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  • #61
    Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post
    Let's compare a disease with sky high infection rates to several with zero to no impact on the day to day lives of North Americans, one of which was almost eradicated almost exclusively because of vaccines. Post of the year here.
    Exactly. Sadly, false comparisons between the impact of Covid and that of other diseases are part of the misinformation that has been repeated in social media (and certain mainstream news media) since early 2020.


    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
    designed to appeal to everyone."

    - Walt Disney

    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
    - Michael Eisner

    "It's very symbiotic."
    - Bob Chapek

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by stovk View Post
      IMO The COVID Vaccine has achieved Fanboyism status and clear-headed thinking and logic are out the window. I'm not going to get drawn into a debate on getting a vaccine or not. But if the argument is "concern and safety" for the guest, just consider the following. Just a mere sample, of things that are "infectious diseases". If it's all about "safety", you're not being honest if you want to pick and choose your disease du jour.

      Bird flu Mortality rate: 60%
      Hendra virus Mortality rate: 57%
      Marburg virus Mortality rate: 50%
      Glanders Mortality rate: 40%
      Hantavirus Mortality rate: 36%
      MERS Mortality rate: 34.4%
      Smallpox Mortality rate: 30%
      Tuberculosis Mortality rate: 15%
      SARS Mortality rate: 11%
      Diphtheria Mortality rate: 10%
      Typhoid Mortality rate: 4%
      H. Influenzae Mortality rate: 2.45%
      Measles Mortality rate: 1.46%
      tell me how to get into a debate without getting into a debate. this post of misinformation clearly states where you fall. go ahead, tell us about the 99.5% survival rate that all the deniers keep trumpeting. I'll wait.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post

        Let's compare a disease with sky high infection rates to several with zero to no impact on the day to day lives of North Americans, one of which was almost eradicated almost exclusively because of vaccines. Post of the year here.
        It is striking how this sort of thing is always -- and I mean always -- preceded with a preamble about how other people aren't as "clear thinking and logical" as the speaker.

        I mean, I'm sure we could all stand to be a bit more humble, and I'm definitely not trying to condescend to anyone, but the degree to which the people whose perception of themselves centers proudly around being "logical, rational, ground reality, fact-based" are exactly the people who none of those demonstrably apply to at all is completely wild. The Venn diagram is just a circle, as the youth say. I'm endlessly fascinated by it.

        Comment


        • #64
          Regardless of the actual percentage of people who survive COVID-19, the virus has killed over twice the population of Anaheim in the U.S. alone so far. Every person who refuses to vaccinate and wear a mask in public runs a high risk of making themself a vector for more death. Why are people okay with this? The best way of reducing the contagion is to a) get vaccinated (which will not cost you a dime) and b) wear the dang masks. These are trivial inconveniences at worst. Why the huge resistance? Someone explain it to me. Make it make sense. And don't get all philosophical with why we "shouldn't be made to" do these things. Tell me why you don't want to do these things. The only reason we have mandates is because people refused when they were asked nicely.

          And while we're at it, maybe tell me why people who are doing their part for personal and public health should have to bend over backwards to accommodate those who won't.
          Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Karalora View Post
            Regardless of the actual percentage of people who survive COVID-19, the virus has killed over twice the population of Anaheim in the U.S. alone so far. Every person who refuses to vaccinate and wear a mask in public runs a high risk of making themself a vector for more death. Why are people okay with this? The best way of reducing the contagion is to a) get vaccinated (which will not cost you a dime) and b) wear the dang masks. These are trivial inconveniences at worst. Why the huge resistance? Someone explain it to me. Make it make sense. And don't get all philosophical with why we "shouldn't be made to" do these things. Tell me why you don't want to do these things. The only reason we have mandates is because people refused when they were asked nicely.

            And while we're at it, maybe tell me why people who are doing their part for personal and public health should have to bend over backwards to accommodate those who won't.
            A. The risk of outdoor transmission is incredibly small (fresh air disperses viruses).
            B. Mask wearing is really only important if you're infected (I haven't been sick since 2019).
            C. The experts say natural immunity is needed to weaken the virus (can't build your immune system with a mask).
            D. We now have treatments available for the virus, making it far less dangerous for the small percentage of the population that is at risk. (I think your "high risk of vector for death" comment is an exaggeration, deaths aren't as common now).
            E. They're itchy and uncomfortable (less fresh air).
            F. As for the philosophical angle you dislike, I think that's a big part of it. We live in a society rooted in rugged individualism, good or bad. I for one didn't mind mask wearing for most of 2020, but I'm concerned that once increased power for government becomes normalized, they won't relinquish that power. Already school boards are talking about masking children semi-permanently, not just for covid, but for any airborne illness they could potentially get. I don't want to live in a country that makes decrees on concealing one's face. A personal hang-up for sure, but you wanted to hear other people's viewpoints.
            Brian the Pooh

            Comment


            • #66
              What about Flu vaccine? Pneumonia? Shingles? Sars? Tuberculosis? Yada, yada, yada. There will always be more.

              At some point we just need to be responsible for ourselves. If someone is scared or in a high risk category, stay at home or take extra precautions. Otherwise, be smart and get on with your life. (Then again, this is not a popular approach here in California)

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Brian PieGuy View Post
                A. The risk of outdoor transmission is incredibly small (fresh air disperses viruses).
                The dispersion rate plummets in a crowded space (such as a theme park whose management seems bent on packing in as many people as possible)

                B. Mask wearing is really only important if you're infected (I haven't been sick since 2019).
                It is possible to be an asymptomatic carrier of COVID for weeks, even the entire duration of one's infection (especially for those who are vaccinated).

                C. The experts say natural immunity is needed to weaken the virus (can't build your immune system with a mask).
                The statement in parentheses would seem to be at odds with Point B.

                D. We now have treatments available for the virus, making it far less dangerous for the small percentage of the population that is at risk. (I think your "high risk of vector for death" comment is an exaggeration, deaths aren't as common now).
                Which is better--to prevent something detrimental from occurring at all, or to try and fix it after it does? Especially given the way healthcare works in this country--anyone can afford the vaccine, because people aren't being charged for it. They are being charged for treatment after the fact.

                E. They're itchy and uncomfortable (less fresh air).
                Why is it more desirable for you to potentially kill 1 in 100 people you come into contact with than to experience mild discomfort?

                I'm concerned that once increased power for government becomes normalized, they won't relinquish that power. Already school boards are talking about masking children semi-permanently, not just for covid, but for any airborne illness they could potentially get.
                Right, because the pinnacle of power over one's fellow humans is *checks notes* making children reduce the rate at which they share diseases. This isn't a power grab--it's realizing that a policy which was adopted in response to a specific situation will also be beneficial outside that situation and hanging onto it.

                I don't want to live in a country that makes decrees on concealing one's face.
                This statement is more revealing than you might think.
                Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

                Comment


                • #68


                  Any place's were there are people !
                  I Still for MASK wearing for my self ,and had my shots
                  and will get booster shot when the time come....
                  I'm up in age......I going stay safe as one can be.....same time ,

                  IMO
                  Soaring like an EAGLE !

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    TDA and Burbank already gave up on its attempt at a vaccine mandate for Anaheim.

                    The deadline for vaccination was supposed to be the first of October but so many people in Anaheim, Burbank and Glendale - including DLR executives - claimed a religious exemption to getting vaccinated that HR gave up. They didnt' even get to the Office & Technical staff - let alone the tens of thousands of union CM's.

                    The TDA execs and park management gave them enough headaches in September over getting vaccines that Burbank told everyone in Anaheim and Orlando to drop it. HR and Legal basically got cold feet over the pushback they were getting from the executives and senior managers - they got too scared to even attempt it with the lower managers and office staff. The union CM's are untouched for now, no vaccine mandate required.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Westsider View Post
                      TDA and Burbank already gave up on its attempt at a vaccine mandate for Anaheim.
                      TDA/Burbank may want to think twice before throwing in the towel:

                      WASHINGTON, Oct 19 (Reuters) - Executives with United Parcel Service Inc (UPS.N), Walt Disney Co (DIS.N) and other companies met with White House officials on Tuesday to discuss President Joe Biden's COVID-19 vaccine requirement plan for private-sector workers, amid concerns it could worsen labor shortages and supply chain woes.

                      The mandate would apply to businesses with 100 or more employees, and would affect about 80 million workers nationwide.

                      Several industry sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the rulemaking process was moving with urgency and they expect the mandate to be formally announced as early as this week. It was not clear how much time employers will have to implement it.
                      Executives with United Parcel Service Inc , Walt Disney Co and other companies met with White House officials on Tuesday to discuss President Joe Biden's COVID-19 vaccine requirement plan for private-sector workers, amid concerns it could worsen labor shortages and supply chain woes.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Karalora View Post

                        This statement is more revealing than you might think.
                        Ah, you think I'm a nefarious scoundrel for believing in individual freedom. Just spell it out if that's what you think.

                        And for the record, I don't believe any of this is "the pinnacle of power", just too much for my liking. And before you dismiss this as an exaggeration, checkout this PBS article "How authoritarianism has spread since the coronavirus pandemic began". Or this one. This stuff is concerning to me, and attacks against my character or the anxiety of others won't stop me from opposing what I perceive as violations of liberty, big or small.
                        Brian the Pooh

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Nah, sweetie, it wasn't the word "decrees" that tipped me off. But I fear we'll get too political for Micechat if we keep this discussion going, so ta.
                          Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Now, I know why....I sill wearing a mask.......even after my shots
                            Soaring like an EAGLE !

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I like Leviathan. Spoken as weak person who has always relied on the kindness of strangers.

                              The only time I ever saw my father give money to a panhandler was in the Disneyland parking lot. Holding a baby, just needed some money for gas...even I was suspect. I was probably 13 - 15, definitely wet behind the ears, but still didn't buy it. I remember my Dad sighing, looking at her so....pityingly,.... but not for the reason she probably understood. It just goes to show what excessive consumerism (indulging in a family vacation) can do to even the hardest of working immigrants. He gave her money, and then gave us kids a little lecture. I don't remember the lecture exactly, but I think it was "sometimes you just have to be a sucker and be kind to people". My gut was that he did it because he felt a bit "rich" after enjoying such a great day. It was very out of character. He had a tough life... WWII refugee camps, deaths, immigration, hard work, ungrateful kids. He was not indulgent back then. But he is a compassionate man.

                              We all can be strong and recognize that in our united strength we can be even stronger when we care for each other.

                              I love my Dad. This has made me start tearing up...

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by nostalgic View Post
                                I like Leviathan. Spoken as weak person who has always relied on the kindness of strangers.

                                The only time I ever saw my father give money to a panhandler was in the Disneyland parking lot. Holding a baby, just needed some money for gas...even I was suspect. I was probably 13 - 15, definitely wet behind the ears, but still didn't buy it. I remember my Dad sighing, looking at her so....pityingly,.... but not for the reason she probably understood. It just goes to show what excessive consumerism (indulging in a family vacation) can do to even the hardest of working immigrants. He gave her money, and then gave us kids a little lecture. I don't remember the lecture exactly, but I think it was "sometimes you just have to be a sucker and be kind to people". My gut was that he did it because he felt a bit "rich" after enjoying such a great day. It was very out of character. He had a tough life... WWII refugee camps, deaths, immigration, hard work, ungrateful kids. He was not indulgent back then. But he is a compassionate man.

                                We all can be strong and recognize that in our united strength we can be even stronger when we care for each other.

                                I love my Dad. This has made me start tearing up...
                                Thanks for Sharing.....Sound like wise man, your Father !
                                Compassionate Man
                                Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by Brian PieGuy View Post
                                  And for the record, I don't believe any of this is "the pinnacle of power", just too much for my liking. And before you dismiss this as an exaggeration, checkout this PBS article "How authoritarianism has spread since the coronavirus pandemic began". Or this one. This stuff is concerning to me, and attacks against my character or the anxiety of others won't stop me from opposing what I perceive as violations of liberty, big or small.
                                  I think it's very obvious you have not read, or not read or understood, any of the links you posted.

                                  It's true that some dictators or quasi-dictators -- particularly Viktor Orban in Hungary -- have used the COVID epidemic to solidify power, using the epidemic as an excuse to persecute their political rivals or to seize control of their nation's media. In zero cases has this ever had anything at all to do with mask wearing and other sensible safety precautions, which have been adopted by almost all major democracies on the planet (and the few who have not have had a staggering number of deaths). In fact, the very same garbage human beings who peddle in the worst anti-vax, anti-mask nonsense are also, not by coincidence, incredibly pro-Viktor Orban. If the rise in authoritarianism and an erosion of democracy is a cause of concern for you, then you should make the effort to understand some basic stuff about it.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by BasilOregano View Post

                                    I think it's very obvious you have not read, or not read or understood, any of the links you posted.

                                    It's true that some dictators or quasi-dictators -- particularly Viktor Orban in Hungary -- have used the COVID epidemic to solidify power, using the epidemic as an excuse to persecute their political rivals or to seize control of their nation's media. In zero cases has this ever had anything at all to do with mask wearing and other sensible safety precautions, which have been adopted by almost all major democracies on the planet (and the few who have not have had a staggering number of deaths). In fact, the very same garbage human beings who peddle in the worst anti-vax, anti-mask nonsense are also, not by coincidence, incredibly pro-Viktor Orban. If the rise in authoritarianism and an erosion of democracy is a cause of concern for you, then you should make the effort to understand some basic stuff about it.
                                    Thanks for the links Basil, I learned a lot.👍
                                    Brian the Pooh

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Hi Brian: as a front line caregiver in the ICU during 2020….it was devastating…..to say the very least. Not enough PPE, equipment, staff. We were all crying over all our Covid patients that died and having to call code blue all day and night. No visitors permitted, even though they were begging , crying to come in. All communications via iPad or the MDs phone, as not enough iPads. ( so adverse to using mobile device at Disney) families had to say goodbye to their loved ones through this, the medical teams had to have conferences over this…..we prayed for a vaccine for ourselves .
                                      still have Covid wings now. Adults and Children…and places if you are pregnant with Covid.

                                      wearing a mask and getting tested as needed is the least one could do. I would prefer that all who could , be vaccinated, but would not have anyone tied down, who doesn’t want one.

                                      I did purchase AP as a happy gift for myself “post” pandemic…
                                      Last edited by InTheRealm; 10-23-2021, 10:24 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by InTheRealm View Post
                                        Hi Brian: as a front line caregiver in the ICU during 2020….it was devastating…..to say the very least. Not enough PPE, equipment, staff. We were all crying over all our Covid patients that died and having to call code blue all day and night. No visitors permitted, even though they were begging , crying to come in. All communications via iPad or the MDs phone, as not enough iPads. ( so adverse to using mobile device at Disney) families had to say goodbye to their loved ones through this, the medical teams had to have conferences over this…..we prayed for a vaccine for ourselves .
                                        still have Covid wings now. Adults and Children…and places if you our pregnant with Covid.

                                        wearing a mask and getting tested as needed is the least one could do. I would prefer that all who could , be vaccinated, but would not have anyone tied down, who doesn’t want one.

                                        I did purchase AP as a happy gift for myself “post” pandemic…
                                        Makes sense. My rebellious nature makes it difficult for me to follow orders (I can't get on board with jaywalking laws either), but I might be able to come around to some of that. I never thought it was humane to not allow visitors to see their loved one's, so I'm sorry you had to enforce that practice. Have fun with your annual pass.
                                        Brian the Pooh

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          this is what i'm not going to Disneyland any time soon. i don't want to be waiting in line for a ride with the knowledge that someone behind/in front of me is hacking up a lung just because they needed to their Disney fix.

                                          Comment

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