to throw away a 7AM WS pass because I was BG 66 and by noon that one was still down and stuck at BG 29. I opted to get in a 2nd ride on Rise instead. The character interactions that I observed were lame. Not sure there is much risk of contamination being protected by full costuming in most cases (not counting any character not already wearing a mask such as princesses, etc). I felt bad for the little kids that had to have their picture taken with characters 20 feet away and in the background. Not sure I feel the need to go back to DL anytime soon. I cannot imagine the experience will get any better.

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                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                                        They 100% across the board said the following:

                                        - Crowds seems lighter than normal at times during the day but once you get inline if feels just as crowded as the last time they went prior ( 2018-2019)

                                        - Getting food isn't that bad but it still required planning and that part sucks - then more recently getting food has not been a problem but the options are still limited.

                                        - Parks feels more crowded in the morning then before but less crowded in the evening.

                                        - Cast members are few and far between and the park feels like it's not quite open all the way.

                                        - They don't regret going but they wouldn't recommend it to others right now as they did not feel it was worth it in the end.

                                        - They will not be going back anytime soon as they got their fix and remembered why they stopped going. (see above)


                                        THIS! 100% THIS! (I'm from out of state and have visited 7x since my original 2002 visit). I cannot agree more!

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          I can be fairly critical but I like to balance it with some healthy optimism as well. My recent trip felt crowded but again I didn't feel the waits were crazy (compared to stand by waits at Disney World which pre-Covid were clocking in at sometimes 3 hours). I used the app a lot to make the most of my time instead of aimlessly wandering. This allowed me to have a nice non-rushed pace and also allowed me to achieve much more. I also ended up riding some rides I normally wouldn't do because the lines were short ie. Small World x2.
                                          My course of action the last few times I've tackled the parks are to start in Disneyland and grab coffee first and enjoy all of the Fantasyland rides that I want to. You are able to take your beverage on all of those rides and that kick starts me into my day! From there and with plenty of caffeine, I am able to conquer what's ahead!
                                          I'm also not much of a fireworks or parade person so I utilize that time to hit all of the now empty attractions :-)
                                          I think sometimes things are just a perspective switch, the worst day in Disneyland is still better than a good day at work! I was SO excited for this trip and that was the mindset I carried with me the entire time. You could not have stopped me from smiling if you tried :-D


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