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When do you think the boarding groups will go away?

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  • [Chat] When do you think the boarding groups will go away?

    Looking at thrill data’s website it looks like RoTR has been operating reliably every day with little to no downtime. I doubt Spider-Man would be pulling 4 hour waits or anything without boarding groups.

    When do you all think they’ll go to regular queues? I see Spider-Man ditching the boarding groups much sooner, probably January at the latest. We know it’ll have a regular line during Oogie-Boogie bash. RoTR is obviously more popular and has been open less than a year (actual time open) so i imagine it’ll keep the groups for much longer.
    Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

  • #2
    My guess is until the next E-ticket opens up... could be Mickey and Minne's Runaway Railway, or the Avengers ride in DCA (much farther away). Once there is a new, most popular ride, a regular queue would probably be enough to handle capacity (without Fastpass). It did only take a few years for Flight of Passage to balance out to a regular E-ticket wait time, but they also have much higher throughput than Rise of the Resistance.

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    • #3
      I'm more pessimistic than Alec... I think for ROTR far longer to never, lol.

      Even with the VQ, you have to wait in an actual queue, which can go quite long. I can't imagine that standby line getting any longer. If it does, it has the potential to stretch into Critter Country....? That would be a nightmare to witness.

      WEB Slingers though? Soon.

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      • #4
        Well they've created standby queues with the idea that someday ride reservations will go away or become less of a thing. Honestly I think what they'll do is keep boarding groups and slowly open up standby and that way if you snag a boarding group, great for you and if you don't then at least you have the option to wait for as long as the line is if that's your choice. Right now it feels pretty unfair, especially if you've traveled pretty far and aren't able to get a group each day. On this last trip I struggled to get a group and on one of the boarding groups I got, I got booted because the ride went down for hours that day and I had gotten a 12pm reservation. Forget the 7am boarding groups, those were nearly impossible. I saw people all around me in line trying for the same time I was and not get it, it was pretty heartbreaking honestly.
        I remember when Nemo opened and the waits were easily 3-4 hours and snaked back into Fantasyland. Because I could have cared less about riding it, I saved myself all that time waiting but there are others who are more willing to do so....case in point, all the folks who waited 6-8 hours to get into Avengers Campus.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Quentin View Post
          Looking at thrill data’s website it looks like RoTR has been operating reliably every day with little to no downtime.
          This is very surprising. I thought insiders were saying that RotR continues to have serious reliability issues... especially in terms of how long it takes to start running again after a shutdown. Nonetheless, this is wonderful news if it's correct, and it would certainly point to RotR having a normal standby queue one day...

          I'm not sure about Runaway Railway being the attraction that diverts interest from RotR, though, unfortunately. After all, even taking into account that DHS isn't equivalent to DL considering its limited attraction lineup, it's still instructive to consider that Runaway Railway didn't seem to divert interest from RotR (although it only opened a few months later).

          Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post
          It did only take a few years for Flight of Passage to balance out to a regular E-ticket wait time, but they also have much higher throughput than Rise of the Resistance.
          This is a good point. I thought the FoP standby queue would never normalize, and then suddenly it did!

          Not counting downtime, I was pretty sure FoP had a significantly lower theoretical hourly capacity than RotR (and perhaps the difference between operational hourly capacity is even greater, considering the supposed issues with FoP seats, and again not counting actual downtime). If RotR does indeed turn out to have a lower THRC than even FoP, we're in deep trouble in terms of standby queue length...

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          • #6
            I feel like Boarding Passes have become unnecessary for ROTR. I understand it was for the unreliable tech in the ride. But since the ride's performance has improved, I feel like RotR could handle a lot more people per hour without Boarding Passes.

            Keeping Boarding Passes for Web Singers may be doing more harm than good to Avengers Campus. If the demand for AC is on the wane, then gatekeeping the newest ride, doesn't help the attendence for the land or the park.

            The Boarding Pass process is giving me flashbacks to how World of Color's Fastpass were just meant to handle the crowds when the show began. But 11 years later they have never been removed or discontinued., despite WOC now being over a decade old.

            EDIT:

            Originally posted by IzzyInWonderland View Post
            I remember when Nemo opened and the waits were easily 3-4 hours and snaked back into Fantasyland. Because I could have cared less about riding it, I saved myself all that time waiting but there are others who are more willing to do so....case in point, all the folks who waited 6-8 hours to get into Avengers Campus.
            Aw yes, the summer of 2007. Even in the early morning, I had to wait for 90 minutes() to ride Nemo. The line contained switchbacks and started way back in old smoking area/Fantasyland Autopia. The line also intersected the exit pathway for the Disneyland Monorail.

            It was a mess.
            Last edited by Spongeocto4; 07-24-2021, 09:56 PM.

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            • #7
              I can throw some insider info out there: the boarding groups aren't going anywhere, anytime soon. Right now, Rise has a major issue: capacity. We haven't had a day where we've carried more than 16k on the ride. And our demand is way higher than 16k. If we opened up to just plain old standby, people would be willing to regularly wait in a listed 4 hour queue because we have that kind of demand. It would also suck for everyone involved. You don't want to wait in a 4 hour queue, which will be outside in the heat for around 3 hours of it, and inside some cramped and humid caves for the last hour. I don't want to have to tell you that you're going to have to wait an additional hour or two because the ride went down. Until demand dies down and we gain the potential for normal wait times, no way we get rid of the boarding groups.

              Also, like someone else said, there isn't really space for a longer queue. A couple nights ago, we came back up from a downtime and we called a bunch of groups back to push through what we could. Our line was out past the bridge into Critter Country, so we had Batuuans stepping off planet over there. If we dropped the boarding groups, we'd be looking at a line that would probably have to take over the bottom floor of Hungry Bear before spilling out into much of New Orleans Square, maybe even venturing into Frontierland. It would be a hot mess. Management wouldn't want to pay to keep a line like that staffed. And the other attractions and stores in the area wouldn't take kindly to us impacting their operations. The extended queue for pirates is already chaotic; imagine how that area would look with the Rise queue mingled in.

              Now Web Slingers, that's a ride that will probably get rid of their groups in the near future. The general demand for the land has gone down significantly since opening, and the ride itself doesn't have the same draw that an e-ticket like Rise has. I haven't seen their capacity numbers, but I'm sure that the standby wait will even out very quickly once the groups are gone.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by IzzyInWonderland View Post
                Well they've created standby queues with the idea that someday ride reservations will go away or become less of a thing. Honestly I think what they'll do is keep boarding groups and slowly open up standby and that way if you snag a boarding group, great for you and if you don't then at least you have the option to wait for as long as the line is if that's your choice. Right now it feels pretty unfair, especially if you've traveled pretty far and aren't able to get a group each day. On this last trip I struggled to get a group and on one of the boarding groups I got, I got booted because the ride went down for hours that day and I had gotten a 12pm reservation. Forget the 7am boarding groups, those were nearly impossible. I saw people all around me in line trying for the same time I was and not get it, it was pretty heartbreaking honestly.
                I remember when Nemo opened and the waits were easily 3-4 hours and snaked back into Fantasyland. Because I could have cared less about riding it, I saved myself all that time waiting but there are others who are more willing to do so....case in point, all the folks who waited 6-8 hours to get into Avengers Campus.
                I can't believe I'm advocating for VQ's in this sense....

                The thing with ROTR from what I experienced... the wait after the VQ is still about an hour's wait, and then an additional hour when the ride shut down due to what sounded like an accidental emergency shutdown. I'm not sure if my situation was special in any capacity, but from the looks of it, tat it's worst there's about two hours worth of boarding groups that could potentially be ahead of you. If you take away the VQ entirely, I have no doubts that line will be nothing like we've ever seen. The demand for it is so high (and rightfully so). I think it's a ride so unlike any other that the demand will ALWAYS be high and never tether out.

                I think the VQ is justified in this sense, but the accessibility of these boarding group tickets needs to be ironed out somehow. I kind of wish there was a physical place in the park where there's a set amount of boarding group tickets so those who are not iPhone savvy have a place to go, and another chance to ride.

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                • #9
                  I'll add that even bringing back fastpasses won't work to replace VQ. When Pandora opened, Flight of Passage had both FP (sold out in <10 min exactly 60 days out) and the standby queue. Standby capped out at 300 min regularly and probably was much longer than that. The line impacted every other ride in Pandora and even outside it, just like Bluebird said. It was a mess and most people just stayed away from the area to not deal with it. So what happens is you have a crown jewel ride that not only causes a significant number of people to wait in a queue (and not spend money elsewhere), it's a pain to manage, it affects other parts of the park, AND it actually keeps casual people away from your crown jewel new land.

                  Like others have mentioned ROTR VQ still requires you to come back and wait 35-45 min (i've never waited 60, but totally believe that's possible). I think before Webslingers takes away VQ, they need to fix and theme the backlot overflow area better. It seems like they initially planned on using the large courtyard in front of the land, only to find out some ideas are better in theory than practice, and are now opting to use the backlot. Once you take away the VQ, the backlot queue has to become a standard part of the queue since anything longer than 30 minutes requires use of that area.

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                  • #10
                    Personally, I really don't mind the boarding group thing. Used it twice and it wasn't that bad. It's actually a bit exciting haha. What they have to do is get rid of the dang mobile ordering nonsense . Haha.

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                    • #11
                      Last night my wife made a comment right before bedtime that she worried DLR would require boarding groups for everything soon after I told her about Paris. This evidently triggered a dream I had where not only did boarding Groups not go away but chapek made it so you needed a boarding group to go on ANY ride and they all had to be bought through the app and used surge pricing so if a lot of people wanted ride Space Mountain during a certain hour the BP was like $15 but then when demand was less later in the day it was only $5 and lesser rides like the carousel etc. were all like $2. So in this future chapek led fever dream you had to pay to get in and then ALSO had to pay like the old ticket books. All queues did not have CM's instead they had scanners that opened a turnstile and if you jumped the turnstile like we saw a family try a CM came out of nowhere and escorted them out of the park there was no tolerance and the many signs said as much. Everything was mobile based, ALL food in the food carts were like vending machines where you paid via phone and a window would open letting you grab your food. Once they ran out they would start beeping as they rolled themselves backstage to be refilled. This was annoying as throughout the day you would constantly hear the beeping and see crowds shuffling to make way for them to traverse various areas. Main Street still had CM's though and they were actually seen as an attraction themselves as they all had costumes etc. and you barely saw any throughout the rest of the parks except in a security capacity. Oh and character interactions were screen based so you would stand in front of a screen and Mickey etc would walk up right behind via screen where you could talk interact and then get a picture.

                      In my dream the park was well maintained and crowds were light though?

                      #nightmare
                      Last edited by Starcade; 08-06-2021, 02:12 PM.
                      Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                        Last night my wife made a comment right before bedtime that she worried DLR would require boarding groups for everything soon after I told her about Paris. This evidently triggered a dream I had where not only did boarding Groups not go away but chapek made it so you needed a boarding group to go on ANY ride and they all had to be bought through the app and used surge pricing so if a lot of people wanted ride Space Mountain during a certain hour the BP was like $15 but then when demand was less later in the day it was only $5 and lesser rides like the carousel etc. were all like $2. So in this future chapek led fever dream you had to pay to get in and then ALSO had to pay like the old ticket books. All queues did not have CM's instead they had scanners that opened a turnstile and if you jumped the turnstile like we saw a family try a CM came out of nowhere and escorted them out of the park there was no tolerance and the many signs said as much. Everything was mobile based, ALL food in the food carts were like vending machines where you paid via phone and a window would open letting you grab your food. Once they ran out they would start beeping as they rolled themselves backstage to be refilled. This was annoying as throughout the day you would constantly hear the beeping and see crowds shuffling to make way for them to traverse various areas. Main Street still had CM's though and they were actually seen as an attraction themselves as they all had costumes etc. and you barely saw any throughout the rest of the parks except in a security capacity. Oh and character interactions were screen based so you would stand in front of a screen and Mickey etc would walk up right behind via screen where you could talk interact and then get a picture.

                        In my dream the park was well maintained and crowds were light though?
                        The scary thing is that nothing in that dream is outside the realm of what Disney management would be capable of doing -- except for the last part.


                        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                        designed to appeal to everyone."

                        - Walt Disney

                        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                        - Michael Eisner

                        "It's very symbiotic."
                        - Bob Chapek

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                        • #14
                          I have always assumed they would revamp the boarding group system for a more simple and reasonable virtual line type system to avoid people standing close together in long lines. It would also free people’s time to go spend money on food or other crap instead of standing in line.

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                          • #15
                            It feels depressing to me to think that we'd be going another few years with Rise still having boarding groups. I don't even know how the demand could lower when the ride would continue to be slotted in as an extra special occasion. I know everything has worked against it from a rushed opening to the current state of things but I keep hoping things could normalize in some way.
                            "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

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                            • #16
                              What's depressing is that you pay so much to visit the parks, so to have something that is essentially a lottery system, dangling carrot, is kind of a kick in the shins. I've been on both sides of the coin, one where I've secured a boarding group and one where I have not. And I can honestly say it's a pretty brutal feeling to come a long way to only have the "hope" to "maybe" enjoy this attraction. When I went to Disney World, I only went to Hollywood Studios for one day and therefore just had that one chance to snag a group in the morning when the park opened.
                              I remember the old days at Magic Mountain when there was a new roller coaster and the lines would be 3-4 hours and I waited on several occasions when I was young and had that excitement about a new ride. Rides need to be built to withstand a queue.....boarding groups are horribly exclusive.


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                              • #17
                                Boarding groups may not be going away anytime soon, but things are changing quickly. The most recent edition of Dateline Disneyland is up, and it looks like boarding groups were available for 3 hours after their second wave lottery opened up.

                                If attendance stayed like this, I would say boarding groups would be over with by next year. As many of you know, Disney announced the MagicKey program just before more boarding group availability opened up. Once Keyholders start filling out the parks, I think this will be a rarer sight.

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                                • #18
                                  Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post
                                  Boarding groups may not be going away anytime soon, but things are changing quickly. The most recent edition of Dateline Disneyland is up, and it looks like boarding groups were available for 3 hours after their second wave lottery opened up.

                                  If attendance stayed like this, I would say boarding groups would be over with by next year. As many of you know, Disney announced the MagicKey program just before more boarding group availability opened up. Once Keyholders start filling out the parks, I think this will be a rarer sight.
                                  I checked today at 1pm and Spider-Man boarding groups were still available. I’d say it’s likely it may lose its groups sooner rather than later. Depending on how the return of AP’s impact its demand.
                                  Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

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                                  • #19
                                    The more we discuss these VQ issues the more I think that anyone at TDA who green lights an attraction that cannot service more than 30% of guests per day should have their job given to a more qualified individual. Especially a major attraction. For somebody at the executive level to assume you only need to satisfy 30% of daily guests attendance is not only short sighted but downright ignorant imho. For Ap's it's not terrible as they can simply try again the next time but for half of the "guests" who are visiting for their once a year or once a decade trip this should be unacceptable.
                                    Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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                                    • #20
                                      Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post
                                      Boarding groups may not be going away anytime soon, but things are changing quickly. The most recent edition of Dateline Disneyland is up, and it looks like boarding groups were available for 3 hours after their second wave lottery opened up.

                                      If attendance stayed like this, I would say boarding groups would be over with by next year. As many of you know, Disney announced the MagicKey program just before more boarding group availability opened up. Once Keyholders start filling out the parks, I think this will be a rarer sight.
                                      I AGREE......may not be going away anytime soon
                                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

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