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  • Future of FastPass post-MKey announcement

    Magic Key was announced earlier this week, and there was no mention of Max Pass (photo pass + FP). The silence is deafening.

    It's summer. Crowds are at peak levels. FP has the greatest utility in peak-crowd conditions. So why no FP?

    Disney Parks want to normalize stand-by in anticipation of a major change. Pay-per-FastPass (similar to DL Paris) will be the norm now. It'll make MaxPass look cheap.

    Most APers had FP down to a science and would only wait standby when necessary/advantageous (e.g. no fast pass, short standby line). Those days are gone now. If anything resembling a traditional FP was coming back, it would have been announced with the MKeys.

    Disney is a business, and they won't be leaving money on the table when their competitors (e.g. Universal and Legoland) have expensive line-cutting options that make MaxPass look like chump change. Stand-by will be horrible for the attractions with FP, so I'm hoping it's only a small subset. You'll have to consider if you want to plop down $20 to ride Radiator Springs Racers or wait for 2-3 hours (as opposed to just picking up that free FP that used to be included in the before times).

    This would just continue Disney's trend of devaluing admission to the parks. I think theme parks will adopt the gaming mindset of using micro-transactions to bleed out as much $ from each guest as possible.

    Why are they waiting? Because they want to work out the kinks at a small park - DL Paris - before unrolling it at their bigger parks.

    None of this is based on hard information. This all just hypothesizing based on Disney's silence about FP stateside, while they roll out the pay-per-FP program in Paris. I'm curious to see what y'all think. FP gone forever? Coming back? Pay-per FP? etc.

  • #2
    I agree and I see them trying to see the results from Paris before they finish tweaking the price structure here. But if it proves a failure in Paris we could conceivably see a return to FP/MP here. I do not mind removing FP/MP's completely to be honest as it allows lines to self level and does drop overall wait times for all stand by guests. I liked the pre FP/MP days better imho even though I was an aggressive user of MP's.

    I hope if they do bring them back they do so like Knotts and Universal where they are very expensive and almost double your ticket price or Paris where it's very expensive for a single ride. That way there are fewer users and the effect on lengthening stand by times are minimal. ( though I do not have much faith chapek would limit anything that was such a huge cash grab. )

    I miss the days of not having to use FP/MP and being able to be more spur of the moment instead of on a schedule all day. I visit Disneyland for many reasons and one is to shed my mind of deadlines and schedules which plague me 5 days a week.
    Last edited by Starcade; 08-05-2021, 09:59 AM.
    Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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    • #3
      You're probably right. I could see them waiting a few months until most of the old APs are back onboard, then annoucing the return of fp as a paid option. As noted, APs were probably the biggest/most savvy fp user group, and most dependent on them to make the most of their shorter visits. Since they are also the group getting into the park for the least cost by far, it's a good bet that they'll see paying for a couple fp per visit as still a good deal compared to regular admission. I do hope they include a couple fp with each regular priced ticket though.
      "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money." - ​Walt Disney

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      • #4
        Originally posted by greenalfonzo View Post
        You're probably right. I could see them waiting a few months until most of the old APs are back onboard, then annoucing the return of fp as a paid option. As noted, APs were probably the biggest/most savvy fp user group, and most dependent on them to make the most of their shorter visits. Since they are also the group getting into the park for the least cost by far, it's a good bet that they'll see paying for a couple fp per visit as still a good deal compared to regular admission. I do hope they include a couple fp with each regular priced ticket though.
        I could see them giving one free FP per ticketed guest but requiring payment for any additional FP's. Hook them with a free taste and then charge them for their new addiction.
        Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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        • #5
          I think they're in a 'holding pattern' as far as FP/MP goes. They're going to be looking at how many complaints they get at City Hall/email that there is no FP/MP (or a lack of complaints) and attendance figures to see if there's a drop that might be attributable. Although I don't know how they'd be able to know exactly why Joe or Jane Q Public aren't going back to DL. I suppose they could contact prior AP holders that don't purchase the new MK Passes and ask if FP/MP were reinstated if they'd then purchase. The DLP 'pay per view' thing may factor into 'wait and see', although I can't see that you could equate the majority European guest's acceptance of it with the typical American's acceptance of it.

          I think we need to keep our eye on WDW because it seems that whatever happens there, happens here. Personally, I think they'd prefer not to bring it back at all. I'm sure it would reduce staffing needs in the parks as well as in IT.
          "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Starcade View Post

            I could see them giving one free FP per ticketed guest but requiring payment for any additional FP's. Hook them with a free taste and then charge them for their new addiction.
            This. Sadly, you can even argue that AP crowds are a selling point for paid FP. If lighter crowds produces lighter wait times, then there is less incentive to pay for a line skipping program. The busier Universal gets the more express passes they sell to the point where they cut it off.

            So all guests lose (value for their money) and Disney wins.

            Looking at DLP prices, they range from roughly 9-18 USD per FP. I worry this is going to feel like the return of the ticket books without the return of the lower entrance fee.

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            • #7
              I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but I hope Disneyland Paris fails so Disneyland Anaheim can soar (i.e. not suffer the extra cost of a FastPass.)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Stormy View Post
                I think we need to keep our eye on WDW because it seems that whatever happens there, happens here. Personally, I think they'd prefer not to bring it back at all. I'm sure it would reduce staffing needs in the parks as well as in IT.
                Agreed. I think pay-per-FP would work best in WDW, though. Most guests are there on vacation and would pay to guarantee a ride on their top attractions. I'm interested to see how it shakes out...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post

                  This. Sadly, you can even argue that AP crowds are a selling point for paid FP. If lighter crowds produces lighter wait times, then there is less incentive to pay for a line skipping program. The busier Universal gets the more express passes they sell to the point where they cut it off.

                  So all guests lose (value for their money) and Disney wins.

                  Looking at DLP prices, they range from roughly 9-18 USD per FP. I worry this is going to feel like the return of the ticket books without the return of the lower entrance fee.
                  Good point. Crowding the parks incentivizes the luxury programs like VIP tours and pay-per-FP.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by brerphysicist View Post

                    Good point. Crowding the parks incentivizes the luxury programs like VIP tours and pay-per-FP.
                    Let the masses eat all the bread so the wealthy are forced to eat cake.
                    Disneyland Fan since the 70's

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Starcade View Post
                      I agree and I see them trying to see the results from Paris before they finish tweaking the price structure here. But if it proves a failure in Paris we could conceivably see a return to FP/MP here.
                      This is most likely the case. It would be foolish to go from currently having no fastpass, to re-introducing free fastpass, then to change it again to paid fastpasses.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post

                        This. Sadly, you can even argue that AP crowds are a selling point for paid FP. If lighter crowds produces lighter wait times, then there is less incentive to pay for a line skipping program. The busier Universal gets the more express passes they sell to the point where they cut it off.

                        So all guests lose (value for their money) and Disney wins.

                        Looking at DLP prices, they range from roughly 9-18 USD per FP. I worry this is going to feel like the return of the ticket books without the return of the lower entrance fee.
                        Since the AP is a lower entrance fee, I think that is exactly what we are looking at.
                        "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money." - ​Walt Disney

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starcade View Post

                          Let the masses eat all the bread so the wealthy are forced to eat cake.
                          LOL .....I hate CAKE........But ,I do eat a lot of bread
                          Soaring like an EAGLE !

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                          • #14
                            After going to Disneyland last week, I think it's pretty clear that they need to bring back FP. Lines are physically too long for Disneyland to handle.

                            Pirates was a 25 minute wait (40 min posted) with the line taking up half of the walkway to New Orleans Square. Splash extended far past the end of the queue with a 45 min wait. Space had to utilize Starcade to keep the line manageable, and RSR spilled into Cars Land more than once.

                            I wish they didn't bring it back, because I enjoyed how fast the lines were moving, but I don't see how they could control those lines when the park is at 100% capacity.

                            There is no way that paid FP is going to be successful outside of the $20-30 their going to charge for Maxpass.



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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post

                              This. Sadly, you can even argue that AP crowds are a selling point for paid FP. If lighter crowds produces lighter wait times, then there is less incentive to pay for a line skipping program. The busier Universal gets the more express passes they sell to the point where they cut it off.

                              So all guests lose (value for their money) and Disney wins.
                              I AGREE......
                              I was thinking about the same - "AP" Magic Key's "
                              Is other way get more $ Disney Money Grab $ selling point for paid "FP "
                              Line skipping program
                              Why, I never care for Fast Pass or what call them ,specially paying for it ,
                              matter what Theme Park - Disney=Knottt's=Universal= Ect.
                              Soaring like an EAGLE !

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                              • #17
                                Originally posted by greenalfonzo View Post

                                Since the AP is a lower entrance fee, I think that is exactly what we are looking at.
                                APs won't spend 9-20/ride/visit

                                AP isn't a lower entrance fee, its actually the highest, they simply bought a larger multiday ticket. Same reason the 4th and 5th day on a multiday ticket are a tiny fraction of the first. Marginal utility drops RAPIDLY with each additional day. Disney knows it, the consumer knows it. No one would pay top marginal rate for consecutive days, no one, and that's why it isn't priced as such.

                                Disney wants to capture as much consumer surplus as possible. That's why despite the hews and cries, some form of a pass program will always be with us.

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                                • #18
                                  The Neverland narrative that APs are less valuable than day guests to Disney is more funny now that time has proven that Disney won’t go without a similar program. The parks were barely open 3 months before Disney announced its return. This isn’t even really the thread for it, but people can’t resist complaining about the program that has not even begun. It’s just like old times. Micechat is healing.

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                                  • #19
                                    Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post
                                    The Neverland narrative that APs are less valuable than day guests to Disney is more funny now that time has proven that Disney won’t go without a similar program. The parks were barely open 3 months before Disney announced its return. This isn’t even really the thread for it, but people can’t resist complaining about the program that has not even begun. It’s just like old times. Micechat is healing.
                                    Exactly, they are some of the most valuable customers. Always have been, always will be. It's why every theme park has some sort of membership/AP program. Those programs bring in more dollars per person per annum than almost any other type of ticket. And they do it, year after year, after year, after year...............

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                                    • #20
                                      Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post

                                      It's why every theme park has some sort of membership/AP program.
                                      YEP almost all Theme Park have some kind of a pass cross the country...........
                                      Also
                                      Even National Parks - State Parks - County Parks have pass's
                                      and Museum's -Garden's- Presidential library, and list go on
                                      have "AP"s
                                      Depend's what one and family like doing........AP's can meet the need.

                                      Just a not: Me has a senior- I use ever discount , I can............lol
                                      Last edited by Eagleman; 08-05-2021, 08:24 PM.
                                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

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